#indieweb 2018-03-25

2018-03-25 UTC
cdchapman and Sveta joined the channel
#
grantcodes
I'll be in New York in a month or two!
[cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
GWG
grantcodes: In time for an adhoc HWC?
#
grantcodes
Well hopefully I'll be there for more than a week
snarfed and rodney1 joined the channel
#
rodney1
Newbie here, got a quick question
#
GWG
How can we help, rodney1?
#
rodney1
I'm all in and ready to jump to the indieweb
#
rodney1
Is Known the main interface, I tired them out a while back but they seem a bit quiet lately
#
rodney1
Is Known the main interface, I tired them out a while back but they seem a bit quiet lately
#
rodney1
oops
#
rodney1
Or has wordpress become more a central player that can syndicate to G+,Twitter, FB, etc.?
#
rodney1
If some is just starting to take control of their online content what is the current suggestion on what to begin with?
wolftune and electronicmaji joined the channel
#
skippy
what are your immediate, and long-term, goals?
#
GWG
rodney1: I'm biased. I'm one of the WordPress members of the community.
#
skippy
a quick start would be to use something like micro.blog.
#
GWG
But, I agree with skippy. What do you want? Platforms are not important.
#
skippy
more time and energy are required to make WP or Known work.
#
skippy
do you want interactions with others? likes, replies, etc? or do you just want to post and own your content?
#
rodney1
I would like to be incontrol of all my online content. But family/other issues I like to be able to syndicate to FB/Twitter but deal with all that on a platform of my own.
#
skippy
start small, then make incremental steps. don't eat the whale all at once.
#
GWG
rodney1: Several good options for that
#
rodney1
The thing I really liked about known was "push this to all these other services" approach.
#
GWG
rodney1: The whole community does that. None of us want to lose conversations because the people we talk to aren't accessible to us
#
rodney1
I've got a domain, and a server, and a lot of linux experience so I'm not intimindated by those aspects
#
skippy
how active is Known development? how often are new releases pushed?
#
rodney1
seems to be trying to push into edu space, nothing on social media from them since last summer
#
rodney1
a RT on twitter about a bug is all I can find
#
GWG
rodney1: The hosted service, I gathered, didn't quite work out.
#
Loqi
[idno] Known: A social publishing platform.
#
GWG
Try the open source repo
#
skippy
you can also cook up any number of home grown solutions using Birdgy.
#
skippy
what is bridgy
#
Loqi
Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed and POSSE as a service https://indieweb.org/bridgy
#
GWG
Known still has an active community.
#
GWG
It's the hosted version that isn't as active.
#
rodney1
Oh.
#
GWG
Bridgy is actively developed, and can integrate into anything
Sveta left the channel
#
GWG
The idea is that we, as a community, come up with things that are easy for others to adopt
#
rodney1
So in terms of general cms, known and wpress are the main players.
#
GWG
rodney1: The main, easy to install ones, yes.
#
GWG
But, you have a bunch of homegrown solutions also
#
rodney1
Is there a wiki or other collection for some of these other solutions?
#
skippy
indieweb.org
#
skippy
indieweb.org/wordpress
#
rodney1
OK. Thank you very much skippy, GWG, and Loqi
#
rodney1
oooh. red wind...
#
rodney1
awesome.
#
GWG
I miss seeing kylewm around here.
#
Loqi
misses seeing kylewm around here too
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks]
We all do
renem joined the channel
#
dansup
nice to see lots of php projects
#
GWG
dansup: Isn't it?
#
dansup
yeah, I have an AS2 one I've been working on a lot lately, https://github.com/dansup/php-activitystreams
#
Loqi
[dansup] php-activitystreams: Activity Streams is a simple specification used to describe social actions around the web.
#
dansup
once i'm done that I will do an activitypub package
#
dansup
I implemented a league/fractal interface for transformers, so it will be easy to generate AS2 using a custom transformer.
