#indieweb 2018-02-17
2018-02-17 UTC
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@wimleers I really want to stop using @Google Analytics on my website. So I triaged the entire @drupal 8 core "Statistics" module's issue queue, to help it get better: https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/drupal?version=8.x&component=statistics.module #indieweb #privacy /cc @timmillwood (twitter.com/_/status/964668303896662023)
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chrisaldrich I hope this portends the goodness I think it potentially does: https://twitter.com/Dries/status/964625341879865349
# chrisaldrich His blog post daid he owns a piece of it in a manner suggestive of some influence.
# chrisaldrich "small investor" were his words.
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grantcodes mifga: https://grant.codes/slides/about/running-away/ for a presentation example
# chrisaldrich I suspect he's also spreading the word to others in Drupal community as the @wimleers quote from Loqi above has Drupal/Acquia CTO reference in his bio.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@wimleers @Google @drupal @timmillwood I remember doing an #IndieWeb presentation at DrupalCamp LA a couple of years ago right after a Piwik (@matomo_org) talk and" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-02-17 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/wimleers-google-drupal-timmillwood-i-remember-doing-an-indieweb-presentation
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@ChrisAldrich @wimleers @Google @drupal @timmillwood I remember doing an #IndieWeb presentation at DrupalCamp LA a couple of years ago right after a Piwik (@matomo_org) talk and it seemed like an interesting #ownyourdata solution at the time.
https://www.drupal.org/project/piwik (twitter.com/_/status/964672909187969026)
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@aj100kblog The IndieWeb outside of Facebook is full of opportunities https://tpl.host/WSKHCMR #entrepreneur #startup https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWEtClGWkAEpyCP.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/964101330079043584)
# chrisaldrich grantcodes: I've noticed you (and some others) post some slides like that, but there's no immediate UI to indicate one should arrow left/right to see other slides. I suppose it's presumed one would potentially just "know", but it could be made more obvious.
# chrisaldrich I remember keithjgrant had something with a visual indicator (as well as up/down funcitonality too) https://keithjgrant.com/talks/decentralized-web/#/
# grantcodes Yeah just hit space. I don't usually publicize them so not too worried about the ui at the moment. The reveal library supports it I just turned it off
# chrisaldrich I do like the progress bar at the bottom as a potential indicator, but it's not visible on the first slide.
# grantcodes Yeah Keith's is the same, he just has the indicator turned on
# chrisaldrich It's pretty slick, especially if you can turn that part of the UI on/off
# grantcodes Oh yeah it's a pretty incredible piece of javascript, it has a million options
# grantcodes But still isn't too complicated
# chrisaldrich I missed it earlier, what's it built in?
# chrisaldrich What is a presentation?
# Loqi A presentation or slide deck is an online version of the visual portion of a demonstration typically presented in person at a conference, workshop, or other event https://indieweb.org/presentation
# grantcodes reveal.js
# chrisaldrich what is follow?
# Loqi follow is a common feature (and often UI button) in silo UIs (like Twitter) that adds updates from that profile (typically a person) to the stream shown in an integrated reader, and sometimes creates a follow post either in the follower's stream ("… followed …" or "… is following …") thus visible to their followers, and/or in the notifications of the user being followed ("… followed you") https://indieweb.org/follow
# chrisaldrich Howdy GWG!
# chrisaldrich There are two "follow" post examples on the /follow page, but it's never been really documented as a /posts#Kinds_of_Posts type.
# chrisaldrich Is anyone else doing this?
# chrisaldrich GWG, have you considered it as a type for Post Kinds?
# chrisaldrich I was just monkeying around with an idea here: http://boffosocko.com/2018/02/16/following-sarah-mundy/
# chrisaldrich It could announce that you're following someone, send them a homepage webmention, and provide some potential UI for making it easy to follow them as well.
# chrisaldrich I haven't played with any of the Microsub toys yet, but I suspect it might have something along these lines built in too?
# chrisaldrich The black follow button on that page is courtesy of SubToMe.org
# chrisaldrich It would be cool if SubToMe would parse a web page and find Social Silo presences (via rel-me perhaps) and provide those as options too...
# chrisaldrich Something like that, yes.
# chrisaldrich Web actions might also be a piece of the puzzle too.
# chrisaldrich Yes, they don't seem to be as widely supported as things like webmentions or micropub.
# chrisaldrich To me a follow post seems like a cross between a note and a bookmark, but it should ideally make it easier for others to follow that person too.
