#indieweb 2018-02-26

2018-02-26 UTC
electronicmaji, tantek, wolftune, KartikPrabhu, yar, [eddie], [miklb], friedcell, snarfed, radicaledward102, renem, johannh, thrrgilag_, AngeloGladding, barpthewire, kupad, cweiske and jeremycherfas joined the channel
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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Zegnat Good morning jeremycherfas, good morning IndieWeb
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jeremycherfas Hello Zegnat.
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Zegnat Ooh, I like that podcast domain jeremycherfas, haha!
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Loqi nice
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jeremycherfas You know what Roman Mars is always telling us; As soon as you have an idea, sometimes even before, you have to have a domain for it.
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Zegnat !tell eddie I just did a brain dump of marking up the app you use to post and added your site to the prior art. Let me know if you have any more thoughts! https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/h-entry-using-property
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat If anyone knows any other prior art to websites showing what tools were used to make posts, please add!
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Zegnat Didn’t Twitter use to do this too?
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aaronpk Twitter still does somewhere I think
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cweiske <meta name="generator" content="my own hands" />
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cweiske http://cweiske.de/
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Zegnat Not on a per-post basis though, cweiske ;)
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cweiske if each post has an own page, then you have that
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Zegnat I meant there doesn’t seem to be a generator on your blog post pages
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Zegnat Looks like Twitter hasn’t been advertising their “via” for years now: https://thenextweb.com/twitter/2012/08/28/twitter-longer-displays-client-tweet-posted-web-emphasizing-first-party-reading-experience/
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aaronpk Weird I thought I remembered seeing it in one client relatively recently
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aaronpk It's still in the api anyway
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Zegnat That article says the design guidelines tell apps to not display it. But I guess the design guidelines have been changed a few times in the last years ;)
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jeremycherfas Zegnat, some of the apps that interact with the little silos pnut and 10C do this, but I think it s more a function of the app than of the silo. What exactly do you want documented?
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Zegnat jeremycherfas, I would like a post’s parsed microformats to show what app/tool was used to create said post. Several people are already displaying this information, but it is never part of the parsed post.
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Zegnat As an aside to this, systems that use the microformats object as the storage for their posts (like Sink) could then also store the application in that object rather than using extra sidechannels for it
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jeremycherfas Ah. As far as I know, neither of those silos implement microformats yet.
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Zegnat Not really about the microformats at this stage. Just collecting examples
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Zegnat See https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/h-entry-using-property#Prior_Art
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jeremycherfas OK. Well, next time I notice one I will try and capture the source.
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Zegnat Appreciated! :)
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Zegnat I think it is not hard to show that publishing what tool you used is new, we also got some IndieWeb websites documented now. The big question is what property name makes the most sense. That is what is keeping me from putting it in Sink right now.
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aaronpk in p3k I store it as "client_id" because that's the IndieAuth URL of the app that made the post
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jeremycherfas My two cents opts for using.
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theReal33mhz Good morning. o/
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jeremycherfas Is that you?
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theReal33mhz pnut has just a little sprinkling of microformats, and the API includes source.id, source.link, source.name in posts and messages to say what app made it.
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theReal33mhz It's me!
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jeremycherfas Well, hello and welcome.
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Zegnat That makes sense in your usecase aaronpk. But not sure that makes sense for microformats as a whole. (Not to mention underscores are an illegal symbol.)
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Zegnat theReal33mhz, interesting! Do you happen to have a link to a public post that could be used as example?
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jeremycherfas Talk of the devil!
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jeremycherfas Thanks for being here.
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Zegnat What is pnut?
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Loqi pnut is a short-messaging social network silo in which messages have a limited length, and you can follow folks, and be followed by folks https://indieweb.org/pnut
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Zegnat Found one. Documenting
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jeremycherfas Macchiato, with is an iOS app for 10C, displays the originating client. I'll see if I can grab an example.
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theReal33mhz Great.
