#indieweb 2018-03-05

2018-03-05 UTC
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[snarfed] ah yes. it's https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/798
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Loqi [snarfed] #798 publish: handle Jetpack lazy-loaded images
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aaronpk Oh what? No way, I’m not updating my parser to deal with that
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[cleverdevil] Barf.
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[kevinmarks] this is where using <img_jetpack> AMP style would actually be good.
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Loqi [kevinmarks]: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 53 minutes ago: "assumption that the programmer is the prototypical user" is not the point of selfdogfood though I can see how that could be a misinterpretation (rather than strawman) and perhaps that is worth clarifying
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Loqi [kevinmarks]: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 52 minutes ago: the real life dogs example is a good criticism of the verb / usage of "dogfood" in general as a poor analogy, perhaps worth documenting in a Criticism section on /dogfood ?
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aaronpk Monocle looks so good on my iPad, and works better than IRC and I’m super excited about it!
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Why we built Known" by Ben Werdmüller on 2015-12-08 https://werd.io/2015/why-is-known-the-best-way-to-solve-your-community
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[cleverdevil] 😄
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[eddie] That’s awesome aaronpk!
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Freeing Myself from Facebook" by Jonathan LaCour on 2018-03-05 https://cleverdevil.io/2018/freeing-myself-from-facebook
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[cleverdevil] Welp, fully documented with code!
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[cleverdevil] Also, thanks to [aaronpk]++ for Micropub and advice, [snarfed]++ for granary and advice, [eddie]++ for encouragement 🙂
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tantek whoa indeed!
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KartikPrabhu [aaronpk]++ for Micropub and advice ( from [cleverdevil] )
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Loqi aaronpk has 547 karma in this channel (1581 overall)
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KartikPrabhu [snarfed]++ for granary and advice ( from [cleverdevil] )
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Loqi snarfed has 302 karma in this channel (363 overall)
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KartikPrabhu [eddie]++ for encouragement 🙂 ( from [cleverdevil] )
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KartikPrabhu [eddie]++ for encouragement 🙂 ( from [cleverdevil] )
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Loqi eddie has 19 karma in this channel (47 overall)
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KartikPrabhu there!
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[cleverdevil] I wonder why Loqi didn’t see my messages.
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KartikPrabhu [cleverdevil]: the ++ only works in the beginning of a sentence
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KartikPrabhu for example Loqi++ does not work
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KartikPrabhu Loqi++ does work though
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Loqi loqi has 64 karma in this channel (449 overall)
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@cleverdevil I’m really enjoying using Together from iOS for reading and posting on the IndieWeb: https://cleverdevil.io/s/A94HmEbBLALplpcALmAc.mov (twitter.com/_/status/970506774464917505)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "I’m really enjoying using Together from iOS ..." by Jonathan LaCour on 2018-03-05 https://cleverdevil.io/2018/im-really-enjoying-using-together-from-ios
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tantek wow I didn't realize FB had this option (see screenshot) https://twitter.com/mochimochiart/status/969728804452257798
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@mochimochiart Ok thanks Facebook for reminding me...... I guess.... piece of shit https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXUrNJ-XcAEurd2.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/969728804452257798)
nitot, wolftune, cweiske, barpthewire, [pfefferle], KartikPrabhu, jihaisse, Pierre-O, [mrkrndvs], jihaisse_, Zegnat, botka, matigo, [gerwitz], friedcell, nitot_, adactio, catsup and jeremycherfas joined the channel
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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GWG Morning
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Loqi good morning
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GWG Anything going on?
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jeremycherfas Are you travelling GWG?
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GWG How'd you guess?
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jeremycherfas Not IW-wise, for me. At least, not unless I manage to speed through my day's "real" work.
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jeremycherfas Timezones!
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GWG I thought you might be following my website
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jeremycherfas Only in NewBlur and I haven't opened that yet for my morning catch-up.
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GWG I have been up since 3:30AM local.
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jeremycherfas Yuk.
