#indieweb 2018-03-23

2018-03-23 UTC
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@adamprocter I don’t see how a government can take to task data gathering of a corporation when that’s the buisness model. Seems odd. We need to make decent alternatives paid or otherwise. #webmakers #indieweb #bbcqt #eff (twitter.com/_/status/976982502140194818)
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@web_dasein I just downloaded a 40.8MB ZIP file of all the data that Facebook claims I've uploaded over the years. I'm considering switching to the POSSE content-posting model from now on, so that I own my content instead of Facebook. Unfortunately, it's still... https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/977010044624670720)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-03-23.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Test pay using Quill" by John Evdemon on 2018-03-23 http://www.evdemon.org/2018/03/23/test-pay-using-quill
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@malcolmblaney @Scottludlam great article Scott, check out http://indieweb.org for more data sovereignty efforts! (twitter.com/_/status/977046405217902593)
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chrisaldrich I just remembered what we all forgot to do: https://twitter.com/CaseyNewton/status/976917947342929920 :P
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@CaseyNewton Did you hire a PR firm to promote your unknown social network to capitalize on Facebook’s current struggles? I want to hear from you! Email mat.honan@buzzfeed.com (twitter.com/_/status/976917947342929920)
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@m_ott “There are no technical barriers for why we couldn’t share our photos to our own sites instead of to Instagram, or why we couldn’t post stupid memes to our own web address instead of on Facebook or Reddit.” 👏👏👏 #indieweb https://twitter.com/anildash/status/976679013115682816 (twitter.com/_/status/977081362598514689)
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@freecates "Homebrew web" - https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/977082116335861760)
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@m_ott Seems like the perfect time to dig up two articles I wrote last year about securing privacy and owning your content in the face of global surveillance and data-sucking companies like #facebook. #surveillancecapitalism #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/977093992776159232)
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cweiske voxpelli, I don't need my account on https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ but would like kaushalmodi (https://scripter.co/) to get my place in the 150 available accounts. can we arrange that somehow?
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Loqi A WebMention Endpoint
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@kevinmarks @hazem_awad Don't make Facebook your only point of contact with the Web. See http://indieweb.org for more on that. Regulate. GDPR is a good foundation in terms of mandating permission for each use clearly explained, rather than the "correlate everything" practice. (twitter.com/_/status/977113225513889792)
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@ChrisAldrich @kaushalmodi @_dgoldsmith It looks like @schussman has gotten Webmention and display as well as a manual box working on his Hugo site as well, so he may be of some help too: https://prettygoodhat.com/post/2018-01-14-retuning-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/977116413436493824)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@kaushalmodi @_dgoldsmith It looks like @schussman has gotten Webmention and display as well as a manual box working on his Hugo site as well, so" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-03-23 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/kaushalmodi-_dgoldsmith-it-looks-like-schussman-has-gotten-webmention-and
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[kevinmarks] Is Anil baiting us to write indieweb tools on Glitch?
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sknebel I'm certainly curious what's "coming soon".
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Zegnat We already have at least 1 IndieWeb tool on Glitch ;) https://sturdy-backbone.glitch.me/
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petermolnar what is Glitch?
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Loqi Glitch (formerly Gomix, HyperDev before that) is a tool by Fog Creek Software to allow you to quickly prototype web applications in a complete IDE with built in version control, sharing, and more https://indieweb.org/Glitch
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sknebel Free node.js app hosting
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[kevinmarks] this kind of applies to indieweb, except we have answers https://twitter.com/alexhern/status/977138113523978240
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@alexhern Here are the three questions I need answered before I care about a blockchain company: • why is this actually useful • why is this being decentralised actually useful • why should a normal user care about it until it actually exists (twitter.com/_/status/977138113523978240)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "That reminds me, I should take a ..." by Jeremy Cherfas on 2018-03-23 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2018/that-reminds-me-i-should-take-a
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@mrkrndvs NEW POST: Managing Content Through Canonical Links https://readwriterespond.com/2018/03/managing-content-through-canonical-links/ #IndieWeb https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY-PIL7XcAMXgQM.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/977157018137059328)
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@mrkrndvs NEW POST: Managing Content Through Canonical Links https://readwriterespond.com/2018/03/managing-content-through-canonical-links/ #IndieWeb https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY-PJoLW0AAfLqM.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/977157042845769728)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Though I have been reading snippets about ..." by Sumudu on 2018-03-23 https://boonbutts.withknown.com/2018/though-i-have-been-reading-snippets-about
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[cb] if you're reading something cool on your mobile device and want to share it to your micropub-enabled website/blog, how do you do it?
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[cb] I'm aware of manually posting using a CMS like WP, or using a web-based editor like Quill... I'm imagining something lightning fast, like an option on "share with..." in iOS (like I do for Pocket, SMS, etc.)
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Zegnat Sounds like indigenous
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Zegnat What is indigenous?
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Loqi Indigenous is a native app for iOS currently in beta that supports posting your website using Micropub and a built-in reader that supports microsub https://indieweb.org/Indigenous
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[cb] @zegnat ooohh yeah I've heard about it, and signed up for the beta but haven't heard anything back yet
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swentel hmm, we should update that page to include the android version I'm working on :)
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swentel but I first need to get make sure I can get on aperture (basic auth and basic note posting already works though)
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cweiske there is https://github.com/pstuifzand/micropub-android in alpha now
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Loqi [pstuifzand] micropub-android: Android client for sending micropub posts
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swentel ooh
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swentel I'm working on https://github.com/swentel/indigenous-android - didn't know about it
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Loqi [swentel] indigenous-android: An app with extensions for sharing information to micropub endpoints and reading from microsub endpoints
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swentel idea is to have feature parity with the ios version
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skippy as an Android user, I'll happily donate some cash to either of those efforts. The lack of Android apps for indieweb is depressing.
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skippy feature suggestion for Quill, aaronpk: templates returned from a micropub endpoint to pre-fill the editor screen.
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Zegnat [cb] maybe hang around chat and pole at [eddie], see if you can get into the beta 😉
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sebsel wants too and pokes [eddie]
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@manton2 IndieWeb generation 4 and hosted domains: http://www.manton.org/2018/03/indieweb-generation-4-and-hosted-domains.html (twitter.com/_/status/977189655845195777)
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[cb] pokes [eddie] for a taste of some sweet sweet beta software!
