#indieweb 2018-03-25

2018-03-25 UTC
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grantcodes I'll be in New York in a month or two!
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GWG grantcodes: In time for an adhoc HWC?
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grantcodes Well hopefully I'll be there for more than a week
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rodney1 Newbie here, got a quick question
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GWG How can we help, rodney1?
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rodney1 I'm all in and ready to jump to the indieweb
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rodney1 Is Known the main interface, I tired them out a while back but they seem a bit quiet lately
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rodney1 Is Known the main interface, I tired them out a while back but they seem a bit quiet lately
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rodney1 oops
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rodney1 Or has wordpress become more a central player that can syndicate to G+,Twitter, FB, etc.?
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rodney1 If some is just starting to take control of their online content what is the current suggestion on what to begin with?
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skippy what are your immediate, and long-term, goals?
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GWG rodney1: I'm biased. I'm one of the WordPress members of the community.
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skippy a quick start would be to use something like micro.blog.
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GWG But, I agree with skippy. What do you want? Platforms are not important.
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skippy more time and energy are required to make WP or Known work.
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skippy do you want interactions with others? likes, replies, etc? or do you just want to post and own your content?
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rodney1 I would like to be incontrol of all my online content. But family/other issues I like to be able to syndicate to FB/Twitter but deal with all that on a platform of my own.
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skippy start small, then make incremental steps. don't eat the whale all at once.
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GWG rodney1: Several good options for that
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rodney1 The thing I really liked about known was "push this to all these other services" approach.
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GWG rodney1: The whole community does that. None of us want to lose conversations because the people we talk to aren't accessible to us
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rodney1 I've got a domain, and a server, and a lot of linux experience so I'm not intimindated by those aspects
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skippy how active is Known development? how often are new releases pushed?
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rodney1 seems to be trying to push into edu space, nothing on social media from them since last summer
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rodney1 a RT on twitter about a bug is all I can find
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GWG rodney1: The hosted service, I gathered, didn't quite work out.
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GWG https://github.com/idno/Known
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Loqi [idno] Known: A social publishing platform.
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GWG Try the open source repo
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skippy you can also cook up any number of home grown solutions using Birdgy.
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skippy what is bridgy
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Loqi Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed and POSSE as a service https://indieweb.org/bridgy
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GWG Known still has an active community.
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GWG It's the hosted version that isn't as active.
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rodney1 Oh.
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GWG Bridgy is actively developed, and can integrate into anything
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GWG The idea is that we, as a community, come up with things that are easy for others to adopt
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rodney1 So in terms of general cms, known and wpress are the main players.
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GWG rodney1: The main, easy to install ones, yes.
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GWG But, you have a bunch of homegrown solutions also
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rodney1 Is there a wiki or other collection for some of these other solutions?
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skippy indieweb.org
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skippy indieweb.org/wordpress
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skippy etc
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rodney1 OK. Thank you very much skippy, GWG, and Loqi
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GWG rodney1: Try this https://indieweb.org/projects
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rodney1 oooh. red wind...
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rodney1 awesome.
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GWG I miss seeing kylewm around here.
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Loqi misses seeing kylewm around here too
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[kevinmarks] We all do
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dansup nice to see lots of php projects
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GWG dansup: Isn't it?
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dansup yeah, I have an AS2 one I've been working on a lot lately, https://github.com/dansup/php-activitystreams
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Loqi [dansup] php-activitystreams: Activity Streams is a simple specification used to describe social actions around the web.
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dansup once i'm done that I will do an activitypub package
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dansup I implemented a league/fractal interface for transformers, so it will be easy to generate AS2 using a custom transformer.