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GWG I am once again checking in at places. I only do that on the move
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jeremycherfas Hang on, are you still at Logan?
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jeremycherfas Seems awfully early for a flight.
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GWG 5:30 departure.
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jeremycherfas I feel for you. Travel safely.
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GWG Hopping to NYC, then going straight to work for the day
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GWG I am just disappointed I didn't get farther in linking all the sensors in my house to my website.
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GWG All I got to was the setup for a new repository
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jeremycherfas Don't be. I recently bought an Ikea LED panel that is my only "thing". It operates via wifi of some sort. I have no need to know whether it is on or not, because I can see it if I walk into the kitchen.
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GWG I could do that, but I want my temperature and humidity sensors. I just intend to future proof
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GWG Also I run location services through there.
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GWG It's simpler than Compass.
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GWG I never understood fully why people post their mobile battery level on their site but this could have me doing that too.
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sknebel good morning!
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jeremycherfas It is good to learn by doing. I should do more of that myself.
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petermolnar jeremycherfas: IKEA smart is zigbee, for which I'm not completely happy; they should have gone z-wave
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jeremycherfas To be honest, I'm not sure how smart my LED panel is. All I know is that it has a wireless controller that I had to pair. And I don't yet see any need for more.
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GWG I have a combination of zigbee, zwave and wifi devices
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GWG Takeoff
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@yatil @bastianallgeier *cough* IndieWeb *cough* :-) (twitter.com/_/status/970619255166328832)
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@paulrobertlloyd @bastianallgeier You might want to checkout Sunlit, which is a promising IndieWeb alternative. Coming very soon… http://www.manton.org/2018/01/sunlit-2-0-demo.html (twitter.com/_/status/970622935936401408)
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petermolnar whoever writes "indieweb alternative" doesn't understand indieweb.
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sknebel ?
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petermolnar oh
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petermolnar English and it's grammar structure
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petermolnar it's not an indieweb alternative, it's an X alternative under indieweb
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jeremycherfas Or it is a noun-phrase, in which IndieWeb is acting as an adjective.
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aaronpk 😂 I definitely read that tweet wrong too
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jeremycherfas I'm not disagreeing it is ambiguous ...
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petermolnar btw that 'coming very soon...' screams for an 'under construction' gif :D
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petermolnar I was surprised to see how much noise an ancient geocities site generated over the weekend on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16505244
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Loqi [rpeden] Show HN: My embarrassing personal website from the 90s
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skippy looking for the first time at the wordpress indieweb plugin. wow that's a lot of css.
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aaronpk Interesting point about tumblr in that thread
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aaronpk The author's tumblr permalink of a blog post can be customized completely, while people reading tumblr can see a bunch of blog posts in a row in a standardized layout in the dashboard
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GWG skippy, only to cover 500 silo icons for rel.me
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GWG The actual CSS is minimal
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skippy are you using it, GWG?
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GWG And wrote that part
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petermolnar aaronpk: the tumblr dashboard is essentially a reader app
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GWG There's a flag to disable it.
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aaronpk yeah exactly
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skippy GWG: perhaps a dumb question, but does the wp indieweb plugin work nicely in a multi-site setup? multisite requires plugins to be activated network-wide before they can be activated on individual sites.
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skippy i guess i'm asking if the indieweb installer of the various additional plugins handles that scenario well? or should one manually install and activate all the requisite plugins without using the indieweb installer?
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[miklb] skippy I have multisite and so far haven’t had any issues with my main site
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[miklb] but already had a lot of the plugins installed, so not sure about the IW installer
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@swentel Killed the webmention_io module, new module at https://github.com/swentel/indieweb : minimal microformats (more coming soon) and http://brid.gy publishing in it! (https://realize.be/notes/1219) (twitter.com/_/status/970694946796777472)
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[cleverdevil] Good morning, IndieWeb!
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aaronpk 🌅
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KartikPrabhu is that toast? ^
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aaronpk it's a sunrise haha
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Loqi awesome
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skippy [miklb] i'm still trying to understand what the plugin does, versus just adding markup in my theme manually?