# chrisaldrich If it could also automatically add someone to my OPML (or other subscription list functionality) that would be cool too.
# chrisaldrich I've been considering figuring out a way to create a javascript bookmarklet that dovetails with WordPress' old links manager
# chrisaldrich but as you know, my javascript is even worse than yours...
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# chrisaldrich I'm not sure, but am open to other ideas.
# chrisaldrich Though WordPress got "rid" of the link manager, it's still very functional and I find it pretty useful.
# chrisaldrich You're playing the /WWTD game? :)
# chrisaldrich It's a two part sentence based on the current state of the art:
# chrisaldrich Create a post to indicate when I started following/subscribe to someone/something (perhaps a podcast) and make it easier for others to do the same.
# chrisaldrich And subsequently add that subscription to a master (preferrably portable) list (OPML) that I can use in multiple readers.
# chrisaldrich I'd rather it all originate on my site (POSSE). Though I suppose that a reader might be able to do this in a microsub related workflow, but still post to my site perhaps via micropub?
# chrisaldrich I'd prefer not to build something for indicating my following someone on Twitter, for example, as I'd rather encourage people to post to their own site.
# chrisaldrich That would be ideal, but I feel like it's unlikely that a large numbers of readers might support it in the near term.
# chrisaldrich The /SubToMe concept seems like a reasonably decentralized means of doing it, but if it had a micropub method to also make a follow post?
# chrisaldrich The ideal is to make my list of subscriptions portable (as OPML does) so that I can move from one reader to the next if I choose, or if different readers offer different experiences that I want to take advantage of.
# chrisaldrich And in the IndieWeb parlance, I may not want someone's firehose feed. I might just want their "articles" feed for example.
# chrisaldrich Yes, that could work well too.
# chrisaldrich Then I'd need a parser with a possible OPML output to dump into readers? or something to put into a microsub type of workflow.
# chrisaldrich Getting readers to support such a follow feed may be the harder piece. :)
# chrisaldrich It would potentially mean needing a microformat for a follow feed? Or could we reuse the bits from h-card?
# chrisaldrich Build an h-feed of h-cards that include u-urls for the sites I'd be following?
# chrisaldrich there is a u-follow-of but I don't think many are using it. And if we could get away without having yet another microformat...
# chrisaldrich Stepping away for a minute... brb
# chrisaldrich back...
# chrisaldrich With an h-feed on my entire site going back forever with h-cards, one could forseeably create a follow feed of everyone I've ever mentioned on my site
# chrisaldrich Yes, having a u-follow-of or something similar would be useful
# chrisaldrich How far back would parsers potentially go into an h-feed if one had follows going back a decade?
# chrisaldrich And how to properly handle unfollows?
# chrisaldrich Or are we getting ahead of ourselves?
# chrisaldrich Though it could be interesting if I could create a feed of people who've appeared in anything I've tagged on my site with a particular tag...
# chrisaldrich The two examples on the /follow page use either u-x-follow-of or u-follow-of
# chrisaldrich or a more generic follow-of?
# chrisaldrich Does Post Kinds add the appropriate u- or p- depending on where the piece lands or is it more specific?
# chrisaldrich Oh, indeed!
# chrisaldrich In fact, I could have sworn I'd enabled the "follow" kind manually on my production site and used it at least once before. Apparently I haven't, but I also don't see it on either of my two test sites either.
# chrisaldrich For a WP Post Format, "link" also seems to me to be the most appropriate too. Your thoughts?
# chrisaldrich so 'property' => 'follow-of' in https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/blob/master/includes/class-kind-taxonomy.php#L445 ?
# chrisaldrich I used a footprint icon in the wiki... thoughts on an easy icon for Post Kinds Plugin?
# chrisaldrich That feels pretty solid. I was also thinking of variations of arrows, but yours seems better.
# chrisaldrich These were the couple of test posts I'd made before via "categories": http://boffosocko.com/category/social-stream/follow/
# chrisaldrich GWG: What makes the most sense for the URL? The homepage (which advertises an h-feed, RSS, Atom, other) or an actual feed link?
# chrisaldrich Particularly if you're subscribed to a subsection of a persons feed, say just notes instead of checkins?
# chrisaldrich Maybe we could push someone to add /read or /listen to /post-type-discovery, particularly since so many using your Post Kinds Plugin could be using/sending those types of webmentions?
# chrisaldrich I suspect there are more examples of sites using those than are listed in the wiki.
# chrisaldrich And I always feel awkward sending webmentions for those types when most sites don't consume them or display them properly.