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jeremycherfas Better yet, I'll invite jws in here to do it. I can't see how to get the necessary out of iOS, because #iamnotadeveloper.
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Zegnat Take a screenshot? Does 10C have URLs for its posts?
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jeremycherfas Yes. https://social.10centuries.org/#203905 is one that was published by the client Macchiato. But that does not show on 10C itself.
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jeremycherfas Screenshot coming to you zegnat via DropBox
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Zegnat theReal33mhz++ for the pointer https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/h-entry-using-property#Pnut
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Loqi thereal33mhz has 1 karma
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Zegnat Oof, that 10C URL is js;dr?
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jeremycherfas Oh dear. Sorry about that. I emailed you a link to my screenshot.
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Zegnat Yep, I got the screenshot on Dropbox :) I’ll see how I document this.
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Zegnat jeremycherfas, the screenshot is from the Macchiato app as well?
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jeremycherfas Yes. Cappucino is a web app for 10C. But the permalink I sent you does not display client, and I'm not sure any of the web apps do.
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Zegnat jeremycherfas, thanks! https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/h-entry-using-property#10Centuries
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jeremycherfas Very meta!
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Zegnat I am slowly learning that people want screenshots and links. So that’s how I am documenting now :)
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jeremycherfas Zegnat++ for meticulous documentation
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Loqi zegnat has 83 karma in this channel (176 overall)
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[manton] For anyone who sends Webmentions to Micro.blog ([eddie], [aaronpk]...) I'm experimenting with a change this morning to add @username to incoming mentions so that they look more consistent with other replies. I think this'll help any confusing in the timeline.
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[eddie] Sounds good! That’s a great solution, [manton] I was conflicted because I didn’t like how my replies didn’t match existing replies but I didn’t want to put @-mentions all over my site
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Loqi [eddie]: Zegnat left you a message 3 hours, 42 minutes ago: I just did a brain dump of marking up the app you use to post and added your site to the prior art. Let me know if you have any more thoughts! https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/h-entry-using-property
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[eddie] manton++
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Loqi manton has 37 karma in this channel (40 overall)
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[manton] Cool. Yeah, you shouldn't have to add the username yourself in these cases. Although if you do include a link to the username in the post, it won't try to add it again.
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[eddie] Awesome! Very nice
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[kevinmarks] generator is the Atom term: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287#section-4.2.4
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[kevinmarks] apparently RSS asa well: https://pythonhosted.org/feedparser/reference-feed-generator_detail.html#reference-feed-generator-detail-href
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[kevinmarks] So I could add this to unmung if we have a agreed markup
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[kevinmarks] re vero: http://orbitaloperations.cmail19.com/t/ViewEmail/d/1B72DF75601AC2EB2540EF23F30FEDED/6381983141E8A2A40F8C96E86323F7F9
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[colinwalker] [manton] That’s a brilliant change. If it pans out I’ll probably do more replies on my blog.
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[manton] Thanks!
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[tantek] I use the text “using” for referring to the authoring app, been “BBEdit” since 2010-001
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Zegnat Yours was among the first examples I documented [tantek] :)
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Zegnat I think I decided to try BBEdit as a plain text editor because of that line, actually
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snarfed [tantek]: i've always wondered why you include that in every post when it never changes
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snarfed i'm guessing not evangelism
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gRegorLove Good morning, indieweb
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Loqi gRegorLove: tomasparks left you a message 2 days, 2 hours ago: you website has a server error
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tantek good morning #indieweb
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tantek snarfed, transparency. as in I'm still using a native text editor to write my posts, rather than an actual posting UI
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snarfed ok...?
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tantek it was supposed to be temporary until I built my post authoring web UI 😂
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snarfed i'm still curious why to put it on each individual post, when lots of other similarly relevant info isn't
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snarfed heh ok
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snarfed anyway. not a big deal.
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tantek what do you consider similarly relevant?
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snarfed falcon could be one
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tantek (originally I was motivated by what Twitter displayed on tweet permalinks of the app name used to author the tweet and send it to Twitter's servers)
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snarfed sure
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snarfed vive la difference!