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Zegnat What time is it for [eddie]?
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Loqi In [eddie]'s timezone, US/Eastern, it is currently 10:53am on March 23
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Zegnat He might be awake, haha
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Loqi Zegnat: lol
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWeb generation 4 and hosted domains | Manton Reece" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2018-03-23 http://www.manton.org/2018/03/indieweb-generation-4-and-hosted-domains.html
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "IndieWeb generation 4 and hosted domains" http://www.manton.org/2018/03/indieweb-generation-4-and-hosted-domains.html (from https://aaronparecki.com/2018/03/23/8/)
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[eddie] He *might* be awake. 11am is a stretch 😉
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[eddie] 😆😆
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[eddie] I would say typically I am up and around earlier than this.
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[eddie] !tell cb: I’ll make sure you’re added here in just a couple of minutes 🙂
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[cb] [eddie] awesome, thanks!!
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[eddie] !tell sebsel did you just feel like poking or did you want into the indigenous beta too?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[cleverdevil] Good morning, IndieWeb 🙂
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sknebel good morning!
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snarfed morning!
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Loqi *yawn*
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@ablaze 👁 Reading: “IndieWeb generation 4 and hosted domains” http://www.manton.org/2018/03/indieweb-generation-4-and-hosted-domains.html (twitter.com/_/status/977210784118919168)
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tantek ooh
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tantek manton++ "I want blogging to be as easy as tweeting."
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Loqi manton has 39 karma in this channel (42 overall)
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tantek "You’ll notice when you use Twitter that they never ask you to SFTP into twitter.com to configure your account. They don’t ask you to install anything." <-- True and False. They ask you to install the native app all the time!
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tantek THIS: "Owning your content isn’t about portable software. It’s about portable URLs and data. It’s about domain names."
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aaronpk The twitter app is different tho, since it's optional and it isn't part of hosting your tweets as it were
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tantek Twitter doesn't make it sound like it's optional
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tantek they literally push you to install on EVERY SINGLE mobile web page load
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[kevinmarks] they also ask you to upload your addressbook all the time
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tantek no only on first sign-up
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[kevinmarks] blogger used to ask you to sftp into your own site
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tantek I never see addressbook prompts
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tantek I always see "view/install app" prompts
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[kevinmarks] I get them as notofcations
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sknebel on the mobile site I get "you've been ratelimited, please try again" all the time
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tantek [kevinmarks]: hah, FTP :) SFTP is if you're local
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sknebel even if it's the first twitter link of the day I follow
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tantek *lucky
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tantek GREAT post Manton
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[manton] Thanks!
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[manton] And maybe I don't use Twitter enough anymore to notice the prompts to install their own app. Good point.
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tantek literally screenshot any mobile twitter website view
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[kevinmarks] 8 years ago https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/03/google_bloggers_ends_ftp/
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tantek what is FTP
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Loqi FTP is an abbreviation for File Transfer Protocol, a way to move files to a different machine (like your webserver) https://indieweb.org/FTP
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tantek what is SFTP
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SFTP" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "SFTP is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[manton] Yeah, you're right... On iOS, I usually open Tweetbot or Twitterrific, but following any link to the mobile web site will run into this.
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@tmreading2 Jon Mitchell ๛ is reading "IndieWeb generation 4 and hosted domains" http://ift.tt/2py7Vsa (twitter.com/_/status/977213305134764032)
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tantek [manton] e.g. if you tap a Twitter link from Slack it opens in Safari
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[cleverdevil] It really is a great post@
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[cleverdevil] I got into a bit of a conversation yesterday on Twitter with some friends about whether or not deleting myself from Facebook represents "privilege."
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tantek privilege has always lead the way with social network momentum. both with early adopters making something popular (Twitter, FB), and with abandonment / flight (MySpace).
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[manton] [cleverdevil] Thanks.
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[cleverdevil] Really made me think about pushing to gen 4!
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[cleverdevil] I'm firmly in the camp that deleting oneself from Facebook has zero to do with privilege.
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tantek [cleverdevil]: agreed with pushing to gen 4. And anyone here who is an active participant is in a good place to help with that.
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tantek [cleverdevil]: what about LinkedIn then?
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petermolnar "I want blogging to be as easy as tweeting." - I don't. I want it to require effort. To make people think what they write down, about the form, about the word, about the content. The ease behind everything only results on the ocean of mediocre entries about nothing; I see endless laments about "the old internet", but nobody seems to realise the "old internet" was mostly about content people put effort and time into. I'm guilty about th
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petermolnar is as well, and took me years to return from it.
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petermolnar Apart from this, it's a indeed a very good article about what's owning content really means, there's only one extra problem: you only rent a domain, you don't ever own it, apart from .onion hashes.
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tantek petermolnar: I disagree. I think "as easy as tweeting" from and on your own website/domain/identity feel fundamentally different (more ownership / responsibility) than "tweeting" to/on a silo
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petermolnar [cleverdevil]: it's a privilege - deleting - but a weird one; mostly tells about how rigid/flexible/IRL the base of those people you have on FB are. Are they willing to communicate in any other way? Do you have the option to meet them IRL? An so on.
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tantek [cleverdevil]: the more you have other ways of both staying in touch with people and meeting new people, the easier it is to delete one of them (FB).
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[cleverdevil] IMO, privilege requires the advantage to be the result of things completely out of your control – class, race, gender, etc.
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tantek I think that's perhaps where the sense of privilege comes from as the former is highly associated with privilege, especially across backgrounds / etc.
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[cleverdevil] People for whom deleting Facebook is difficult are in that position as the result of their own choices and addiction/dependency on the platform.
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tantek [cleverdevil]: also as potentially part of their economic status / level
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[cleverdevil] Just because something is easier for some people and harder for others doesn't imply privilege.
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tantek which yes you have some control over, but you tend to be "born into" a baseline at some level
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tantek [cleverdevil]: the reverse is often true, if something seems easier for some people and harder for others, there may be some aspect of privilege at work there
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[manton] @petermolnar I see where you're coming from. Related, we don't have retweeting yet on Micro.blog because it's _too_ easy to share something without reading it or thinking about it at all. I think good UI can encourage people to be thoughtful. But still much easier than it is right now to blog.