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dansup http://fractal.thephpleague.com/transformers/
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GWG I do everything in PHP. But my CMS is written in it, so I have to
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dansup Modern php is really nice, I'm working on some big improvements for gnu/social. This is just the beginning https://git.gnu.io/gnu/gnu-social/issues/308
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@schmarty Facebook quitters, a Puny micropub server, and where’s the love for future generations? It's your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for March 17th - 23rd, 2018. https://martymcgui.re/2018/03/24/230918/ (twitter.com/_/status/977746199993348096)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook?" by EditorDavid on 2018-03-25 http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/dAZQFJ8vmzs/ask-slashdot-is-there-a-good-alternative-to-facebook
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook?" by EditorDavid on 2018-03-25 https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/03/25/0039218/ask-slashdot-is-there-a-good-alternative-to-facebook?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook?" by EditorDavid on 2018-03-25 http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdotAskSlashdot/~3/dAZQFJ8vmzs/ask-slashdot-is-there-a-good-alternative-to-facebook
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[snarfed] ^ features indieweb, but also un-ironically recommends google+ 😂
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook?" on 2018-03-25 http://tsecurity.de/de/289388/IT-Security/Nachrichten/Ask-Slashdot-Is-There-a-Good-Alternative-to-Facebook/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook?" on 2018-03-25 http://tsecurity.de/de/289387/IT-Security/Nachrichten/Ask-Slashdot-Is-There-a-Good-Alternative-to-Facebook/
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@blaine @buzz @hondanhon The question isn't hackability. I'm right there with you on hacker virtue signalling. I totally reject the "homebrew website / indieweb" stuff because it's premised on tech elitism. I don't want to maintain my own stuff; it's impossible. (twitter.com/_/status/977768763138256896)
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[eddie] 👆 That conversation seemed to switch quickly from Apple/Android to HWC/IndieWeb 😕
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[eddie] That seemed like a confusing switch lol
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jjuran Good night, fellow tech elitists B-)
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Loqi laila tov!
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jjuran Loqi: Ani lo medaber ivrit.
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@blaine @adactio We've talked about this, of course, but I think there have absolutely been elitist elements to the indieweb thing. Happy to discuss further, of course (but next ~36 hours largely offline) (twitter.com/_/status/977798945211670529)
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@huffduffer This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • March 17th - 23rd, 2018 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/467687 (twitter.com/_/status/977804087159861249)
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@cswordpress From way back in 2009, and yet sadly still very relevant. Privacy Theater: Why Social Networks Only Pretend To Protect You: https://buff.ly/2FXWynk by @rohitkhare From *2009*. #ownyourdata on the #indieweb before #Facebook or #DeleteFacebook https://buff.ly/2G3T4zC (twitter.com/_/status/977809836816683009)
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@kevinmarks @blaine @buzz @hondanhon It's a question of what you maintain and what you delegate. Indieweb says that delegating everything to Twitter or Facebook may not be the right tradeoff. Assuming that Facebook will get this right for everyone is even more tech elitist. (twitter.com/_/status/977846258986610688)
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Ask Slashdot: Is There a Good Alternative to Facebook? (slashdot)" by EditorDavid on 2018-03-25 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FreshnewsMostClicked/~3/dAZQFJ8vmzs/ask-slashdot-is-there-a-good-alternative-to-facebook
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sknebel good morning Zegnat
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dgold KevinMarks: I agree. hence my site using whitesmoke (#f5f5f5) background, not white, and eigengrau (#16161d) for body text
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dgold brings the contrast ratio to just above 16, which stops the formation of artefacting in my vision
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pjz Meh, Indieweb seems fine with delegating to github
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pjz or to other (infrastructure) service providers
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pjz I think the difference is that the delegation needs to be at the infrastructure level, not application or content level
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GWG pjz: Delegating what specifically?
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@HongPong i have dabbled in #indieweb tech incl some work on http://drupal.org/project/linkback which does #webmention protocol so I've been following this a while. (twitter.com/_/status/977920178666209280)
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aaronpk good morning!
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swentel morning
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Loqi guten morgen
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Zegnat Hellow aaronpk!
