#indieweb 2018-04-03

2018-04-03 UTC
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tantek skippy: why too many? better than too few!
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tantek plus compare in contrast to all the technologies, standards, etc. out there with zero documented examples of people actually supporting them.
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tantek though perhaps this is more relevant for #Indieweb-dev, since it impacts which technologies have developer critical mass
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skippy tantek: it can be overwhelming to see so many examples, each different in implementation. which is most like what *I* want? it can be frustrating to see a decade old example of something: is it still relevant? How do I, as a new user, know whether this wiki page is maintained, versus suffering link rot?
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skippy i agree that too few examples is just as bad.
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skippy but it's intimidating for me as a new user to wade through the wiki.
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tantek skippy, history of each page provides a rough indicator of recency
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tantek skippy, even individual pages can be intimidating, and there's definitely an effort to make them more approachable!
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tantek feel free to speak up (if not here, then in #Indieweb-meta) if and when you find pages that are intimidating
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skippy sure; but are you reall suggesting that you want new users to have to check the edit history of pages? that's a pretty poor user experience for new participants. :(
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skippy i'm not trying to be antogonistic. content curation and management is *hard*.
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tantek also why is it frustrating to see a decade old example of something? doesn't that indicate longevity and stability?
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mblaney Just noticed my Australian hosting provider now offers known pre-installed: https://networkpresence.com.au/hosting/appliances/known-appliance-1-detail.html
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tantek whoa very cool
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tantek mblaney: are they listed on /webhost ?
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mblaney no but I'm happy to add them.
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mblaney I use their VPS services, though it looks like their "known appliance" is more restricted than a VPS. I wonder if the webhost page needs an "appliance server" section?
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tantek please do (add them) :)
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@ChrisAldrich 🔖 IndieWeb Module for Drupal This looks like a tremendous step forward for folks who want to join the #IndieWeb via @drupal . Kudos to @swentel for some fantastic looking opensource work.​​​​​​​​ http://boffosocko.com/2018/03/31/indieweb-module-for-drupal/ (twitter.com/_/status/980992649921363968)
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@Johannes_Ernst Hey @benwerd, anybody at @mattervc building something like this? Want ... https://upon2020.com/blog/2018/04/how-id-like-to-consume-interact-with-my-news/ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/981018314305515520)
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@clacke . @mapkyca I found https://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2014/07/10/summary-federated-friending-and-signon-in-a-distributed-social-network/ . Good stuff! And I see that https://mapkyca.com/ is running #Known. :-) What became of those experiments? What is the status on #IndieWeb support in #elgg today, and/or is anyone looking into #ActivityPub support? (twitter.com/_/status/981025215441395712)
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KartikPrabhu no wiki is meant to be read in its entirity!
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jalcine how does syncing usernames to one's profile on the Wiki work?
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Zegnat jalcine, can you be more specific? So you mean the usernames on chat.indieweb.org?
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jalcine yeah
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jalcine like I notice some people have avatars associated with their nicks on there
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jalcine is it because of the slack bridge?
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jalcine not a big deal
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jalcine curious more than anything else
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Zegnat Those are taken from https://indieweb.org/IRC_People
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Zegnat Feel free to add yourself there!
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jalcine awesome! thanks
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sl007 https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/02/instagram-api-limit/
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Zegnat Seeing as Instagram is slowly deprecating its entire API platform anyway, I am not sure of the longterm consequences of that.
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[kevinmarks] Facebook is using the CA crisis as an excuse to cut off developers that act as tools for the user.
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Zegnat [kevinmarks], but Instagram has wanted to keep non-business users out of their API for a while now. By 2020, I think they want to be 100% business users. Just shows that even a personal picture sharing website will not be friendly against individual users.