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tantek (not saying for sure, just it is often evidence thereof)
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tantek [manton] good point about retweeting
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[cleverdevil] Sure, and I get that 🙂
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[cleverdevil] I just think its extremely dangerous to throw around the word "privilege" in this context, as it encourages people to prop up Facebook through poor justifications.
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tantek with FB, because it homogenized the UI / profiles of everyone, no matter how poor/rich you are, it somewhat leveled what people "looked like" online, independent of their economic status
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tantek which may have reduced barriers to reaching across (networking with) typical societal economic divides
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tantek which so much is impacted if not driven by, e.g. recommendations for jobs, finding out about opportunities etc.
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[cleverdevil] [manton] the more and more I think about it, the better I think that decision is! FWIW, I think Micro.blog should have a capability to somehow share or amplify content using `repost-of`, but it shouldn't appear in the timeline, and should be placed under the Discover section based upon how many of the people you follow repost something.
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[cleverdevil] [manton] an IndieWeb inspired version of Nuzzel!
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[cleverdevil] What is Nuzzel?
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Loqi Nuzzel is a service with an app that surfaces articles based upon how many of your friends like those articles https://indieweb.org/Nuzzel
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[cleverdevil] (I've wanted something like this in Together, FWIW, but I think Micro.blog is a much better place for it).
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tantek [manton] what do you think about "quoted" posts?
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tantek (like quoted tweets)
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tantek where it requires slightly more thinking effort, to say something in addition to the post you're quoting in its entirety
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Blogging, social media, and ambient humanity" by Pilch on 2018-03-23 https://kottke.org/18/03/blogging-social-media-and-ambient-humanity
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[manton] [tantek] I like quoted posts. In fact, I create them pretty often as a blockquote + simple comment and link. And I absolutely want a UI designed around that.
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@pi1ch #indieweb https://kottke.org/18/03/blogging-social-media-and-ambient-humanity (twitter.com/_/status/977217687125336065)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "#indieweb https://kottke.org/18/03/blogging-social-media-and-ambient-humanity" by Pilch on 2018-03-23 https://pilch.me/2018/indieweb-1803blogging-social-media-and-ambient-humanity
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[manton] [cleverdevil] That's interesting. I should probably play with Nuzzel again sometime too.
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[cleverdevil] [manton] I've discussed having this be a third-party service that could be attached to any Microsub service with [aaronpk] as well.
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[cleverdevil] May be another opportunity, sort of like Sunlit, to attract people to your platform.
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[manton] That's cool. If it was a third-party service, how would it plug into Microsub? Like you repost-of to the service, and then it aggregates a feed that you can browse?
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tantek this is an even more indieweb article than the kottke one (which kottke links to) https://dancohen.org/2018/03/21/back-to-the-blog/
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tantek ^^^ if someone wants to indienews it
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[cleverdevil] I think the way I'd approach it is that the service, once connected to your Microsub server, would ask you which channels to look at for discovery purposes. Then, you could give it Micropub credentials to publish discovered posts to.
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[cleverdevil] So, the service would look at the configured channels and watch for `repost-of` items. When it encounters an reposted item a configurable number of times (a threshold), it would publish that item to a Micropub endpoint, or make them available in a feed that could be subscribed to.
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[manton] Ah, gotcha.
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tantek the only personal use-case I've had for reposting is "realtime"-like during a conference where I spoke (and thus wasn't posting) and others were posting quotes and such of my talk.
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tantek photos etc.
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tantek so still content that was relevant to me, just not written by me
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tantek but retweet as "boost" (which I think is what Mastodon even calls it) has always felt annoying / icky to me
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tantek which I think is how most people seem to be using retweeting
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tantek perhaps because the desire to make something "go viral" or whatever?
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jeremycherfas @manton I'm worried about that yet in "we don't have retweeting yet". Is it on the roadmap? If so, I hope you will make it possible to block all retweets from my timeline.
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tantek the other place that popularized reposting (before twitter retweets) was Tumblr
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[manton] [jeremycherfas] I probably shouldn't have said "yet". It's not on the roadmap at all. Some kind of easier way to quote and link to a post is planned, but not one-click sharing.
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jeremycherfas Phew. Thanks for that.
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[manton] A little over a year ago I wrote a post about this and I don't think my opinion has changed since then: http://www.manton.org/2016/11/fake-news-and-instagram.html
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Loqi [manton] Fake news and Instagram
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grantcodes Just doing a bit of thinking about microsub notifications. Say I want push notifications (at least for the notifications channel) it initially seems like it would be a good idea for the server to send the notifications.
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Loqi grantcodes: [cleverdevil] left you a message on 2018-02-20 at 6:07pm UTC: I went ahead and purchased alltogethernow.io. Let me know where you want the DNS pointed!
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Loqi grantcodes: [cleverdevil] left you a message on 2018-02-20 at 6:08pm UTC: also, I figure we can use the root domain for a website for the project and maybe getit.alltogethernow.io or another subdomain for the app itself.
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grantcodes But then chances are the server will not actually have any way to view the notifications.
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grantcodes Oops should put this in dev
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tantek [manton] still a very insightful post
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[manton] Thank you.
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tantek repost << 2016-11-22 Criticism/warning: {{manton}} [http://www.manton.org/2016/11/fake-news-and-instagram.html Fake news and Instagram] <blockquote>When you have to put a little work into posting, you take it more seriously. I wonder if fake news would have spread so quickly on Facebook if it was a little more difficult to share an article before you’ve read more than the headline.</blockquote>
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Loqi ok, I added "2016-11-22 Criticism/warning: {{manton}} [http://www.manton.org/2016/11/fake-news-and-instagram.html Fake news and Instagram] <blockquote>When you have to put a little work into posting, you take it more seriously. I wonder if fake news would have spread so quickly on Facebook if it was a little more difficult to share an article before you’ve read more than the headline.</blockquote>" to the "See Also" section of /repost
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Loqi [manton] Fake news and Instagram
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tantek now re-reading http://www.manton.org/2016/11/todays-social-networks-are-broken.html
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Loqi [manton] Today’s social networks are broken
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tantek [manton], I found http://inessential.com/2016/11/09/on_leaving_twitter via you and somehow that didn't make it into /silo-quits yet I double-checked and now https://twitter.com/brentsimmons is tweeting up a storm, daily even. When did he return to Twitter?
