#indieweb 2018-01-09
2018-01-09 UTC
# 
tomasparks i've been using brid.gy to backfill my webmentions, but brid.gy only looks at 10 h-feed items at a time :(
# snarfed https://neotoma.io/ is early, but eventually will
# tomasparks it dose if you use u-syndication tag
# tomasparks FB download option is useless
# tomasparks as 95% of the information is missing
# tomasparks bidgy well do more than 10, but you only add 10 new u-syndication at a time
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# tomasparks its a start
# tomasparks I want to use some of the other backfill option for FB, but they needed a FB api acc, witch needed a cell phone no :(
# tomasparks reactivating my twitter acc is a lost cause
# 
@schmarty Your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for December 30th - January… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/950522255670431744 (twitter.com/_/status/950522255670431744)
# tomasparks let trump and his follows use twitter, until twitter goes bankrupt :)
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# 
gRegorLove I'm trying the Facebook export for the first time now. Will make note of anything interesting/helpful.
# tomasparks it wont include your likes or shares
# gRegorLove I'm probably OK with that
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# gRegorLove Happy to have an archive of my pokes, though. Haha
# gRegorLove I'm not seeing microformats, tantek
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# 
[kevinmarks] No microformats from Facebook
# [kevinmarks] Google and twitter have them to some extent
# gRegorLove Pretty thorough export, though. Some statuses have character encoding issues.
# gRegorLove It is odd seeing half the conversation, since ye olde facebook you went to each other's walls and left comments rather than replying in a thread.
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# gRegorLove Nope, unfortunately not.
# gRegorLove This was before in-reply-to. IIRC you basically had the option of sending a private message, or go to their timeline and leave a comment.
# gRegorLove Hah, I'm finding FB messages I never read before.
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# [lowbar77] Ok, so how does a guy get started around here?
# 
Loqi Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the indiewebcamp community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page and other indieweb essentials, all of which are provided step-by-step below https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started
# [lowbar77] cool, thanks
# gRegorLove Welcome, [lowbar77]!
# gRegorLove Do you have a personal site?
# gRegorLove Loqi is our bot that answers questions based on the indieweb.org wiki, btw
# gRegorLove who is Loqi?
# Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/User:Loqi.me
# [lowbar77] Yep, done some web dev before. I like the principles you guys aspire to
# [lowbar77] hang on, I am going to switch laptops, brb
# gRegorLove Nice! What's the next thing you want to do with your personal site?
# [lowbar77] Well, I was thinking about gathering tech news and archiving it on my site. I watch a lot of tech podcasts and read lots of sites, try to keep up with what is new....
# [lowbar77] rather than repeating myself, I was thinking about putting it on my website and then just referring people there...
# [lowbar77] Not sure people will go there, takes a little effort and people are tired these days
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# [lowbar77] I really like the idea that you use the tools you do to bring everything else in.
# [lowbar77] It seems that the big boys (facebook, twitter, and the like) kinda rule all because they have all the people there
# gRegorLove Yeah, syndicating content and then backfeeding responses from those places works quite well.
# gRegorLove You get the benefits of the social network and maintain the canonical link
# [lowbar77] Yeah, well sorry to interrupt what you were doing. Thanks for taking the time
# gRegorLove No worries, that's what we're here for. Feel free to ask questions.
# [lowbar77] well, I have a couple of domains. I have them hosted at a host in Germany. I live in the US
# [lowbar77] right now they are empty, but I keep hearing from Kevin Marks about your group and I decided to check it out
# [lowbar77] I watch him on TWIG
# [lowbar77] Yeah, differences in time zones is a bugger
# [lowbar77] So I have a pretty good background in HTML and some CSS, but API and scripting not so much
# [lowbar77] I can learn just about anything, did some PHP and SQL for a bit, but not a programmer
# [lowbar77] I have a blank slate, I am willing to do whatever.... I just saw some of the syndication tools and was really impressed
# [lowbar77] I have done some Wordpress stuff
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# [lowbar77] I had mocked up some stuff on a wordpress build, but I decided to try GSuite
# [lowbar77] so it got wiped out
# [lowbar77] Cool, I like Wordpress
# [lowbar77] They really have some great templates
# [lowbar77] awesome
# [lowbar77] Sounds like I should connect there with them?
# [lowbar77] Well, I appreciate the guidance
# [lowbar77] ok, dumb question here, how do I connect with that group... I am not so much with slack
# 
tantek Next meetups: Homebrew Website Club https://indieweb.org/events/2018-01-10-homebrew-website-club. Code of conduct: https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct, log https://chat.indieweb.org/today
# tantek got to run for now - but will check the logs later - you can read these online too and see the various channels: https://chat.indieweb.org/today
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "#indieweb
https://twitter.com/csarven/status/950334808793735168" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-01-09 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/indieweb-csarvenstatus950334808793735168
# Loqi [superfeedr] "#indieweb
https://twitter.com/csarven/status/950334808793735168" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-01-09 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/indieweb-csarvenstatus950334808793735168
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# gRegorLove [chrisaldrich] How's your #newwwyears resolution coming along?