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sknebel good morning
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb Good Morning sknebel
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@martinlindner falls die europäer es wirklich ernst meinen würden mit dem eigenem weg im netz: dann müssten sie #mozilla & #indieweb fördern. (twitter.com/_/status/981105451264806912)
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@cainsan En un rato, a eso de las 13h, en @CadenaSerBurgos hablaremos en #InternetParaTodos de borrarse de #facebook, #indieWeb y #Mozilla Para #streaming, por aquí > http://play.cadenaser.com/emisora/radio_castilla/ (twitter.com/_/status/981123494346985473)
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@mylesb I’m going to be talking about #IndieWeb next Tuesday (10 April) at @GTALUG https://gtalug.org/meeting/2018-04/ (twitter.com/_/status/981152794655711232)
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petermolnar Indyweb?
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skippy the Indianapolis specific flavor of Indieweb.
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aaronpk add to /events!
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Zegnat Ping MylesBraithwaite (who seems to be with us here in the channel!)
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[jgmac1106] I know many of you know or have talke to Doug Belshaw but indieweb folks maybe interested in following where projectmoodlenet lands Interested in #ProjectMoodleNet from Moodle? Come along to the first monthly community call, led by yours truly tomorrow at 15:00 UTC: https://lnkd.in/dC5grBv
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[jgmac1106] I think it will be the first decentralized social network for educators
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Zegnat Isn’t Known aimed at education and a decentralised social network in itself?
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Zegnat Will be interesting to see what can be done with Moodle! One of the first PHP-based systems I ever worked with.
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[jgmac1106] Yes but I think they maybe moving away from PHP for the ProjectMoodleNet (nameholde only) but may not since that is the skill set of their dev base
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aaronpk [jgmac1106]: do you know if any of the indieweb technologies are on their radar? it would be great if they didn't reinvent everything from scratch for this
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[jgmac1106] This will be a little bit more ambitious than Known, for example if you have published OERs (mainly Moodle courses at first) that live on other repositories the goal is to display this info on your profile and have a network connecting users from their platform. Only testing tools compliant with the ActivityPub protocol. Played with Mastodon and Hubzilla and micro.blog Here is an overview Doug published:
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[jgmac1106] https://blog.moodle.net/2018/project-moodlenet-overview-v0-4/
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[jgmac1106] [aaronpk] mainly trying to build off of indieweb tools or platforms with indieweb flare. Doug's involved so credentialing will be involved. I don't see much cross over between indieweb and the verified credentials/open badges communities but credentialing is an indieweb tool not really on the indieweb radar. Lot of great debate and tension in the W3c working croups around verified credentials and us orphans from Mozilla handing off stewardship o
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[jgmac1106] specification to IMS global
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Zegnat What is credentialing?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "credentialing" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "credentialing is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jgmac1106] credentialing is the issuance of a verified claim by an issuer about a subject. These claims can be achievements, such as a university degree or open badges, or information about the subject such as name or address. The Open Badges Specification is a vocabulary and set of protocols that describes credentials
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Loqi ok
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Zegnat Aah, interesting!
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[jgmac1106] your next question should ask about any potential sources
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[jgmac1106] https://www.w3.org/2017/05/vc-use-cases/CGFR/2017-05-01/ and https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-spring2018/blob/master/draft-documents/open-badges-are-verifiable-credentials.md
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Loqi [Shane McCarron] Verifiable Claims Use Cases 1.0
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[kevinmarks] This is interesting https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2018/4/2/the-death-of-the-newsfeed
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aaronpk that sounds like exactly the reason I divide my feed into multiple channels, because a single feed is a ridiculous concept
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat in many ways I have always thought of the indieweb model as the ultimate credential. I don't have a portfolio I have a url and a presence across the web. I can control my URL. I am learning to control my presence. The tools are getting closer as well.
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[jgmac1106] and by that definition an hCard is a verified claim. Just thinking It would be really useful in OER materials as way to track who remixes your work, or to follow the trail of work you have remixed. Academics, especially those who publish more openly or argue developing OER is research, need a way to track material across so many different repositories. We need to develop an analytics dashboard. Just having a central author format would be a hug
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[jgmac1106] wonder if anyone is doing that. Way smarter people on the Commons OER team than me.