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chrisaldrich skippy: the indieweb installer mostly adds material for rel-me as well as an h-card widget. The rest is just an installer.
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tantek chrisaldrich: is that an FAQ somewhere? probably should be
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tantek and/or made very clear in the plugin docs
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chrisaldrich I suspect most programmers would skip it and install everything manually.
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chrisaldrich It does nicely act as a menu heading in your admin UI to conglomerate all the other plugin menus underneath though.
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tantek chrisaldrich: I think the point of giving it some actual immediately useful functionality is that no one would have to skip it or even consider doing so
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tantek because even that ("should I skip it?") is unnecessary cognitive load on getting setup
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chrisaldrich It's been a continual question of what the physical functionality of that plugin is and what it does (aside from the installer portion).
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chrisaldrich It's much more useful to a gen2+ person, particularly for rel-me
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tantek chrisaldrich, how much maybe a continual question, but non-zero hasn't been
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tantek because back when it was "
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tantek "just" an installer, it confused everyone, and upset most
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tantek we already have that data from 2015 attempts at getting people to install / use it.
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chrisaldrich It is still mostly an installer and has some reasonable information/documentation within it. But it's also changed a reasonable amount since 2015 and has a better curated list of what it suggests.
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chrisaldrich I suspect now it's a more savvy gen1 user like skippy who's going to look at the internals to see what it is/does that's going to ask his question.
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chrisaldrich Others should just be able to install, set up and go.
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skippy where are the generations described? I forget what the differencesd are
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chrisaldrich what is generations?
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Loqi Generations in the context of the IndieWeb refer to clusters of potential IndieWeb adopters in a series of waves that are expected to naturally adopt the IndieWeb for themselves and then help inform the next generation https://indieweb.org/generations
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skippy thanks!
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chrisaldrich On some sites I've set up the installer to get things moving and installed quickly and and then removed it after setting up separate rel-me and h-cards.
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chrisaldrich I could see it being reasonably useful for the admin UI menu functionality on a multisite install.
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skippy i'm not afraid of digging into the guts of things as needed. I like to know what's happening, generally. As such, is the installer recommended? Or should I use the individual plugins to get a more thorough understanding of what each does?
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skippy admin menu is a good point. thanks.
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chrisaldrich skippy, the installer will point you to the individual plugins in a simpler/quicker fashion (and make sure you don't missing something useful).
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skippy :thumbsup:
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@sdepolo Own your domain &amp; your destiny. #IndieWeb can set you free from being a slave to social media. http://bit.ly/2FWthX8 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXi1bcOUQAApx8I.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/970725205373960192)
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@adactio Website owners of Brighton—it’s Homebrew Website Club this Wednesday at 6pm in the @Clearleft office. Come along and we’ll work on our personal sites together. https://indieweb.org/events/2018-03-07-homebrew-website-club#UK https://adactio.com/notes/13537 (twitter.com/_/status/970727267352576000)
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Zegnat ping ancarda ^^^ ?
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ancarda I can be there for 6:30? Possibly slightly later
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ancarda Hopefully that’s ok?
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ancarda Right, when I get back, I’ll have to get my IndieAuth working, as I think it’s broken, then I’ll RSVP
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Zegnat I think it’s drop in. E.g. billed as “just show up”. So shouldn’t be a problem if you are an half hour late. Otherwise, check with Jeremy :)
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rev3rse treora: ohai
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rev3rse has anyone seen any interesting mashups of IW protocols / components and DAT?
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snarfed rev3rse: i don't think so, sorry. https://indieweb.org/Dat
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snarfed feel free to brainstorm!
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Zegnat I feel like kevinmarks might have been looking at adding some IndieWeb things to Fritter ...
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Zegnat What is Fritter?
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Loqi Fritter is a P2P Twitter-like app accessible over Dat https://indieweb.org/Fritter
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snarfed yeah lightly. https://github.com/beakerbrowser/fritter/issues/3
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Loqi [pfrazee] #3 Mentions
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rev3rse ah thnx snarfed Zegnat :)
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chrisaldrich jimpick was also at a recent indiewebcamp and was playing around in those areas
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chrisaldrich who is jimpick?