# chrisaldrich The interesting part is that if you make a change to Post Kinds Plugin along the way, hundreds of sites immediately fall in line.
# chrisaldrich Does Post Kinds require a template for follows to actually display something at http://boffosocko.com/kind/follow/ for example. I manually enabled them and tried one, but get no output there.
# chrisaldrich My listens look like this: http://boffosocko.com/kind/listen/ but I'm typically adding an <audio> field to embed the actual .mp3 file.
# chrisaldrich I used to add it into the Summary/Quote field in Post Kinds before you began filtering out HTML there...
# chrisaldrich Post Kind listens could potentially have a media field and the parser could "find" them automatically for display. That would be useful.
# chrisaldrich In practice I find that a lot of podcast pages use third party apps that embed proprietary players, so maybe 25% of pages don't have a findable .mp3 file on them.
# chrisaldrich Adactio may have more data on this for the machinations that Huffduffer jumps through to find .mpe files.
# chrisaldrich There are also a fair number of either indieweb podcasts or microcasts that having a better supported "listen" webmention workflow would be nice.
# chrisaldrich As I'm looking at some of my /listen posts from over a year ago, i'm noticing some missing data that may have happened during a change in Post Kinds. I'll have to go back and fix some of them to bring them into line....
# chrisaldrich It may be for the better as I think a lot of them had a lot of html in the Summary field and is likely why the data may have been stripped out?
# chrisaldrich GWG: Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the templates for Post Kinds use the "Featured Image/Site Icon" field yet do they?
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# @aj100kblog The IndieWeb outside of Facebook is full of opportunities https://tpl.host/NMT6YS4 #startup #leancanvas https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWNoVKVW0AAs6D8.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/964729469104803840)
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@jjdelc Testing offline posting from #micropub client
. #openweb #indieweb https://jj.isgeek.net/2018/02/16-075938-am/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWOPp4GW0AUm-Po.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/964772698206294017)
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@johnroberstorey @skoop you got me looking @ rancher a while back. POSSE is Indieweb - post to your site and auto syndicate to twitter, etc. (twitter.com/_/status/964775524781273088)
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# @jjdelc Testing offline posting from #micropub client
. #openweb #indieweb https://jj.isgeek.net/2018/02/16-075938-am/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWOpeWVXkAAYKIL.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/964801087764090880)
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Zegnat Hmm, did anyone link this yet? Good reason to own all your data, including just notes you take: https://mjtsai.com/blog/2018/02/16/simplenote-outage-due-to-dmca/
# chrisaldrich With some rudimentary tweaks and very basic template, a follow list/feed: http://boffosocko.com/kind/follow/
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# chrisaldrich Not quite what I want it to be, but it's a start.
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[mrkrndvs] [chrisaldrich] interesting work. I prefer 'follow' as opposed to liking a site or listening to a podcast. P.S
# [mrkrndvs] are the images at the top of your posts added as Featured Images?
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[colinwalker] @zegnat That’s *very* interesting and something definitely doesn’t smell right. A worrying precedent.
# chrisaldrich mrkrndvs, most of them are Featured images, yes.
# chrisaldrich I am considering how I might use the image field within Post Kinds to potentially add photos into those templates, though GWG may beat me to it.
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[kevinmarks] For following lists/feeds xfn style could be worth doing too, as that is still there in many sites (I think WordPress still has it for blogrolls, but it is less prominent)
# [kevinmarks] Also, have a look at the activity streams vocab for follow/listen verbs too
# chrisaldrich thanks kevinmarks.... I've got also got a separate following page here with xfn and OPML output: http://boffosocko.com/about/following/
# chrisaldrich but thought I'd also experiment with follow posts which might later be parsed into an OPML file for export to feed readers.
# chrisaldrich You don't happen to have something up your sleeve that will already munge data like that do you? ;)
# chrisaldrich I for the following page, I swiped the WP list manager functionality from ages ago and fed it out into a page instead of the more "traditional" sidebar widget.
# chrisaldrich I like that I can take the OPML file that it puts out and use it to subscribe to the OPML feed in feed readers like Inoreader. That way when I make additions to my site, my feed reader picks them up automatically.
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# chrisaldrich GWG and I were chatting earlier and it seemed simpler to create follow posts that could then be later parsed (as a feed) into an OPML file.
# chrisaldrich I'm happy to hear other options/ideas as well.
# chrisaldrich we also discussed the idea of u- and p-follow-of, which are only documented on the /follow page to my knowledge.