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# tantek Facebook << 2018-01-05 Doc Searls: [http://doc.blog/2018/01/05/theHumanSolutionToFacebooksMachineproducedProblemsAlsoWontWork.html The human solution to Facebook's machine-produced problems also won't work]
# Loqi ok, I added "2018-01-05 Doc Searls: [http://doc.blog/2018/01/05/theHumanSolutionToFacebooksMachineproducedProblemsAlsoWontWork.html The human solution to Facebook's machine-produced problems also won't work]" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
# tantek Facebook << 2017-09-15 John Battelle: [https://shift.newco.co/lost-context-how-did-we-end-up-here-fd680c0cb6da Lost Context: How Did We End Up Here?] / Facebook and Google’s advertising platforms are out of control. That used to be a good thing. Now…not so much.
# Loqi ok, I added "2017-09-15 John Battelle: [https://shift.newco.co/lost-context-how-did-we-end-up-here-fd680c0cb6da Lost Context: How Did We End Up Here?] / Facebook and Google’s advertising platforms are out of control. That used to be a good thing. Now…not so much." to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
# tantek Facebook << 2018-01-05 John Battelle: [https://shift.newco.co/its-the-advertising-model-stupid-b843cd7edbe9 Facebook Can’t Be Fixed.] / Facebook’s fundamental problem is not foreign interference, spam bots, trolls, or fame mongers. It’s the company’s core business model, and abandoning it is not an option.
# Loqi ok, I added "2018-01-05 John Battelle: [https://shift.newco.co/its-the-advertising-model-stupid-b843cd7edbe9 Facebook Can’t Be Fixed.] / Facebook’s fundamental problem is not foreign interference, spam bots, trolls, or fame mongers. It’s the company’s core business model, and abandoning it is not an option." to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
# tantek temp silo-quot from 2017-08-26 https://twitter.com/jf/status/901340736234246145
# 
@jf Taking a break from Twitter until January 1st, 2018. (twitter.com/_/status/901340736234246145)
# Loqi [superfeedr] "Untitled" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2018-01-09 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2018/untitled-8
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "For all the joy of the #indieweb, and the pleasure of civil discourse, I am becoming incredibly confused by aspects of micro.blog. There’s the question" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2018-01-09 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2018/for-all-the-joy-of-the-indieweb-and-the-pleasure
cweiske, tantek, jihaisse, treora, strugee, Rev_Illo, [pfefferle], pindonga, [asuh], [chrisaldrich], nitot, Pierre-O, gRegorLove and notabene joined the channel
# notabene Hi
# 
petermolnar hello, notabene
# notabene I was writing an article on the importance of not relying on social networks, and all of a sudden thought "heck, why haven't I ever joined the indieweb IRC?" :)
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# 
[colinwalker] Morning all
# 
@Startup_Adam Are you clueless when it comes to creating your own website? Learn how to start from scratch at the Indieweb Homebr… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/950686096601559042 (twitter.com/_/status/950686096601559042)
# [colinwalker] Will be shortly updating /facebook with the “how to deactivate” info.
# notabene FWIW just wrote an advocacy article here: https://nota-bene.org/Blogging-versus-social-networks
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# [colinwalker] Deactivate
# [colinwalker] Not gone through delete yet as that, ironically, needs you to reactivate to do it!?!
# [colinwalker] @notabene will check that out
# [colinwalker] That’s what I need to add. I’ll also do a blog post on it. Be back later - got some IRL stuff to do.
# petermolnar I've been concentrating on content lately, less much on code
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# [colinwalker] dgold Looks pretty good to me. I’ll just update a bit about what they show you in the “pleading” stage.
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# [colinwalker] The menu has slightly simplified as well. I’ve just done the delete too! There’s no big blue button anymore just a password box.
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# 
[jeremycherfas] I was even more disgusted than usual at FB recently. I decided to follow up an email advising me of a friend’s activities. But I had been logged out of FB and decided I didn’t feel like logging back in. Next thing I know, there’s an email saying “Jeremy, you seem to be having some trouble logging in. Let us help you.”
# [jeremycherfas] No, FB, I know perfectly well what I am doing. And that is, choosing not to log in.
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# [jeremycherfas] I think they knew it was me because I followed the link from the email.