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schmarty what is OER?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "OER" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "OER is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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schmarty [jgmac1106]: ^^
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Zegnat Following a trail just requires everyone to always have the whole list of previous authors linked in their publication. Then you can send webmentions to those h-card URLs :) (My h-card accepts webmentions, at least.)
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sl007 https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/30/google-shutting-down-goo-gl-url-shortening-service/
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sl007 What is Firebase Dynamic Link?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Firebase Dynamic Link" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Firebase Dynamic Link is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sl007 What is FDL?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "FDL" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "FDL is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is googl
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "googl" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "googl is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is goo.gl
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Loqi goo.gl is Google's URL shortener that is shutting down 2018-04-13, though all existing short URLs will continue to redirect https://developers.googleblog.com/2018/03/transitioning-google-url-shortener.html https://indieweb.org/goo.gl
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tantek googl is /goo.gl
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Loqi ok
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tantek sl007: ^^^ feel free to add any new information about the shutdown there
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sl007 unfortunately I never heard about "FDL" - and I am astonished that google now even reinvents shortlinks
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[jgmac1106] [schmarty] why do I keep getting all the contested questions?
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[jgmac1106] OER is an acronym for open educational resources which are educational resources, including courses, lessons, and other materials used for learning purposes. These materials can be freely copied, distributed, remixed and reused for educational and commercial purposes depending on the licensing assigned by the creator. Open Educational Resources usually have a GNU or Creative Commons license.
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[jgmac1106] I would have written OER is an acronym for openly licensed learning materials such as courses, lessons, and other media used for learning purposes. These materials can be freely copied, distributed, remixed and reused for educational and commercial purposes depending on the licensing assigned by the creator. Open Educational Resources usually have a GNU or Creative Commons license. Can't use a word wwhen defining that word
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[jgmac1106] and I still used the same word twice in one sentence. that is annoying too
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[jgmac1106] no I didn't never mind. No editing of posts is that for D&I, archiving purposes, or both?
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tantek I feel like I am only seeing half a conversation between [jgmac1106] and someone else?
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aaronpk editing is disabled in slack because there isn't a good way to match that up with IRC and our web logs and other bridged interfaces that may be connecting via irc
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aaronpk and nope I don't see any other chatter in slack
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Zegnat [jgmac1106], does this look like what you were writing on Slack? Wondering if something got lost in transit: https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-04-03#t1522767659099800
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Loqi [[jgmac1106]] [schmarty] why do I keep getting all the contested questions?
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schmarty [jgmac1106]: apologies for any implied contention. I wanted to see if Loqi knew about OER for future reference. Thank you for the definition!
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/mims/status/981156672428265473
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@mims "Thousands of years of human history notwithstanding, Mark Zuckerberg believes that the more we interact with each other, the better we will be to each other." https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/facebook-alarm-bells-have-been-ringing-years via @nitashatiku @jbouie https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ3Ex-YXkAE5O1j.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/981156672428265473)
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tantek citation of specifics to back up that "thousands of years of human history"? The numbers I have seen are more like: https://twitter.com/jtk/status/981207976848470021
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@jtk @mims @kevinmarks @nitashatiku @jbouie The world is becoming less violent. (twitter.com/_/status/981207976848470021)
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tantek lots of strawmanning in that embeded text-image kevinmarks, sorry, cannot take it seriously
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tantek and what does that have to do with indieweb? indieweb helps people interact with each other more directly, without a proxy / gatekeeper like FB. how does any of that apply to what we do here specifically? what's the useful thinking / design take-away?
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KartikPrabhu I haven't read Aristotle or Nat. Geo.
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tantek I have. And both are highly recommended.