#
GWG
I do everything in PHP. But my CMS is written in it, so I have to
#
dansup
Modern php is really nice, I'm working on some big improvements for gnu/social. This is just the beginning https://git.gnu.io/gnu/gnu-social/issues/308
electronicmaji, pjz and wolftune joined the channel
#
@schmarty
Facebook quitters, a Puny micropub server, and where’s the love for future generations? It's your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for March 17th - 23rd, 2018. https://martymcgui.re/2018/03/24/230918/
(twtr.io/1c1EuLV6yuw)
eli_oat, snarfed, wolftune and electronicmaji joined the channel
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook?" by EditorDavid on 2018-03-25 http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/dAZQFJ8vmzs/ask-slashdot-is-there-a-good-alternative-to-facebook
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook?" by EditorDavid on 2018-03-25 http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdotAskSlashdot/~3/dAZQFJ8vmzs/ask-slashdot-is-there-a-good-alternative-to-facebook
[miklb] and [snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed]
^ features indieweb, but also un-ironically recommends google+ 😂
snarfed and wolftune joined the channel
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook?" on 2018-03-25 http://tsecurity.de/de/289388/IT-Security/Nachrichten/Ask-Slashdot-Is-There-a-Good-Alternative-to-Facebook/
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook?" on 2018-03-25 http://tsecurity.de/de/289387/IT-Security/Nachrichten/Ask-Slashdot-Is-There-a-Good-Alternative-to-Facebook/
unicron joined the channel
#
@blaine
@buzz @hondanhon The question isn't hackability. I'm right there with you on hacker virtue signalling. I totally reject the "homebrew website / indieweb" stuff because it's premised on tech elitism. I don't want to maintain my own stuff; it's impossible.
(twtr.io/1c1NxwsXBMb)
[miklb], barpthewire, tantek and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie]
👆 That conversation seemed to switch quickly from Apple/Android to HWC/IndieWeb 😕
#
[eddie]
That seemed like a confusing switch lol
#
jjuran
Good night, fellow tech elitists B-)
#
Loqi
laila tov!
#
jjuran
Loqi: Ani lo medaber ivrit.
#
@blaine
@adactio We've talked about this, of course, but I think there have absolutely been elitist elements to the indieweb thing. Happy to discuss further, of course (but next ~36 hours largely offline)
(twtr.io/1c1ZjrGCYvV)
#
@huffduffer
This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • March 17th - 23rd, 2018 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/467687
(twtr.io/1c1aa3rUEnV)
#
@cswordpress
From way back in 2009, and yet sadly still very relevant. Privacy Theater: Why Social Networks Only Pretend To Protect You: https://buff.ly/2FXWynk by @rohitkhare From *2009*. #ownyourdata on the #indieweb before #Facebook or #DeleteFacebook https://buff.ly/2G3T4zC
(twtr.io/1c1cdHxppiV)
tantek, catsup, nitot and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks
@blaine @buzz @hondanhon It's a question of what you maintain and what you delegate. Indieweb says that delegating everything to Twitter or Facebook may not be the right tradeoff. Assuming that Facebook will get this right for everyone is even more tech elitist.
(twtr.io/1c1qdxASu4o)
#
Zegnat
Good morning IndieWeb
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook? (slashdot)" by EditorDavid on 2018-03-25 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FreshnewsMostClicked/~3/dAZQFJ8vmzs/ask-slashdot-is-there-a-good-alternative-to-facebook
#
sknebel
good morning Zegnat
KevinMarks, markong, Garbee and pindonga joined the channel
#
dgold
KevinMarks: I agree. hence my site using whitesmoke (#f5f5f5) background, not white, and eigengrau (#16161d) for body text
#
dgold
brings the contrast ratio to just above 16, which stops the formation of artefacting in my vision
eli_oat and electronicmaji joined the channel
#
pjz
Meh, Indieweb seems fine with delegating to github
#
pjz
or to other (infrastructure) service providers
#
pjz
I think the difference is that the delegation needs to be at the infrastructure level, not application or content level
#
GWG
pjz: Delegating what specifically?
KevinMarks, electronicmaji, eli_oat and swentel joined the channel
#
@HongPong
i have dabbled in #indieweb tech incl some work on http://drupal.org/project/linkback which does #webmention protocol so I've been following this a while.
(twtr.io/1c2H3JVRn1L)
electronicmaji joined the channel
#
aaronpk
good morning!
#
swentel
morning
#
Loqi
guten morgen
#
Zegnat
Hellow aaronpk!