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tantek right, /Falcon would appropriate if it had web UI for authoring, rather than just POSSEing / display
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tantek all the examples to date (AFAIK) are the *authoring* apps, not the serverside mechanisms that syndicate / display etc.
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tantek (probably dating back to the Twitter usage)
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tantek which I'm not sure is the same as legacy meta "generator" semantics FWIW
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tantek wow this is a bit more dev, especially the format / syntax discussions, even if they're based on real world UI (as they should be). moving to #indieweb-dev (a bit slow this morning)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Microsub bridge" https://snarfed.org/microsub-bridge
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aaronpk !
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snarfed no no no, just a design sketch
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snarfed (and survey of major readers' API support)
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tantek wat
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aaronpk Nice
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KartikPrabhu the most noteworthy thing in there is that there are only 5 readers :P
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: there are tons of readers, right? http://www.replacereader.com/ . i've just only surveyed APIs from five
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes, I was only being cheeky
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[cleverdevil] [snarfed] should consider adding the Fever API, which many desktop and mobile reader apps support.
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[cleverdevil] (Even though Fever itself is dead).
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snarfed [cleverdevil]: yup, i'm familiar, except only one of the major hosted reader services i looked at supports it, miniflux, which is small
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[cleverdevil] Fair enough 🙂
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tantek what is Fever API
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Fever API" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Fever API is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat What is Fever?
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Loqi Fever was a self-hosted, proprietary feed reader that is no longer developed or sold as of 2016-12-24 [1] https://indieweb.org/fever
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[keithjgrant] What is Vero?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Vero" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Vero is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[keithjgrant] hm. Anybody know anything about that one? https://get.vero.co/vero
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[keithjgrant] oh, looks like there's a little in #chat from yesterday
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sknebel Vero is https://vero.co, an Instagram-like social network gaining some publicity in 2018-02, which claims to go for a model sustained by yearly fees and fees from in-app product sales instead of normal advertising models ("claims to" since it is for now free).
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Loqi ok
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tantek I keep seeing more IG folks advertise their Vero, on their IG
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Zegnat Vero << http://orbitaloperations.cmail19.com/t/ViewEmail/d/1B72DF75601AC2EB2540EF23F30FEDED/6381983141E8A2A40F8C96E86323F7F9
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Loqi ok, I added "http://orbitaloperations.cmail19.com/t/ViewEmail/d/1B72DF75601AC2EB2540EF23F30FEDED/6381983141E8A2A40F8C96E86323F7F9" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Vero
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Zegnat That was kevinmarks’ link from earlier
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sknebel seen a few mentions of it from artists on Twitter too
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rainbow-zsh !tell jeremycherfas I saw your message on 10C. Responding re: authoring tool attribution in #indieweb-dev, since that’s where discussion appears to have migrated.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jeremycherfas] !tell rainbow-zsh Thanks. I’ve just come from there.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [jeremycherfas]: rainbow-zsh left you a message 32 minutes ago: I saw your message on 10C. Responding re: authoring tool attribution in #indieweb-dev, since that’s where discussion appears to have migrated.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Some Fairly-Recent Must- and Should-Reads..." by J. Bradford DeLong on 2018-03-05 http://www.bradford-delong.com/2018/03/current-links-1-1-1.html
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theReal33mhz What is the difference between p-content and e-content? I see refs to p- but not a definition.
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "difference between p-content and e-content" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "difference between p-content and e-content is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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theReal33mhz what is p-content
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "p-content" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "p-content is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk -> #indieweb-dev for markup questions
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theReal33mhz thanks
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[keithjgrant] Well there is this thread making the rounds regarding Vero. Not sure how accurate these claims are, but it's unsettling
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[keithjgrant] https://twitter.com/pasql/status/968168493521784832?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E1
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@pasql 🤔 VERO is built by a squad of Russian Developers FYI https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/DW-gCCcXcAA00eY.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/968168493521784832)