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jimpick i'm jimpick! :-)
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chrisaldrich rev3rse had asked a question about overlap with IW and dat above that you might be able to help out with
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Zegnat Aww, didn’t Loqi know jimpick or is Loqi having troubles?
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Zegnat Who is Zegnat?
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Loqi Martijn van der Ven is a long-time web tinkerer living in Sweden. Pronouns: he or they. https://vanderven.se/martijn/ https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se/martijn/
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KartikPrabhu loqi looks at /irc-people
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jimpick do i need to register with loqi somehow?
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Zegnat jimpick, add yourself to https://indieweb.org/IRC_People if you want Loqi to know who you are
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Zegnat That’s also how all these fancy photos show up in the logs: https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-03-05#bottom
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: maybe Loqi should prompt people to add themselves to /irc-people if a "who is" question fails?
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aaronpk that's probably a good idea
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KartikPrabhu something like "could not find X. If you are X add yourself to /irc-people"
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jimpick who is jimpick
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Loqi Jim Pick is a developer living in Vancouver, BC, Canada https://indieweb.org/User:Jimpick.com
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jimpick yay
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Loqi 😄
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jimpick i had a wiki page, but i wasn't on that list
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chrisaldrich or loqi could look for a template page and read dfn on resulting link?
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chrisaldrich though not always the case the people use template name to match irc name
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rev3rse jimpick: chrisaldrich: just curious if anyone has done any cool experiments- seems like der might be gold in dem hills... but not sure :)
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jimpick it's definitely where my interests are ... i gave a demo with dat at indieweb summit in portland last summer. it's on youtube
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jimpick i just posted my latest dat experiment in the #dat channel
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jimpick >> looking for testers: https://codemirror-multicore.glitch.me/
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jimpick here's the announcement from fritter https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ge5StWxr/
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jimpick i'm going to go another version with gentler onboarding so that somebody that doesn't know about dat or beaker browser might understand what's going on
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tantek sounds more dev-level jimpick, perhaps better for #indieweb-dev?
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jimpick did you try it?
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tantek I couldn't even parse through the instructions on that pastebin - very plumbing / jargon heavy
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tantek even that's dev-level
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jimpick if you click the link, and then click "publish", you've made a dat-based website
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jimpick i need to develop the right language to explain this to newbies
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jimpick that's why i need to do a new version. if it's devel level, i've failed bad
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chrisaldrich jimpick, the trouble is that codemirror page seems like a wall of code, so not too friendly to gen2+
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jimpick yep, that's why i wrote in the announcement that i will be doing another friendlier version
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jimpick what i've learned from sharing my initial prototype is that even "html" people are turned off by showing them an html editor with no explanation
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rev3rse jimpick: that seems pretty neat
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jimpick simpler isn't necessarily better
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jimpick hmm, not sure that the demo is even working now ... perhaps too many people tried it out?
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chrisaldrich jimpick, do put a link to your experiment into the /Dat wiki page so that others can find it and play in the future as well.
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jimpick will do!
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jimpick i want to add some more templates to it ... it would be nice to do an indieweb-compliant profile builder, for example
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rev3rse jimpick: demo worked, I had to d/l and compile Beaker browser to test. cool stuff
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rev3rse so, is it off topic to talk about Dat (as per jimpick's project) in here? cc: tantek ?
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KartikPrabhu rev3rse: if it is about having your own website/data then it is on topic
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KartikPrabhu if it gets really techincal the maybe #indieweb-dev is better
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rev3rse jimpick: so what will happen to that Dat that I created with your tool?
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Loqi [indienews/de] New post: "Interview mit Aaron Parecki" https://notiz.blog/2015/07/23/interview-mit-aaron-parecki/
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rev3rse jimpick: like IIRC, to add/edit a Dat you need private key to it, right?