#
@HongPong
Mastodon software brought 1 million users into #activitypub network! (applause) peertube / mastodon interop demo @Gargron #indieweb #LibrePlanet https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZJJp2qXkAAA7u2.jpg
(twtr.io/1c2Jrd952_f)
#
@swentel
Video sneak preview of Indigenous on #android: authentication, channel and items reading (basic); Oh and posting a note with image to my site :) #indieweb #drupal (https://realize.be/notes/1333)
(twtr.io/1c2JzGVw5kc)
#
swentel
mm interesting, bridgy didn't take the video
#
swentel
let me do that again :)
#
Salt[m]
fun watching aaronpk and tantek on cwebber's slides about ActivityPub @ LibrePlanet
#
Salt[m]
s/watching/seeing
#
@swentel
Video sneak preview of Indigenous on #android: authentication, channel and items reading (basic); Oh and posting a note with image to my site :) #indieweb #drupal (https://realize.be/notes/1333 ) https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/977926060808556544/pu/img/OxsoazzFQ9emwOC3.jpg
(twtr.io/1c2KCkc3yrm)
#
aaronpk
oof that makes me want to make the indieauth.com page look better
#
aaronpk
swentel++ that's great
#
swentel
thanks, it's fun :)
KevinMarks, KartikPrabhu, wolftune, snarfed and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie]
swentel++ awesome job. It’s moving along quickly!
#
Loqi
swentel has 3 karma
#
@clochix
Une solution pourrait être de toujours publier chez soi et de dupliquer partout (POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE ) mais il me semble que les commandement du SEO édictés par Google déconseillent ce genre de pratique
(twtr.io/1c2R2qRQqR5)
#
swentel
[eddie], oh yes, quicker than I expected
#
swentel
otoh, de 'debug' windown in monocle makes it extremely easy :)
#
aaronpk
oh good
#
swentel
oh yes, please don't remove that yet :)
#
[eddie]
adactio++ great responses to the tweets during US night time
#
Loqi
adactio has 38 karma in this channel (44 overall)
#
[eddie]
kevinmarks++ for the same thing
#
Loqi
kevinmarks has 222 karma in this channel (300 overall)
#
GWG
You're the one doing the Android client?
#
GWG
Tell me if you need alpha testing
KevinMarks and tbbrown joined the channel
#
@AshTreadstone
fsf: RT @HongPong: Mastodon software brought 1 million users into #activitypub network! (applause) peertube / mastodon interop demo @Gargron #indieweb #LibrePlanet https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZJJp2qXkAAA7u2.jpg
(twtr.io/1c2Uc4zLWHc)
AngeloGladding joined the channel
wolftune, tantek and kaushalmod joined the channel
#
kaushalmod
(well mistyped my handle.. meant kaushalmodi)
eli_oat joined the channel
#
kaushalmod
@gRegorLove You test reply post worked! See my implementation on Hugo based site :) https://scripter.co/git-diff-minified-js-and-css/#webmentions
#
kaushalmod
@cweiske Thanks for your incredible help! See the above ^ example.. Looks like I am making a bit of a progress towards Disqus elimination from my site :D
#
kaushalmod
I can probably use Twitter as a commenting medium
#
@kaushalmodi
@_am1t @ChrisAldrich @_dgoldsmith Thanks for your collective help! I am making some progress in indiewebifying my blog :D https://scripter.co/git-diff-minified-js-and-css/#webmentions
(twtr.io/1c2Y3xtjc7C)
#
dgold
KevinMarks: and I don't need to read research; this is my lived experience, fwtw
eli_oat joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
Awesome, kaushalmod!
KevinMarks_ and cweiske joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
"Facebook provides a way for users to purge collected contact data from their accounts" article doesn't seem to instruct/link to how. Anybody know?
#
gRegorLove
Yep. Direct link if you're logged in to FB: https://www.facebook.com/invite_history.php
#
gRegorLove
"Contacts imported (not yet invited)." For me: "Displaying 1014 contacts"
#
gRegorLove
Separate link for contacts uploaded in Messenger: https://www.facebook.com/mobile/messenger/contacts/
#
@CodingItWrong
@jntrnr @TobiasBieniek https://indieweb.org/ is a thing but I’m not sure if it’ll catch on
(twtr.io/1c2iiTQYZqw)
KevinMarks, tantek and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "An Introduction to the IndieWeb" by Pilch on 2018-03-25 http://boffosocko.com/2017/07/28/an-introduction-to-the-indieweb
#
tantek
good day #indieweb
#
tantek
[eddie], just trying to read-up on that Twitter thread now
#
@iamjeffperry
I honestly would love anyone's input on where they think blogging will be in the next 10 years. Personally, I would love more people to embrace the IndieWeb and bring back RSS but I think we are just going to move to Facebook 2.0 or some other variant.