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tantek (and more importantly, why?)
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tantek older silo quit: https://twitter.com/incanus77/status/975780788435238913
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@incanus77 Delete your FaceBook account. You can do it. I’m about five years in and it’s only a minor, if any, inconvenience to not have one. https://www.imore.com/delete-your-facebook (twitter.com/_/status/975780788435238913)
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[cleverdevil] https://twitter.com/lorengrush/status/977213443018231808
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@lorengrush Somewhere, @SpaceX's social media manager just fainted https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/977211923719598086 (twitter.com/_/status/977213443018231808)
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[cleverdevil] LOL, topical!
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tantek Hey he's in Portland apparently - aaronpk do you know Justin Miller?
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aaronpk Yea! He was at the last HWC!
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[eddie] Wow, if you read down further in that thread, it literally gets deleted!
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[cleverdevil] Yup!
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[cleverdevil] Amazing.
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[jgmac1106] At same time do folks know how dependent small towns are on Facebook? Maybe it isn't this way in cities. All local announcements, updates, politics, and business flow through Facebook. When I announced I was quitting (again) I got a few messages asking not to so the town doesn't lose a voice
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KartikPrabhu in response to the FB debacle it seems my distant relatives have started to "friend" me
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KartikPrabhu [jgmac1106]: yes that is definitely true
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[cleverdevil] [jgmac1106] I hear that argument, too. But, it still smacks of "I can't quit the drug! I'm *addicted!*"
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KartikPrabhu [cleverdevil]: no, in many places FB, and Whatsapp are a crucial mode of communication for people
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[cleverdevil] Because they've chosen to become addicted to it.
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KartikPrabhu no
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[cleverdevil] Not because it has to be that way.
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KartikPrabhu my family uses Whatsapp instead of texts because it is more convenient and cheaper to do so
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KartikPrabhu not because they are "addicted"
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KartikPrabhu this "addiction" phrasing is not going to help actually solve th issue
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[jgmac1106] @karthikPrabhu we have a very active Mcverry Diaspora page on Facebook trying to move them over to @withknown site as well but reading up on GDPR for folks in Ireland and the UK
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gRegorLove I think quitting FB can be a privilege, but I don't think that necessarily means one shouldn't do it. Being aware of it is important, and thinking through how you can leverage it. And obviously, not being smug about it.
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KartikPrabhu right ^
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[cleverdevil] shrugs
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[cleverdevil] I'm not talking about WhatsApp FWIW 🙂
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KartikPrabhu and I am making an anlogy
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gRegorLove How about FB Messenger?
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[jgmac1106] Yes, many are addicted to the red notification but I had to rejoin to find out when a Park and Rec program started. I actually just started to use Facebook professionally (always kept it social) found so many teacher groups I now lost. Trying to bring em back to listservs
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[cleverdevil] Calling a spade a spade: "I don't like Facebook the company, but I like the things it gives me."
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[cleverdevil] That's straight up the language of addiction.
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KartikPrabhu if that is not an actual quote then it is a strawman
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[cleverdevil] "I wish I could quit <drug>, but I'm in too deep."
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[cleverdevil] Its most definitely a strawman 🙂
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KartikPrabhu i think your strawman is addicted to something ;)
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[cleverdevil] Haha
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Loqi rofl
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[cleverdevil] Also: I'm mostly just wanting to help people get over the obstacles and get off Facebook for the benefit of the world.
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tantek wow that SpaceX / Tesla FB deletions should be added to /silo-quits!
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jeremycherfas I wonder whether Elon downloaded his stuff first. I don't think he had time. So maybe it was all POSSE anyway.
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[cleverdevil] I recognize that its difficult for some people for a number of reasons.
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gRegorLove Maybe for -chat, but if we did accept it's "addiction," how can we help people get un-addicted?
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[cleverdevil] I just want to be careful not to be an enabler for propping up Facebook.
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[jgmac1106] We had a weekly for profit paper start up in town. I tried to pitch them on a private social network but they didn't want to, and if you are in any kind of community activism you lose an important recruitment funnel
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[eddie] I think it’s going on with cleverdevil’s approach right now. First, discover what it is that presents hurdles for people to leave Facebook and than find user-friendly solutions as replacements
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gRegorLove I don't think most people who would argue that it's privilege are really trying to prop up FB.
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[cleverdevil] They're not trying to, but that's the definite net effect.
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tantek wonders when we should start filing feature requests for Bridgy Delete, like Bridgy Publish, but for deleting the things you've POSSEd to FB
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[jgmac1106] And everyone just wants to share video. That has been biggest stumbling block for my evangelism. If they can't press button and share video it's a no go
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gRegorLove [cleverdevil], Have you seen people who were going to delete FB decide not to as a result of the privilege argument?
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[cleverdevil] Yes.
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[eddie] I think delete is so powerful, I know I’m manually deleting my stuff of Facebook rather than using Bridgy because I want to verify everything is on my site first
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[cleverdevil] Many.
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gRegorLove [jgmac1106], Live video you mean?
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[cleverdevil] The majority of my friends who are still on Facebook wish they weren't.
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[cleverdevil] But, say "well, I wouldn't want to cut off my family and friends."
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gRegorLove That's not the "privilege" reason though
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tantek [jgmac1106]: re: "many are addicted to the red notification", now going on 2+ months of not clicking the red (globe) notification in FB.
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[jgmac1106] [gregorlove] especially in the non profit and political activism worlds
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[cleverdevil] Fair.
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[cleverdevil] I have had the privilege convo with multiple people though.
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tantek I think it may be more productive to tombstone your FB account rather than delete it
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tantek leave it as a static exit for folks to find you elsewhere
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[eddie] What do you define as tombstone your FB, tantek?
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gRegorLove I have thought about that... changing my banner image to something like "find me at gregorlove.com"
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[eddie] oh that makes sense
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gRegorLove What is tombstone?