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tantek rev3rse: in general we try to encourage discussions of protocols, standards, and other plumbing to be in the dev channel, and actual user impacts / user features in indieweb
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tantek more details here: https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels
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@dysalexi ok, testar lite posse https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/970763200668012547)
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tantek rev3rse: for example your question of essentially, what will happen to my content that I created? is appropriate here, because users do care about where their content goes, how can they be sure to keep it around (per /longevity) and even is there anything special they need to do to back it up, or move it from one host / site / domain to another
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rev3rse gotcha ;)
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Loqi [indienews/de] New post: "IndieWordPress – WordCamp Frankfurt" https://notiz.blog/2016/09/23/indiewordpress-wordcamp-frankfurt/
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jimpick rev3rse ... it needs some more explanation, for sure. the private key for the dat you create is stored inside your browser, so only you can edit it in the future
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jimpick as long as you don't clear your browser storage, it can live forever
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jimpick as far as sharing out into the peer-to-peer network, the glitch app works as a gateway, and there's another server on aws that mirrors anything that is published ... i'm going to make that more clear and also optional in case people want to publish private content. they can run their own mirroring servers in that case
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rev3rse jimpick: gotcha, I finally saw the dropdown with Export in the bottom and installed and created a local Dat and imported key... nifty
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jimpick i haven't made any effort in this version to explain basic dat ecosystem literacy topics ... like how to use hashbase, datbase.org, etc. ... in the "user friendly" version, i'll add that
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rev3rse jimpick: but so initially the prvkey *only* gets written to a browsers localstorage- that's cool?
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jimpick technically, it's in indexeddb, but yeah, basically the secret key stays secret
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jimpick in the long run, people are going to want to use multiple browsers to edit their stuff, so i'll have to figure out some way to share across browsers
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rev3rse why multiple browsers?
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jimpick most people have a cell phone, and a desktop
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rev3rse ah right, thought you meant on same device
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jimpick since i'm a develop, a have about a dozen browsers on two machines ... i can never find bookmarks unless i share them
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jimpick i have to head out for an errand ... i can answer more questions in a bit
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Loqi [indienews/de] New post: "Amber Case über Privacy und das IndieWeb" https://notiz.blog/2014/02/13/amber-case-ueber-privacy-und-das-indieweb/
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rev3rse Loqi: why are you posting news from 4 years ago?
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aaronpk notiz.blog seems to be sending webmentions for old posts
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rev3rse ah
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Loqi [indienews/de] New post: "HowTo: WebMentions for WordPress" https://notiz.blog/2014/01/28/howto-webmentions-for-wordpress/
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rev3rse choas. madness. when bots ruled the earth.
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rev3rse s/choas/chaos/
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[kevinmarks] I have a version of my site on dat
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[kevinmarks] It's surprisingly easy for a static site
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rev3rse [kevinmarks]: whats the dat:// ?
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rev3rse what do we call the address for a Dat instead of url? The "hash" ?
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chrisaldrich rev3rse, you need the beaker browser to open dat:// links I think
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sknebel it's still a url
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taravancil rev3rse: some people call them
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taravancil "dats" other ppl call them dat URLs
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rev3rse yes, I have beaker browser running :)
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rev3rse i'm purely talking form a user-experience common speech- should Dat ever get popular
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chrisaldrich rev3rse: in case you (or others) are unaware, taravancil is one of the leads behind Beaker Browser and Dat.
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rev3rse ooo I was unaware, hi taravancil- you have made an amazing thing :D
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taravancil rev3rse: so glad to hear you're having fun with it :-)
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chrisaldrich taravancil, are you selfdogfooding it to run your own personal website on?
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taravancil yep! dat://taravancil.com works
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taravancil i wrote about my publishing flow here https://taravancil.com/blog/how-i-publish-taravancil-com/
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rev3rse taravancil: how did you generate the vanity dat URL?