(twtr.io/1c2muQ1TQ14)
#
Loqi
[gRegor Morrill] If you’ve ever had the Facebook app installed on your phone, you should check on the contacts it has uploaded and information it has tracked. Per the Ars Technica article linked below, Facebook was collecting your call and SMS logs from Android pho...
#
gRegorLove
IndieNews worthy?
#
tantek
adactio++ for replying to blaine with appropriate analogies and humore https://twitter.com/adactio/status/977795795910045696
#
Loqi
adactio has 39 karma in this channel (45 overall)
#
@adactio
@blaine You know what really grinds my gears? Food virtue signalling. I totally reject the “kitchen/cooking” stuff because it’s premised on culinary elitism.
(twtr.io/1c1YcMEYS1b)
#
tantek
gRegorLove: worth documenting in /Facebook#Criticism also?
#
tantek
another threaad on that same Ars Technica article (just noticed thanks to [eddie]) https://twitter.com/hondanhon/status/977744541825474560
#
@hondanhon
Facebook on Android: uploaded all your call log data I *think* I’m right in that iOS has never had a public API to access the call log? https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/03/facebook-scraped-call-text-message-data-for-years-from-android-phones/
(twtr.io/1c1EJo43rpL)
#
tantek
oh hey just saw that [cleverdevil] is visiting SF soon.
#
tantek
!tell [cleverdevil] How late are you in SF on Wednesday?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
electronicmaji and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks]
Facebook messenger on android wants to be your smart client. If it is that, sms history is justifiable, call history less so. Trawling it broadly is dodgy.
#
@EddieHinkle
@blaine @adactio As with anything, there will always be people on all spectrums of belief. But just know, the IndieWeb has defined 4 generations of potential users (https://indieweb.org/generations) because we believe that a world can exist where people that don’t have to build (https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/03/25/18/reply/)
(twtr.io/1c2oWq9kegs)
#
@EddieHinkle
@blaine @adactio their own website in order to own their data. However until the tooling is advanced enough, only the earlier generations will be able to effectively own their data. #indieweb
(twtr.io/1c2oaag1fLN)
#
tantek
[eddie]++ well written
#
Loqi
eddie has 21 karma in this channel (52 overall)
#
tantek
!tell [eddie] though check your permalink in that tweet? https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/03/25/18/reply/ I'm seeing a 404
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
Loqi
Eddie Hinkle
#
tantek
going to try gather some of the questions / misconceptions from that HN thread to answer later
#
tantek
POSSE << HN ibid: "Why won't a link on these platforms suffice since they have their "cards"?"
#
Loqi
ok, I added "HN ibid: "Why won't a link on these platforms suffice since they have their "cards"?"" to the "See Also" section of /POSSE
[eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie]
tantek: Jekyll’s rebuiding. Haha
#
Loqi
[eddie]: lol
#
[eddie]
I had Jekyll down to like 5 min rebuild but importing past Facebook posts it’s back to 15 minutes so I think I’m definitely on the verge of needing to just build a dynamic interface in my Node.js server rather than using Jekyll to build it
#
[eddie]
Oops that#dev
#
tantek
POSSE << HN ibid: "This is an interesting thing, but too complicated and over-broad for the mere-mortal." <-- page introduction needs simplifying, simpler instructions to setup POSSE, acknowledge where POSSE usability is in the [[Generations]] spectrum
#
Loqi
ok, I added "HN ibid: "This is an interesting thing, but too complicated and over-broad for the mere-mortal." <-- page introduction needs simplifying, simpler instructions to setup POSSE, acknowledge where POSSE usability is in the [[Generations]] spectrum" to the "See Also" section of /POSSE
#
tantek
POSSE << HN ibid: "Facebook is just a glorified RSS feed with centralized discover ability." <-- debunk with comparing [[Facebook#Features]] (and [[Twitter#Features]]) vs RSS plumbing feature set. A visual diagram/table comparison might help.