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Loqi tombstone is a replacement entry with null or marked data for a deleted entry https://indieweb.org/tombstone
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tantek yeah tombstone is not a good name
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tantek for what I mean here with FB
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gRegorLove silo-quit-stone?
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gRegorLove :)
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aaronpk I remember seeing someone's header image like that
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tantek what is 302
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "302" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "302 is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is 301
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "301" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "301 is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jgmac1106] Been almost year now with no Facebook on phone. I occasionally access it on web but it's so clunky on Firefox for Android helped keep me off. Have to put Twitter on and off for conferences and keep LinkedIn bc that is a sales funnel for me
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[cleverdevil] I did that with my Instagram account.
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[cleverdevil] https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd6HunOBMJ1/?taken-by=cleverdevil
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[jgmac1106] I quit a few months back after reading how hard it was for Emma Irwin being told how to feel by the algorithm after her husband passed away. Fell off the wagon to keep drug metaphor going
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tantek FB on mobile web is plenty good enough (and remarkably less distracting, less crappy ads etc.)
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tantek [cleverdevil]++ whoa
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Loqi cleverdevil has 45 karma in this channel (75 overall)
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gRegorLove 302 (302 Found) is an HTTP status code returned from a web server to indicate the URL is temporarily redirected to another URL.
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[jgmac1106] And you get copy/paste back.
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gRegorLove what is 302?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "302" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "302 is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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gRegorLove 302 (302 Found) is an HTTP status code returned from a web server to indicate the URL is temporarily redirected to another URL.
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gRegorLove Loqi.
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[cleverdevil] I considered the same with Facebook, but honestly, I don't think it has the same impcat.
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[cleverdevil] You can still be tagged.
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[cleverdevil] You can have people add things to your timeline.
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[cleverdevil] Facebook is still building an active profile on you.
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tantek [cleverdevil]: add that to your entry! embed the image! https://indieweb.org/silo-quits#Jonathan_LaCour
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[cleverdevil] I don't want to enable them.
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[cleverdevil] Will do!
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tantek gRegorLove: no parenthetical after term. must be term is or term are or term was
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gRegorLove Ah right. Did it manually :)
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aaronpk Also not 100% sure the regex will catch a number
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tantek we need a term like /301 for the user-level equivalent, like [cleverdevil]'s https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd6HunOBMJ1/
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@incanus77 “If you can’t use your own domain name, you can’t own it. Your content will be forever stuck at those silo URLs, beholden to the whims of the algorithmic timeline and shifting priorities of the executive team.” http://www.manton.org/2018/03/indieweb-generation-4-and-hosted-domains.html (twitter.com/_/status/977237407123812352)
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tantek alright we need to expand those /301 /302 dfns to be more than brief summaries of wikipedia-level dfns
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tantek something more directly applicable to the indieweb
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tantek e.g. when do / should you use /301 or /302 on your indiewebsite? links to where they impact Webmention perhaps
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@klandwehr Recently joined the IndieWeb Slack and I feel like I’ve entered a foreign country. The words I am reading are English but at times they make no sense. The IndieWeb is just not ready for normals, but I sure hope it will be (twitter.com/_/status/977237843293720576)
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aaronpk oh dear
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tantek ^^^ and this is why we need to all encourage each other take all jargon to #indieweb-dev
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tantek seriously
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aaronpk +1
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tantek I know my bad with 301 and 302
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gRegorLove Expanding /redirect might be good for that, linking to the http status codes for more plumbing stuff?
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tantek I should have done the what is in #indieweb-dev
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aaronpk discuss << https://twitter.com/klandwehr/status/977237843293720576
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Loqi ok, I added "https://twitter.com/klandwehr/status/977237843293720576" to the "See Also" section of /discuss
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Loqi yea
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tantek gRegorLove: and that question is probably better on #indieweb-dev or maybe #indieweb-meta
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Zegnat Who is klandwehr?
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Zegnat Aww :(
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tantek Zegnat if someone just joined the slack, it is unlikely they've already created a profile
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Zegnat True, but one could hope :) From IRC I can’t see if they are still here either, so no way to ping.
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Zegnat Wanted to invite them to hit whoever over the head as soon as they thought the words stopped making sense~
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tantek Zegnat that's not a reasonable ask for someone new to a community
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tantek usually new folks listen first before contributing, certainly before criticizing
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tantek and that's considered good (community positive) behavior too!
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[eddie] [kim_landwehr] Thanks for the heads up. As you can see, Tweets that mention IndieWeb come to the Slack channel, and we definitely want to help keep the environment more welcoming to those who are new to the IndieWeb including those that might feel more overwhelmed by Technical talk. We try to keep the more technical talk to the #dev channel, but we don’t always succeed. But we continue to try 🙂 Hope we didn’t scare you away 😄
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tantek [eddie]++
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Loqi eddie has 20 karma in this channel (51 overall)
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[cleverdevil] FWIW, I felt the same way when I first started [kim_landwehr]! There are a lot of terms that the community has come up with that make it hard to follow at first, and we need to be much better about making our community more approachable. The good news is that the community itself really wants to help people.
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gRegorLove Another good point regarding Facebook: https://twitter.com/sethw/status/977240675795206145
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@sethw This (below), in addition to bands posting tour dates, pre-order links. Not QUITE the same, but FB is controlling ART at this point, too. It limits the reach of your new merch post. New song premieres. Before too long, you turn into "eh, there's no good music anymore" guy. https://twitter.com/fchollet/status/976565324622344192 (twitter.com/_/status/977240675795206145)
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gRegorLove I always kind of cringe when a band has Facebook or Bandsintown as their primary source of information.
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tantek gRegorLove: lol that "point" is so MySpace 2005
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[eddie] In regards to the leaving a quit post behind on Facebook, I agree with [cleverdevil] that I don’t want to leave my account open forever, but I’m thinking something like 3-6 months of a quit post before I close it down for good is my plan. So deleting all content and stopping use within the next couple of months, but then leaving a quit post behind but removing that before the end of 2018 unless I can find a way to prevent any tagging or other ac
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[eddie] then I might leave it longer
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[eddie] If I can find a way to completely freeze everything associated to my account while leaving a quit post behind then I’ll do that
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tantek this is also a good use-case for a pinned post
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tantek pinning a quit post
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tantek even in advance
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[eddie] Yeah definitely. I looked into pinning my post I did the other day on Facebook but I don’t think they give you that option
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tantek o rly
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tantek maybe only on Pages and Events?