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@HongPong Mastodon software brought 1 million users into #activitypub network! (applause) peertube / mastodon interop demo @Gargron #indieweb #LibrePlanet https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZJJp2qXkAAA7u2.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/977925232802529280)
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@swentel Video sneak preview of Indigenous on #android: authentication, channel and items reading (basic); Oh and posting a note with image to my site :) #indieweb #drupal (https://realize.be/notes/1333) (twitter.com/_/status/977925589213556737)
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swentel mm interesting, bridgy didn't take the video
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swentel let me do that again :)
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Salt[m] fun watching aaronpk and tantek on cwebber's slides about ActivityPub @ LibrePlanet
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Salt[m] s/watching/seeing
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@swentel Video sneak preview of Indigenous on #android: authentication, channel and items reading (basic); Oh and posting a note with image to my site :) #indieweb #drupal (https://realize.be/notes/1333 ) https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/977926060808556544/pu/img/OxsoazzFQ9emwOC3.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/977926218384379906)
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aaronpk oof that makes me want to make the indieauth.com page look better
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aaronpk swentel++ that's great
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swentel thanks, it's fun :)
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[eddie] swentel++ awesome job. It’s moving along quickly!
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Loqi swentel has 3 karma
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@clochix Une solution pourrait être de toujours publier chez soi et de dupliquer partout (POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE ) mais il me semble que les commandement du SEO édictés par Google déconseillent ce genre de pratique (twitter.com/_/status/977942551721365505)
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swentel [eddie], oh yes, quicker than I expected
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swentel otoh, de 'debug' windown in monocle makes it extremely easy :)
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aaronpk oh good
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swentel oh yes, please don't remove that yet :)
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[eddie] adactio++ great responses to the tweets during US night time
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Loqi adactio has 38 karma in this channel (44 overall)
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[eddie] kevinmarks++ for the same thing
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Loqi kevinmarks has 222 karma in this channel (300 overall)
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GWG You're the one doing the Android client?
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GWG Tell me if you need alpha testing
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@AshTreadstone fsf: RT @HongPong: Mastodon software brought 1 million users into #activitypub network! (applause) peertube / mastodon interop demo @Gargron #indieweb #LibrePlanet https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZJJp2qXkAAA7u2.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/977952547431469057)
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@mastersonj @laxmisarathy @anildash @facebook @WestHillLibrary The time for #indieweb is now! @kevinmarks https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ftApyXJJmKA (twitter.com/_/status/977955595058737153)
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kaushalmod (well mistyped my handle.. meant kaushalmodi)
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kaushalmod @gRegorLove You test reply post worked! See my implementation on Hugo based site :) https://scripter.co/git-diff-minified-js-and-css/#webmentions
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kaushalmod @cweiske Thanks for your incredible help! See the above ^ example.. Looks like I am making a bit of a progress towards Disqus elimination from my site :D
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kaushalmod I can probably use Twitter as a commenting medium
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@kaushalmodi @_am1t @ChrisAldrich @_dgoldsmith Thanks for your collective help! I am making some progress in indiewebifying my blog :D https://scripter.co/git-diff-minified-js-and-css/#webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/977962199707717632)
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dgold KevinMarks: and I don't need to read research; this is my lived experience, fwtw
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gRegorLove Awesome, kaushalmod!
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gRegorLove https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/03/facebook-scraped-call-text-message-data-for-years-from-android-phones/
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gRegorLove "Facebook provides a way for users to purge collected contact data from their accounts" article doesn't seem to instruct/link to how. Anybody know?