#
Loqi
ok, I added "HN ibid: "Facebook is just a glorified RSS feed with centralized discover ability." <-- debunk with comparing [[Facebook#Features]] (and [[Twitter#Features]]) vs RSS plumbing feature set. A visual diagram/table comparison might help." to the "See Also" section of /POSSE
#
tantek
HN ibid: "This really is not possible with RSS at all, especially since the silos don’t want to support RSS in any meaningful way." <-- perhaps add a whole subsection in "Why" explaining why RSS is insufficient compared to POSSE.
#
tantek
POSSE << HN ibid: "This really is not possible with RSS at all, especially since the silos don’t want to support RSS in any meaningful way." <-- perhaps add a whole subsection in "Why" explaining why RSS is insufficient compared to POSSE.
#
Loqi
ok, I added "HN ibid: "This really is not possible with RSS at all, especially since the silos don’t want to support RSS in any meaningful way." <-- perhaps add a whole subsection in "Why" explaining why RSS is insufficient compared to POSSE." to the "See Also" section of /POSSE
#
[eddie]
tantek: I wonder if some of this type of stuff is better in Meta? Even though it deals with general UX topics, the format isn’t especially welcoming to new people.
#
gRegorLove
[kevinmarks]: I've not used FB Messenger before. Does it let you use it as your main SMS app, like Hangouts used to? Then I guess it would make sense to have SMS history
#
tantek
[eddie] yeah I considered it. Seemed user-feature focused enough to note here but definitely borderline meta
#
tantek
those were the only things I thought worth following up on in the HN thread.
#
[kevinmarks]
It has a "see sms conversations in messenger" setting
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "The internet that took over the Internet" on 2018-03-25 https://petermolnar.net/internet-emotional-core/
#
@sdepolo
To #DeleteFacebook or not? #springCleaning #Retrograde #resist #enoughIsEnough #IndieWeb https://www.pscp.tv/w/bYgMQDFkdkVPUm1HTWxqWGV8MXJteFBtYndFUlZLTipV3pXoJJe8TdcTF89vU_WXqWJYDhi34etsqSuh2kyu
(twtr.io/1c2t6UFewDs)
#
tantek
petermolnar++ https://petermolnar.net/internet-emotional-core/ <-- worth submitting to indienews
#
Loqi
petermolnar has 31 karma in this channel (52 overall)
#
Loqi
[Peter Molnar] The internet that took over the Internet
#
Loqi
[indienews] New post: "The internet that took over the Internet" https://petermolnar.net/internet-emotional-core/
KevinMarks, snarfed, electronicmaji and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil]
!tell tantek I’m leaving from SFO around 5 Wednesday. Meeting [snarfed] around 2 PM before I leave next to SFO. I’ll also be back in SF the following week T-Fr.
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek
[cleverdevil]: in that case, perhaps you can make it to our 404 HWC meetup?
#
[cleverdevil]
When/where?
#
tantek
2018-04-04 (Wednesday) 17:30-19:30 @MozSF
#
[cleverdevil]
Definitely possible!
#
[cleverdevil]
I’ll put it on my calendar.
#
[cleverdevil]
At least for part of it.
#
tantek
would be great to have you and give a brief summary of how you exported yourself from FB (even before the current CA nonsense)
#
tantek
and perhaps a /Together demo?
#
[cleverdevil]
Yeah I’ll connect with you before then. I’ll be at the AWS Summit SF all day, but I don’t have evening plans so that could definitely work out.
#
tantek
awesome!
chrisaldrich joined the channel
#
chrisaldrich
404 sounds like a good day to schedule planned /silo-quits....
#
KartikPrabhu
chrisaldrich: that is an ordinal date right? ;)
#
KartikPrabhu
but that is invalid
#
chrisaldrich
04/04 or 4/04, though I suppose because it's the same, it reads properly in both the US and in other countries that swap the numbers...
#
chrisaldrich
What is Libre Planet?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Libre Planet" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Libre Planet is ____", a sentence describing the term)
jgee, snarfed, seekr and KartikPrabhu joined the channel