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[eddie] Yeah you can on oages
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[eddie] Pages*
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tantek oh there's a thought
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tantek pretty sure there's a way to *migrate* a FB Profile to being a FB Page
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Zegnat There definitely used to be.
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tantek I think Zeldman did it without truly intending to / understanding the consequences a few years back
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Zegnat And he couldn’t go back from being a page to being a profile? Or something like that? I seem to recall that too
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tantek right
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tantek pretty sure he blogged about it
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Zegnat http://www.zeldman.com/2011/03/05/migrating-from-a-conventional-facebook-account-to-a-public-figure-fan-page-%E2%80%93-a-report-from-the-trenches/
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Zegnat Probably
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sebsel IIRC, there was also a limit of 1000 friends... that was de benefit of 'becoming a page' (at least for the Dutch writers I know): you can have more fans.
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Loqi sebsel: [eddie] left you a message 3 hours, 11 minutes ago: did you just feel like poking or did you want into the indigenous beta too?
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Zegnat Yes, that’s one thing Zeldman cites in that post sebsel :)
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sebsel oe~ -runs to Slack for DM-
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tantek what is a Facebook Page
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Loqi Facebook Page is a form of identity on Facebook that has its own profile like other identities, and a set of administrators who can take action on Facebook as the identity of that Facebook Page https://indieweb.org/Facebook_Page
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tantek Facebook Page << 2011-03-05 [http://www.zeldman.com/2011/03/05/migrating-from-a-conventional-facebook-account-to-a-public-figure-fan-page-%E2%80%93-a-report-from-the-trenches/ Migrating from a conventional Facebook account to a public figure (“fan”) page – a report from the trenches]
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Loqi ok, I added "2011-03-05 [http://www.zeldman.com/2011/03/05/migrating-from-a-conventional-facebook-account-to-a-public-figure-fan-page-%E2%80%93-a-report-from-the-trenches/ Migrating from a conventional Facebook account to a public figure (“fan”) page – a report from the trenches]" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook_Page
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[kim_landwehr] Yea I have been doing a lot of lurking here and am slowly learning about IndieWeb. (and it’s language). Still at that stage where sometimes I have a question but not sure how to ask it, or even what it is [cleverdevil]
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tantek [kim_landwehr]: how did you discover IndieWeb?
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[cleverdevil] Totally fair [kim_landwehr]! One little tip is that you can always ask for definitions of things here, and many times, our chat bot Loqi will have the answer.
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[cleverdevil] For example:
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[cleverdevil] What is POSSE?
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Loqi POSSE is an abbreviation for Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere, a content publishing model that starts with posting content on your own domain first, then syndicating out copies to 3rd party services with permashortlinks back to the original on your site https://indieweb.org/POSSE
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[kim_landwehr] Thanks for the tip [cleverdevil]
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[cleverdevil] Sure thing!
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[jeremycherfas] [kim_landwehr] I am a relative newcomer too and can confirm that every here is extremely friendly and helpful. #dev can be difficult but lurking there I learn a lot just by osmosis.
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[manton] [tantek] Just catching up... Yeah, Brent quit Twitter for about a year and deleted everything, then decided to join again. He has been posting to his own microblog too lately (https://micro.inessential.com) but not strictly POSSE, I don't think.
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tantek do you know why he rejoined?
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snarfed ooh https://kylewm.com/ finally renewed his ssl cert
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KartikPrabhu related: I just switched to Lets Encrypt with auto-renewal
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sebsel And we're back to jargon :D
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tantek I blame snarfed :P
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snarfed accepts
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tantek do we expect non-devs to understand what an ssl cert is? or should they even care?
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snarfed ssl yes. cert, maybe no
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snarfed agreed, i could have rephrased as, "ooh, https://kylewm.com/ is back up!"
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tantek snarfed, I may disagree even on "ssl". https: yes, ssl no.
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sebsel No, not ssl. Maybe 'that green thing in your address bar' at best.
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snarfed sure
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tantek I wonder what it would take to train Loqi to nudge folks using dev-talk toward #indieweb-dev
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KartikPrabhu AI
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tantek AI--
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Loqi ai has -1 karma
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KartikPrabhu lol
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tantek Loqi -> #indieweb-meta
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KartikPrabhu tantek: you did ask about training a bot
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tantek KartikPrabhu: users do interact with (chat) bots, on many "platforms"
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@keithjgrant @anildash If you haven’t checkout out the “IndieWeb,” you should. I am in fact replying to this tweet using two open web standards backed by W3C specifications: Micropub, to post to my blog using a 3rd party client (which happens to integrate w/ twitter), and… https://keithjgrant.com/notes/2018/03/if-you-havent-checkout-out-the (twitter.com/_/status/977256546173407232)
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tantek and that's what you (anildash) get for seemingly going out of your way to not mention IndieWeb in your blog post ;)
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tantek you get indiesplained
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tantek wait what happened to the tweet permalink? ^^^
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aaronpk 🤔
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KartikPrabhu huh! I can't find that tweet on @keithjgrant either
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KartikPrabhu or on https://keithjgrant.com/social/
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KartikPrabhu deleted ?
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gRegorLove time travel tweet?
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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tantek that would be, embarrassing
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@HongPong #mastodon indieweb got a big plug in WaPo today and tons of people are signing up. The 'mothership' instance has open registration today, sign up now &gt;&gt; https://mastodon.social ( follow my acct here: https://mastodon.social/@HongPong ) (twitter.com/_/status/977270303868022785)
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KartikPrabhu Loqi why you messed up about keithjgrant ?