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taravancil the beaker dev branch has also been my default browser for months, i'm all in on dogfooding :-)
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taravancil rev3rse: we piggyback off of DNS using this module https://github.com/datprotocol/dat-dns
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Loqi [datprotocol] dat-dns: Issue DNS lookups for Dat archives using HTTPS requests to the target host.
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rev3rse ah, I see... clever. except if you let your domain reg expire it will go away I assume?
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chrisaldrich taravancil: if you get the chance, you should document your site at /Dat or /Beaker to help others follow your lead.
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taravancil rev3rse: correct, but the dat:// URL that the vanity URL points to will still be up
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taravancil p.s. i don't want to spam this channel with beaker stuff, so i'll point out that we're in #beakerbrowser if anyone ever wants to chat there
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chrisaldrich taravancil: I wouldn't call it spam if it applies to building websites. See tantek's note/convo above. Though if it gets too technical, perhaps #dev is a better channel.
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taravancil chrisaldrich: i'll keep that in mind
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[tantek] Welcome taravancil!
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[kevinmarks] It won't follow dat://kevinmarks.com because I don't have https, but the .well-known redirect is there
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Loqi [indienews/de] New post: https://notiz.blog/2015/05/01/indieweb-im-deutschlandradio/
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[kevinmarks] so dat://b7930c5e0d55aee8aeb6fa996c8e782e2e9b99b62bf25cab0be7ae195f56a158
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[kevinmarks] 3600
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[kevinmarks] the 3600 is the ttl
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Loqi [indienews/de] New post: "Mein Indieview für Deutschlandradio Kultur (@breitband)" https://notiz.blog/2015/05/03/mein-indieview-fuer-deutschlandradio-kultur-breitband/
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Loqi [indienews/de] New post: "IndieWeb – Die Daten sind wir!" https://notiz.blog/2015/04/02/indieweb-die-daten-sind-wir/
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Loqi [indienews/de] New post: "Die Renaissance des Pingbacks" https://notiz.blog/2013/07/08/die-renaissance-des-pingbacks/
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Loqi [indienews/de] New post: "The rise of the IndieWeb" https://notiz.blog/2013/06/18/the-rise-of-the-indieweb/
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@swentel Finally got to expose webmentions in a block. Getting slower and slower to alpha state! #drupal #indieweb (https://realize.be/notes/1223) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXj3TF3VMAAlOq0.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/970797630862262272)
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[kevinmarks] You can proxy dat urls with datbase.org eg https://datbase.org/dat://b7930c5e0d55aee8aeb6fa996c8e782e2e9b99b62bf25cab0be7ae195f56a158
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tantek [kevinmarks]: is that a reasonable way to auto-link dat: URLs for "any browser" compat? (perhaps this is more #indieweb-dev)
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tantek if so could you add ti /auto-link#Brainstorming ?
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[kevinmarks] It kind of is, except that they still end up being long and ugly.
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tantek [kevinmarks] it's a start
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sknebel I'm not sure if they support it as an official gateway or it's just there for now (e.g. ipfs has official gateways you're supposed to be able to rely on)
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sknebel I haven't seen it advertised as such
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KartikPrabhu what is ipfs?
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Loqi IPFS is short for InterPlanetary File System, potentially a static site storage method, yet does not appear to be selfdogfooded, and thus should be considered risky and experimental at best; also apparently unrelated to NASA’s actual Interplanetary Solar System Internet (SSI) being built on their Disruption Tolerant Networking https://indieweb.org/IPFS
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KartikPrabhu how many planets is IPFS on?
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KartikPrabhu what is planet?
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Loqi A planet, in the context of the indieweb, and blogs/feeds for even longer, is a site that aggregates feeds/updates from a variety of sources, typically focused on a particular topic or community https://indieweb.org/planet
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KartikPrabhu hmm
matigo joined the channel
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tantek now has that Beastie Boys song stuck in his head
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[kevinmarks] If you autolink the dat url to the http proxy the it won't work in actual dat capable browsers
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tantek so that should be client-side auto-linked then
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tantek so you can skip it if the browser supports dat
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tantek like a polyfil