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gRegorLove This appears to be the answer: https://www.facebook.com/help/147699975301738?helpref=faq_content
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gRegorLove Yep. Direct link if you're logged in to FB: https://www.facebook.com/invite_history.php
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gRegorLove "Contacts imported (not yet invited)." For me: "Displaying 1014 contacts"
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gRegorLove Separate link for contacts uploaded in Messenger: https://www.facebook.com/mobile/messenger/contacts/
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@CodingItWrong @jntrnr @TobiasBieniek https://indieweb.org/ is a thing but I’m not sure if it’ll catch on (twitter.com/_/status/977994835201273856)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "An Introduction to the IndieWeb" by Pilch on 2018-03-25 http://boffosocko.com/2017/07/28/an-introduction-to-the-indieweb
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tantek good day #indieweb
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tantek [eddie], just trying to read-up on that Twitter thread now
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@iamjeffperry I honestly would love anyone's input on where they think blogging will be in the next 10 years. Personally, I would love more people to embrace the IndieWeb and bring back RSS but I think we are just going to move to Facebook 2.0 or some other variant. (twitter.com/_/status/978003743865278464)
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gRegorLove Wrote up a post: https://gregorlove.com/2018/03/if-youve-ever-had-the/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] If you’ve ever had the Facebook app installed on your phone, you should check on the contacts it has uploaded and information it has tracked. Per the Ars Technica article linked below, Facebook was collecting your call and SMS logs from Android pho...
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gRegorLove IndieNews worthy?
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tantek yes
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tantek adactio++ for replying to blaine with appropriate analogies and humore https://twitter.com/adactio/status/977795795910045696
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Loqi adactio has 39 karma in this channel (45 overall)
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@adactio @blaine You know what really grinds my gears? Food virtue signalling. I totally reject the “kitchen/cooking” stuff because it’s premised on culinary elitism. (twitter.com/_/status/977795795910045696)
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tantek gRegorLove: worth documenting in /Facebook#Criticism also?
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tantek another threaad on that same Ars Technica article (just noticed thanks to [eddie]) https://twitter.com/hondanhon/status/977744541825474560
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@hondanhon Facebook on Android: uploaded all your call log data I *think* I’m right in that iOS has never had a public API to access the call log? https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/03/facebook-scraped-call-text-message-data-for-years-from-android-phones/ (twitter.com/_/status/977744541825474560)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://gregorlove.com/2018/03/if-youve-ever-had-the/
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tantek oh hey just saw that [cleverdevil] is visiting SF soon.
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tantek !tell [cleverdevil] How late are you in SF on Wednesday?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[kevinmarks] Facebook messenger on android wants to be your smart client. If it is that, sms history is justifiable, call history less so. Trawling it broadly is dodgy.
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@EddieHinkle @blaine @adactio As with anything, there will always be people on all spectrums of belief. But just know, the IndieWeb has defined 4 generations of potential users (https://indieweb.org/generations) because we believe that a world can exist where people that don’t have to build (https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/03/25/18/reply/) (twitter.com/_/status/978008243166502912)
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@EddieHinkle @blaine @adactio their own website in order to own their data. However until the tooling is advanced enough, only the earlier generations will be able to effectively own their data. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/978008465187721222)
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tantek [eddie]++ well written
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Loqi eddie has 21 karma in this channel (52 overall)
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tantek !tell [eddie] though check your permalink in that tweet? https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/03/25/18/reply/ I'm seeing a 404
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Eddie Hinkle
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tantek going to try gather some of the questions / misconceptions from that HN thread to answer later
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tantek POSSE << HN ibid: "Why won't a link on these platforms suffice since they have their "cards"?"
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Loqi ok, I added "HN ibid: "Why won't a link on these platforms suffice since they have their "cards"?"" to the "See Also" section of /POSSE
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[eddie] tantek: Jekyll’s rebuiding. Haha
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Loqi [eddie]: lol
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[eddie] I had Jekyll down to like 5 min rebuild but importing past Facebook posts it’s back to 15 minutes so I think I’m definitely on the verge of needing to just build a dynamic interface in my Node.js server rather than using Jekyll to build it
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[eddie] Oops that#dev
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tantek POSSE << HN ibid: "This is an interesting thing, but too complicated and over-broad for the mere-mortal." <-- page introduction needs simplifying, simpler instructions to setup POSSE, acknowledge where POSSE usability is in the [[Generations]] spectrum
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Loqi ok, I added "HN ibid: "This is an interesting thing, but too complicated and over-broad for the mere-mortal." <-- page introduction needs simplifying, simpler instructions to setup POSSE, acknowledge where POSSE usability is in the [[Generations]] spectrum" to the "See Also" section of /POSSE
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tantek POSSE << HN ibid: "Facebook is just a glorified RSS feed with centralized discover ability." <-- debunk with comparing [[Facebook#Features]] (and [[Twitter#Features]]) vs RSS plumbing feature set. A visual diagram/table comparison might help.