# chrisaldrich I think GWG uses p- forms on many of the microformats within Post Kinds Plugin, though there are some that are u-. I'd defer to your better judgement Zegnat though.
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# chrisaldrich That's what I suspected, though I know GWG is tweaking Post Kinds these past few weeks and over the next few days. I'll let him make the ultimate decision and likely follow along, but thought I'd experiment a bit until then.
# [kevinmarks] The original Technorati code did opml/xoxo transformation. I think both of them are potentially overkill for a follow list, and opml is particularly badly designed as everything is attributes.
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# chrisaldrich Overkill is certainly an issue... we all need a better indieweb way of following/subscribing. Perhaps microsub will fix all of our problems?
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# chrisaldrich how is it 4am?! Goodnight indiewebz.
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@Atrioc -> Facebook wants fewer "meme" images, changes algorithm to favor video. -> Meme pages turn images into long static videos. -> Facebook filters out static video as spam. -> Meme pages put floating triangles over everything to cheat the filter. THIS IS THE GREAT WAR OF OUR AGE https://twitter.com/Atrioc/status/964229260087980032/video/1 (twitter.com/_/status/964229260087980032)
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@francesbell @bonstewart 2/ #engagemooc ... that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it. I have been writing and thinking about #resistance as a digital/critical literacy and am encouraged by actions such as https://personaldata.io/ https://ourdataourselves.tacticaltech.org/ https://indieweb.org/POSSE https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/02/how-to-build-your-own-private-smart-home-with-a-raspberry-pi-and-mozillas-things-gateway/ (twitter.com/_/status/964881787120910340)
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@mapkyca Pushed a bunch of @withknown changes: translation hooks for templates, PHP 7.2 compatibility, refresh/remove option for link previews, a couple of bug fixes, and Gettext support. #indieweb #known (twitter.com/_/status/964919106372882433)
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[jeremycherfas] @Mapkyca++
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[cleverdevil] He’s been doing really great work on Known. It’s very much appreciated!
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snarfed aww thanks aaronpk? you mean the UI on https://granary.io/ ?
# [cleverdevil] That sounds great.
# [cleverdevil] Once there is support for Twitter usernames and lists, I think it'd make a great addition to the Together UI.
# [cleverdevil] Though, I suppose I could already add my entire Twitter timeline through granary.io.
# snarfed ideally https://twitter-atom.appspot.com/ , but either
# [cleverdevil] Hmm, when I try to add the html+mf output from granary in Aperture it says "No feeds found" at the URL.
# [cleverdevil] Yeah, it works from Together.
# snarfed (background in https://snarfed.org/2013-07-09_twitter-atom-is-back )
# [cleverdevil] Hah, when I try to load my Twitter feed in Together the whole screen goes blank.
# grantcodes Hmm I think I am assuming existance of a property that doesn't exist
# [cleverdevil] // a wild grant appears //
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# grantcodes It'll be the same error you got with the instagram feed
# grantcodes If either of you are able to run it locally in dev more you should get the full error
# grantcodes I don't think it should be too hard now, I think I fixed issues with running locally vs in production
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# chrisaldrich GWG++ for the flexibility and extensibility of /Post_Kinds_Plugin http://boffosocko.com/kind/chicken/
# chrisaldrich tantek: he had a /WWTD moment
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KartikPrabhu don't we all
# chrisaldrich I just realized that by creating a /chicken post the way I did, I now have a chicken feed. I'll wait until I have more to propose the experimental microformat c-feed.
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# chrisaldrich LOL!
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# [kevinmarks] Talking of siloed notifications, I picked up te iPad for the first time in a week, and found an imessage conversation that I would have thought would be an SMS one
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@schmarty Your ~ 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for February 10th - 16th, 2018. https://martymcgui.re/2018/02/17/181444/ (twitter.com/_/status/965002959720452097)
# @schmarty This episode marks a full year that I've been creating weekly audio summaries of the @indiewebcamp newsletter! Thank you for listening! I'd love any feedback that you have. Also, if you'd take a moment to leave a rating and a review wherever you get your podcasts, that'd be 💯! https://twitter.com/schmarty/status/965002959720452097 (twitter.com/_/status/965003895356510210)
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "Marcus Povey on Twitter: "Pushed a bunch of @withknown changes: translation hooks for templates, PHP 7.2 compatibility, refresh/remove option for link previews, a couple of bug fixes, and Gettext support. #indieweb #known"" by Jonathan LaCour on 2018-02-17 https://twitter.com/mapkyca/status/964919106372882433
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