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KartikPrabhu lol! "trending" on FB shows the news that Elon Musk deleted FB pages for Tesla and SpaceX :P
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tantek what is trendin
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trendin" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "trendin is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is trending
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trending" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "trending is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what are trends
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Loqi Trends is a feature on social media silos that shows the some of the most popular hashtags (AKA Trending hashtags), links, news articles, words, or phrases that are being used or cited in posts, and have been criticized on Facebook & Twitter for being manipulated by bots and/or showing conspiracy theories at the top https://indieweb.org/trends
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tantek trending is /trends
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Loqi ok
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tantek trendin is /trends
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Loqi ok
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tantek KartikPrabhu: please screenshot that and add to https://indieweb.org/trends#Facebook
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tomasparks How well facebook's new policy affect bridgy?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Bridging the gap" by Colin Walker on 2018-03-23 https://colinwalker.blog/bridging-the-gap/
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[kevinmarks] The other kind of tombstoning may make sense for Facebook, given the profiling issue - before you quit, scramble your metadata so they the profiling is worthless. Move to Schenectady, get younger or older, like only herring and shoe polish, you get the idea.
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snarfed tomasparks: which new policy? the ones mentioned in https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10104712037900071 ?
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snarfed bridgy is fine with everything mentioned there. it already only handles public data, and you already have to re auth it with FB every 2 mos or so.
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-03-23.html
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tomasparks Snarfed: ok then
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tomasparks snarfed: I thought there were going to be more headaches
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snarfed oh there may well be. these are just very early PR statements. the actual implemented policies are still a ways off, and will probably change more
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tomasparks that why I am turning my facebook acc into a wasteland
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KartikPrabhu https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/977284810791059456 ;)
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@kartik_prabhu Seems like @facebook is becoming a place more for shopping and less for people. see also: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/968657252373684224 Someone should invent a new social network! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZADNcBW4AAVvZt.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/977284810791059456)
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@sl007 @netizenrights Thanks for following - regarding the posted protocols I made some posters to hang them on every wall around walled gardens: https://github.com/sebilasse/indieweb-origami/tree/master/Poster/_PDF Apart from that - let's meet : https://indieweb.org/Events #indieweb https://indiewebify.me (twitter.com/_/status/977293445822902272)
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@olebegemann “Owning your content isn’t about portable software. It’s about portable URLs and data. It’s about domain names.” http://www.manton.org/2018/03/indieweb-generation-4-and-hosted-domains.html This is the all-important rule: if you want to own your content, you must publish it under a domain you control. (twitter.com/_/status/977295851491078144)
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tantek what is music
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Loqi A scrobble (AKA a listen) is a passive type of post used to publish a song (music or audio track, including concert recordings or DJ sets) or podcast that you have listened to https://indieweb.org/music
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tantek what is a musician
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "musician" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "musician is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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toomim Hello indieweb! I just saw the SF event two days ago that I missed! I'm so bummed!
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tantek musician is someone who creates music typically by playing instruments though sometimes by electronic sequencing, and is often a composer of said music too.
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Loqi ok
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tantek hello toomim and welcome!
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toomim I'm building a web protocol https://stateb.us/ that would be great to apply to indieweb sites and would love to chat with some folk!
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toomim I moved to Berkeley and hope I can meet some local compadres.
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toomim Hello tantek! I think you're one of the SF indieleaders?
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toomim I think I watched an indieweb talk you gave years back.
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tantek toomim: indeed! I co-organized Homebrew Website Club SF
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toomim I'm so bummed I missed it!
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tantek the next one is 2018-04-04 also @MozSF if you'd like to put it on your calendar! Same time: 17:30-19:30
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toomim Oh yes!!! So soon! Great! Thank you!
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tantek I'll be posting the event page shortly
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tantek toomim do you have a personal website?
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toomim I will so be there.
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toomim I'm https://invisible.college/@toomim
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tantek toomim - hilarious - do you control the domain and host others there?
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@HongPong @NoLove4USGov waddup http://mastodon.social #indieweb #mastodon (twitter.com/_/status/977301192945610753)
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toomim I control the domain, but the HTML/image files served are roughly open access. We share a btsync read/write key with basically anyone who asks.
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tantek wow fascinating model - I don't know any other group sites that do that
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tantek what is btsync
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Loqi Bittorrent Sync is a proprietary Dropbox replacement/alternative https://indieweb.org/btsync
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-03-23.html
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tantek ah 10 min before oh well
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tantek much more to update
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toomim Yeah, btsync is kinda cool, but they tried to make it a profitable company and bloated the software... it's now called resilio
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toomim We'll be replacing it with statebus once it's got good versioning.
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tantek what is statebus?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "statebus" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "statebus is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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toomim Oh yeah sure. Thanks.
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toomim Ok looks like I need to set up indieauth first, before I get a wiki account. Sounds fun. I'll look into it.
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skippy Syncthing is a good open source alternative to btsync.
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skippy https://syncthing.net/
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tantek toomim, from your view source, looks like you have a github account, perhaps link to it from your home page?
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tantek that's likely the fastest way for you to get IndieAuth setup
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toomim Ok rad, thanks.
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tantek see https://indieauth.com/setup for more details
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Loqi IndieAuth.com
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toomim Yeah I tried Syncthing, but they don't let you share with a private key. You have to create accounts for each person.
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tantek what is Syncthing
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Syncthing" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Syncthing is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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toomim It's nice having a shared key -- lowers the friction to sharing
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toomim (and also to people destroying the content... so we have to have backups)
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toomim ok I'm gonna walk to a cafe and try adding some indieauth
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tantek toomim++ sounds like a great combo
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Loqi toomim has 1 karma
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toomim Loqi is a good bot.
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tantek gives Loqi a snack
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Loqi steps on the snack
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tantek and sometimes clumsy
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toomim Hahaha. Wow. Nice snark.
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toomim This community has good snark.
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Loqi nice
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tantek Facebook << 2018-03-21 Criticism/thread: psychological control vector: https://twitter.com/fchollet/status/976563870322999296
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@fchollet The problem with Facebook is not *just* the loss of your privacy and the fact that it can be used as a totalitarian panopticon. The more worrying issue, in my opinion, is its use of digital information consumption as a psychological control vector. Time for a thread (twitter.com/_/status/976563870322999296)
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-03-21 Criticism/thread: psychological control vector: https://twitter.com/fchollet/status/976563870322999296" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
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tantek algorithmic feed << 2018-03-21 https://twitter.com/fchollet/status/976564511858597888
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@fchollet These two trends overlap at the level of the algorithms that shape our digital content consumption. Opaque social media algorithms get to decide, to an ever-increasing extent, which articles we read, who we keep in touch with, whose opinions we read, whose feedback we get (twitter.com/_/status/976564511858597888)
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-03-21 https://twitter.com/fchollet/status/976564511858597888" to the "See Also" section of /algorithmic_feed
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Zegnat What is snark?