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Loqi ok, I added "HN ibid: "Facebook is just a glorified RSS feed with centralized discover ability." <-- debunk with comparing [[Facebook#Features]] (and [[Twitter#Features]]) vs RSS plumbing feature set. A visual diagram/table comparison might help." to the "See Also" section of /POSSE
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tantek HN ibid: "This really is not possible with RSS at all, especially since the silos don’t want to support RSS in any meaningful way." <-- perhaps add a whole subsection in "Why" explaining why RSS is insufficient compared to POSSE.
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tantek POSSE << HN ibid: "This really is not possible with RSS at all, especially since the silos don’t want to support RSS in any meaningful way." <-- perhaps add a whole subsection in "Why" explaining why RSS is insufficient compared to POSSE.
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Loqi ok, I added "HN ibid: "This really is not possible with RSS at all, especially since the silos don’t want to support RSS in any meaningful way." <-- perhaps add a whole subsection in "Why" explaining why RSS is insufficient compared to POSSE." to the "See Also" section of /POSSE
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[eddie] tantek: I wonder if some of this type of stuff is better in Meta? Even though it deals with general UX topics, the format isn’t especially welcoming to new people.
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gRegorLove [kevinmarks]: I've not used FB Messenger before. Does it let you use it as your main SMS app, like Hangouts used to? Then I guess it would make sense to have SMS history
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tantek [eddie] yeah I considered it. Seemed user-feature focused enough to note here but definitely borderline meta
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tantek those were the only things I thought worth following up on in the HN thread.
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[kevinmarks] It has a "see sms conversations in messenger" setting
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Loqi [superfeedr] "The internet that took over the Internet" on 2018-03-25 https://petermolnar.net/internet-emotional-core/
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@sdepolo To #DeleteFacebook or not? #springCleaning #Retrograde #resist #enoughIsEnough #IndieWeb https://www.pscp.tv/w/bYgMQDFkdkVPUm1HTWxqWGV8MXJteFBtYndFUlZLTipV3pXoJJe8TdcTF89vU_WXqWJYDhi34etsqSuh2kyu (twitter.com/_/status/978021103191826432)
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tantek petermolnar++ https://petermolnar.net/internet-emotional-core/ <-- worth submitting to indienews
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Loqi petermolnar has 31 karma in this channel (52 overall)
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Loqi [Peter Molnar] The internet that took over the Internet
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "The internet that took over the Internet" https://petermolnar.net/internet-emotional-core/
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[cleverdevil] !tell tantek I’m leaving from SFO around 5 Wednesday. Meeting [snarfed] around 2 PM before I leave next to SFO. I’ll also be back in SF the following week T-Fr.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek [cleverdevil]: in that case, perhaps you can make it to our 404 HWC meetup?
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[cleverdevil] When/where?
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tantek 2018-04-04 (Wednesday) 17:30-19:30 @MozSF
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[cleverdevil] Definitely possible!
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[cleverdevil] I’ll put it on my calendar.
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[cleverdevil] At least for part of it.
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tantek would be great to have you and give a brief summary of how you exported yourself from FB (even before the current CA nonsense)
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tantek and perhaps a /Together demo?
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[cleverdevil] Yeah I’ll connect with you before then. I’ll be at the AWS Summit SF all day, but I don’t have evening plans so that could definitely work out.
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tantek awesome!
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chrisaldrich 404 sounds like a good day to schedule planned /silo-quits....
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KartikPrabhu chrisaldrich: that is an ordinal date right? ;)
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KartikPrabhu but that is invalid
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chrisaldrich 04/04 or 4/04, though I suppose because it's the same, it reads properly in both the US and in other countries that swap the numbers...
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chrisaldrich What is Libre Planet?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Libre Planet" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Libre Planet is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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