# [jeremycherfas] Oh, now I see zegnat was there ahead of me, as usual
# [jeremycherfas] Then why wouldn’t they just let me back in?
# notabene I wonder if my account is still in their database, I "closed" it in 2006
# notabene hah
# [jeremycherfas] Haha
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# [colinwalker] !tell dgold I’ve made my edits
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "Breaking up is hard to do" by Colin Walker on 2018-01-09 https://colinwalker.blog/breaking-up-is-hard-to-do/
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# Loqi FitBit is a hardware device and service for tracking exercise, sleep, and other physical activity https://indieweb.org/FitBit
# notabene !tell notabene I'm testing Loqi the bot
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# notabene (testing, sorry for the noise, I like to test bots)
# notabene thanks cweiske, sorry for the noise
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# petermolnar days are separated by sleeps
# petermolnar 2 days
# petermolnar 1 day
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# [colinwalker] Good idea. I just wanted to get through the process as quickly as possible and didn’t stop to think about documenting it.
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# [jeremycherfas] aaronpk I was looking at Tom MacWright’s “electrophoresis gel” display of his keystroke data this morning and think what a fine visualisation that might make for steps.
# [jeremycherfas] Yes
# [jeremycherfas] Not sure I want to track keystrokes as it would show how idle I am, but the principle is appealing.
# [jeremycherfas] Garmin uses local midnight and that’s good enough for me. And if a few days are messy, I’m ok with that. But I don’t display steps on my site.
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# [jeremycherfas] I guess you could use sleep start as end of day.
# [jeremycherfas] Three minds with but one thought.
# [jeremycherfas] I don’t log naps, only nighttime sleep. But I track Nap in Exist.
# [jeremycherfas] Long flights cause you the most problems, so just give yourself a pass on any pair of days where a long flight messes up the night.
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# notabene morning, morning…
# notabene (although come to think of it it's always morning somewhere — and this is a glorious thought, somehow)
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# petermolnar having a long nap over a long flight when flying over the international date line - there, I summarised the problem
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# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "TAI" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "TAI is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# 
Zegnat TAI is International Atomic Time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Time
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# [kevinmarks] It annoys me that the step trackers use midnight as I'm often out walking the dogs around then. I suspect most exercise fanatics get up at 6am and are in bed by 10 so don't have that problem
# [kevinmarks] Foursquare also behaves oddly after Sunday midnight but before they close the week's rankings in everyone else's midnight
# Loqi midnight is the arbitrary endpoint of a calendar day https://indieweb.org/midnight
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "noon" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "noon is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# 
dgold e.g. https://is.gd/IjgVJs
# [kevinmarks] There was solar time, then mean solar time, then timezones
# [kevinmarks] If you look on some sundials they have a correction for mean solar time
# [kevinmarks] But it is arbitrary now as we use timezones
# [kevinmarks] No, it can change by several hours by moving a few meters into another jurisdiction
# [kevinmarks] Yes, but it doesn't update the rankings until everyone else's midnight, so you don't get new multipliers consistently
# notabene ("I fudge midnight" — this would do for a very cryptic t-shirt)
# [kevinmarks] UTC
# notabene hehehe
# Loqi timezones are a way to create dependencies in your code on legislative bodies in countries you have never heard of[1] https://indieweb.org/timezone
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "DST" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "DST is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# notabene what is midnight
# Loqi midnight is 00:00, roughly approximate (depending on timezone) to the middle of the night, when the sun is at its lowest point below the horizon https://indieweb.org/midnight
# notabene (funny because DST in France was Direction de la Securite du Territoire, french instance for Homeland Security)
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# [kevinmarks] Google Fit breaks at midnight
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Fit" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Google Fit is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "POSSE to email" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "POSSE to email is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# tantek POSSE to email is /email#How_to_POSSE
# tantek aaronpk, if you come up with a method for how you do your POSSEing to email, perhaps summarize it here? https://indieweb.org/email#How_to_POSSE
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# tantek Twitter << 2017-12-27 NYT: [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/opinion/digital-nazi-hunter-trump.html Confessions of a Digital Nazi Hunter] <blockquote>The great irony of this whole affair is that Impostor Buster was doing Twitter’s job for it. The platform has been notoriously prone to abuse since its inception and has struggled to curb it. Rather than asking Twitter to provide a top-down solution, however, we created a botto
# Loqi ok, I added "2017-12-27 NYT: [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/opinion/digital-nazi-hunter-trump.html Confessions of a Digital Nazi Hunter] <blockquote>The great irony of this whole affair is that Impostor Buster was doing Twitter’s job for it. The platform has been notoriously prone to abuse since its inception and has struggled to curb it. Rather than asking Twitter to provide a top-down solution, however, we created a botto" to the "See Also" section of /Twitter
# [kevinmarks] I thought quill did posse to email
# [kevinmarks] Ah right
# tantek Twitter << 2017-12-19 BuzzFeed: [https://www.buzzfeed.com/charliewarzel/internal-emails-show-twitter-struggled-to-interpret-its-own Internal Emails Show Twitter Struggled To Interpret Its Own Verification Rules While Hunting Trolls] / Emails suggest that verification was never quite what Twitter said it was and that the company was aware it served as a tacit endorsement long before it admitted so publicly.