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Loqi snark is an experimental post type to denote a sarcastic post https://indieweb.org/snark
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tantek algorithmic feed << 2018-03-21 https://twitter.com/fchollet/status/976565165922512897
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@fchollet Integrated over many years of exposure, the algorithmic curation of the information we consume gives the systems in charge considerable power over our lives, over who we become. By moving our lives to the digital realm, we become vulnerable to that which rules it -- AI algorithms (twitter.com/_/status/976565165922512897)
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-03-21 https://twitter.com/fchollet/status/976565165922512897" to the "See Also" section of /algorithmic_feed
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tantek what is sarcastic
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sarcastic" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "sarcastic is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is sarcasm
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sarcasm" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "sarcasm is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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toomim Wow, this is really impressive.
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toomim BTW this chat is way easier to read at chat.indieweb.org than riot.im. But somehow I keep getting emails that links me to the ugly riot UI.
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toomim I'm stoked to meet you wizards in person.
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toomim Will loqi be there?
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tantek sarcasm is the third to last refuge of the [[creator|uncreative]], the second being [[code-of-conduct|ad hominem]], and the last being [[repost]]s of [https://twitter.com/fchollet/status/976565165922512897 amygdala hijacks].
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@fchollet Integrated over many years of exposure, the algorithmic curation of the information we consume gives the systems in charge considerable power over our lives, over who we become. By moving our lives to the digital realm, we become vulnerable to that which rules it -- AI algorithms (twitter.com/_/status/976565165922512897)
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Loqi ok
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-03-23.html https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZAYO4IUMAAJZac.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/977307771623194625)
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[kevinmarks] Fchollet makes some good points, then falls for the fundamental attribution error at the end with his Facebook evil, Google good conclusion.
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tantek toomim, virtually, yes, we usually have a window open to the channel
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tantek s/Google good/Google less evil
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toomim I'm amazed.
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skippy anyone done any analysis of their visitor logs to see % of human visitors directly accessing pages versus subscribers hitting feed URLs?
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toomim Loki is a cultural record.
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tantek skippy not sure of any visitor log viewing features that make that easy without coding - perhaps there's folks in #indieweb-dev that have done that?
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tantek who is Loki
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tantek what is Loki
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Loqi Loki is a trickster Norse god, bearing no resemblance at all to Loqi, none at all, nothing to see here, move along https://indieweb.org/Loki
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@fsteeg “the myth that you have to self-host […] to be part of the IndieWeb. Owning your content isn’t about portable software. It’s about portable URLs and data. It’s about domain names.” http://www.manton.org/2018/03/indieweb-generation-4-and-hosted-domains.html — how that worked for me http://fsteeg.com/notes/owning-your-content-on-the-web (twitter.com/_/status/977311239322955776)
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skippy tantek: just curious if folks have a general feel for their visitor traffic distribution.
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tantek skippy, I don't know of any user-friendly ways to view visitor traffic distribution
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tantek maybe others do
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snarfed uh, google analytics etc? https://indieweb.org/analytics
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snarfed i know analytics is often frowned upon here, but there are lots of very mature, powerful tools
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snarfed even the stats you get from wordpress jetpack are pretty good
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tantek what is wordpress jetpack
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wordpress jetpack" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "wordpress jetpack is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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gRegorLove What is Jetpack?
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Loqi Jetpack is an opensource WordPress plugin that adds many site management tools including visitor stats, security services, performance improvements, and syndication options https://indieweb.org/Jetpack
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tantek snarfed, I don't know about analytics being frowned upon per se, perhaps a general lack of understanding of its value?
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snarfed wordpress jetpack is /Jetpack
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Loqi ok
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snarfed tantek: heh, i thought i remembered you being vaguely anti-analytics a while ago. maybe i misremembered
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tantek for example, I've never used Google analytics myself, nothing compelling enough for me to do so on https://indieweb.org/Google_Analytics#Features (added a stub / screenshots needed), and their own website google.com/analytics shows ZERO screenshots also, just a bunch of stock art of smiling/serious people + laptops and marketing microcopy
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tantek snarfed, more meh-analytics than anti-analytics
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snarfed heh ok!
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snarfed maybe more important for companies/orgs than individual people
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tantek oh wait upon rescrolling I saw half a screenshot
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tantek unclickable
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tantek snarfed, seriously, can you say what you find compelling on google.com/analytics (not signed in) ?
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skippy "Google Analytics Solutions offer marketing analytics products for businesses of all sizes to better understand your customers. " It's very much a biz oriented solution.
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skippy so you can know which links your customers are cliking; and see how they move through your site.
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skippy for regular users, something like an open source log parser will work fine to show them what content is most popular, and who theri primary sources of incoming links are.
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tantek skippy I cannot take "regular users" and "open source ... will work fine" seriously
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tantek maybe regular devs?
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skippy by that argument, what is a regular dev?
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skippy i understand the distinction you're making. Yes, as a long-time open source contributor, I tend to conflate "user" with someone a little more in the thick of it than you're thinking of, based on your response.
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skippy i mean, if you're going to go through the trouble of setting up a micropub endpoint with indieauth login and webmentions, then you're likely not going to be too scared to install piwik or awstats or similar.
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@alan_zimm @mobivangelist @RianVDM you guys should take a look at https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/977322608273346560)
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toomim Ah, indieauth doesn't like me, because my homepage is rendered client-side, and its page fetcher doesn't execute javascript.
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tantek skippy, yes I'd count those ("setting up a micropub endpoint with indieauth login and webmentions") as dev-level as well
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tantek skippy, I tend to think of "regular user" as https://indieweb.org/generations Generation 4
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swentel toomim yeah, I had that problem too on my site, added it in the intial response (and all my other feeds too in the end, it's kind of ironic)
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[kevinmarks] Evaluating java script to parse a page is a bit much for a crawler
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toomim Client vs. server-side rendering is one of the reasons we need a new HTTP.
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tantek toomim from your site (and what you're saying), looks/sounds like you may be more interested in #indieweb-dev
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toomim Alright
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