# Loqi ok, I added "2017-12-19 BuzzFeed: [https://www.buzzfeed.com/charliewarzel/internal-emails-show-twitter-struggled-to-interpret-its-own Internal Emails Show Twitter Struggled To Interpret Its Own Verification Rules While Hunting Trolls] / Emails suggest that verification was never quite what Twitter said it was and that the company was aware it served as a tacit endorsement long before it admitted so publicly." to the "See Also" section of /Twitter
# 
@ChrisAldrich Browser Bookmarklets and Mobile Sharing with Post Kinds Plugin for #WordPress
A simpler #IndieWeb way to post on d… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/950791458339999744 (twitter.com/_/status/950791458339999744)
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# [mail] Hello there
# [mail] I'm in process of setting up my new WordPress indieweb site.
# [mail] I have installed Indieweb plugin with post kinds, bridgy, webmentions etc.
# [mail] With no feedback message
# [mail] When I try to syndicate to Twitter on publishing a new post I get an error that just reads ```Bridgy Error:```
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# [mail] any ideas please?
# 
KartikPrabhu [mail]: welcome!
# KartikPrabhu [mail]: wordpress specific questions are better asked in #indieweb-wordpress there might be more wordpress users there who can help you better
# [mail] "chegalabonga"
# snarfed looks at https://brid.gy/twitter/chegalabonga
# gRegorLove "The ads led users to a website that asked for account information such as their email address and Twitter password, in addition to requesting details about the user's online payment accounts."
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "Why Connecting Hardware with the Web is So Neat" by Eli Fatsi on 2017-10-07 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/VigetInspire/~3/2KRk2yKjey4/
# Loqi [superfeedr] "The Little Schemer Will Expand/Blow Your Mind" by David Eisinger on 2017-09-21 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/VigetInspire/~3/kEBEeBrUdh0/
# Loqi [superfeedr] "The Little Schemer Will Expand/Blow Your Mind" by David Eisinger on 2017-09-21 https://www.viget.com/articles/the-little-schemer-will-expand-blow-your-mind/
# Loqi [superfeedr] "Why Connecting Hardware with the Web is So Neat" by Eli Fatsi on 2017-10-07 https://www.viget.com/articles/why-connecting-hardware-with-the-web-is-so-neat/
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "The #IndieWeb community smartly doesn't rely on email, but if you insist, you can subscribe to This Week in the IndieWeb, a weekly digest of" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-01-09 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/the-indieweb-community-smartly-doesnt-rely-on-email-but-if
# @ChrisAldrich The #IndieWeb community smartly doesn't rely on email, but if you insist, you can subscribe to This Week in the Ind… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/950837992792436738 (twitter.com/_/status/950837992792436738)
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# Zegnat Not sure anyone has linked this here yet, but some names we know have signed this letter to Google re: AMP. http://ampletter.org/
# Zegnat AMP << http://ampletter.org/
# Loqi ok, I added "http://ampletter.org/" to the "See Also" section of /Accelerated_Mobile_Pages
# KartikPrabhu why do you need to make sense of "four separate H1s" ?
# KartikPrabhu oh they are for different languages... why is that a problem?
# KartikPrabhu Zegnat: I am asking why it was confusing? For me the page showed the English version, I never looked at the markup
# KartikPrabhu aah
# KartikPrabhu Zegnat: does not do that for me even with JS turned off
# KartikPrabhu Zegnat: the CSS has display:none on the [lang] atrributes so it seems some CSS is getting filtered
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "Paradigm shifts for the decentralized Web" by Neil Mather on 2018-01-09 https://doubleloop.net/2018/01/09/paradigm-shifts-decentralized-web/
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# gRegorLove mmm, data
# gRegorLove Speaking of /AMP, did anyone see https://amphtml.wordpress.com/2018/01/09/improving-urls-for-amp-pages/amp/ ?
# gRegorLove If they really get rid of the google.com/amp/ URL that's good, though I'm not familiar with the Web Packaging they refer to and how hard it is to implement
# KartikPrabhu the point is there shouldn't be some extra "web packaging"
# 
@mindplaydk @cramforce Just seems like you're going a roundabout way to put the Web back in working order. Give us a content performance policy standard instead, and give us back HTML, please! (twitter.com/_/status/950820993165090817)
# KartikPrabhu yup exactly
# KartikPrabhu that sounds very very fishy
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# sknebel https://github.com/WICG/webpackage/blob/master/explainer.md seems to be the most understandable document