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KartikPrabhu strange criterion for "educated"
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tantek they are just token mentions
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tantek for common humanities studies
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KartikPrabhu in the context of that text-image it only comes off as condescending
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tantek anyway - it's pointless attempting any kind of deep/meaningful argument on Twitter
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tantek KartikPrabhu: agreed
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tantek hence my point about the strawmanning in that same text image
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KartikPrabhu right
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[kevinmarks] the fuller transcript is better https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/facebook-alarm-bells-have-been-ringing-years
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tantek this seems more worth the time to read, if "zuck" is your reading criteria, also privacy, privilege etc.: https://theoutline.com/post/3994/it-is-weirdly-hard-to-steal-mark-zuckerbergs-trash (via aaronpk)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "🔖 Génération IndieWeb 4 et domaines hébergés | xtof" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-04-03 http://boffosocko.com/2018/04/03/generation-indieweb-4-et-domaines-heberges-xtof/
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Loqi [indienews/fr] New post: "🔖 Génération IndieWeb 4 et domaines hébergés | xtof" https://xtof.micro.blog/2018/03/26/gnration-indieweb-et.html (from http://boffosocko.com/2018/04/03/generation-indieweb-4-et-domaines-heberges-xtof/)
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@ChrisAldrich 🔖 Génération IndieWeb 4 et domaines hébergés via @xtof_party http://boffosocko.com/2018/04/03/generation-indieweb-4-et-domaines-heberges-xtof/ (twitter.com/_/status/981224611009347584)
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@rMdes_ Funkwhale - A modern, convivial and free music server + activitypub cc #indieweb: https://funkwhale.audio/ (twitter.com/_/status/981230657782378497)
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[jgmac1106] no, it was inside baseball. Lot of ink spilled arguing about what is a credential and what is OER
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tantek [jgmac1106]: that sounds like a good reason to remove both from the indieweb wiki
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tantek not sure how either is relevant here
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Event" on 2018-04-03 http://tantek.com/2018/094/e1/homebrew-website-club-sf
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@t Event: Homebrew Website Club SF — Special 404 Edition! At: 2018-04-04 17:30 @MozSF RSVP: http://tantek.com/e/4tk1 (twitter.com/_/status/981259938700898305)
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@trwnh ↩️ sure, there's still privacy! it just won't be on for-profit sites or the corporate web. that's why i point people to http://indieweb.org and http://joinmastodon.org for alternatives to being turned into a commodity by ad companies. (twitter.com/_/status/981279166564847618)
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davy__ Huh. Mastodon looks nice. Anyone know how indieweb-friendly it is?
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gRegorLove What is Mastodon?
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Loqi Mastodon is an open source implementation of a federated social network with several running instances that is compatible with GNU social https://indieweb.org/Mastodon
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gRegorLove It has some indieweb support: https://indieweb.org/Mastodon#IndieWeb_Support
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snarfed davy__: also https://fed.brid.gy/
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davy__ That's not too bad. I like the look of mastedon I hope it gains traction. I definitely like the look of bridgy.
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tantek davy__: if you run your own site, you get to determine the look
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tantek whereas if you use someone else's server (whether a silo or someone else's Mastodon instance), they determine the look
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tantek hence indieweb tends to encourage using your own, even if the software is hosted somewhere
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davy__ Oh, I'm certainly not considering mastadon for myself
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tantek my guess is someone has built Mastodon like Wordpress theme(s) for example
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tantek and if not - definitely an opportunity there
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davy__ I've been working hard on my site. Past couple of nights I've had weird dreams about microformats and page-parsing. The tetris effect, I think it's called.
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[kevinmarks] Mastodon is mostly a reader ui, so you have to map to wp's reader. Not sure how stylable that is
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@tomwiththeweath .@dustyweb describes bridging between #indieweb and mastodon with http://fed.brid.gy #iiw https://t.co/rSY31xrtoX (twitter.com/_/status/981290095004172288)
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snarfed o_O
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@sdepolo ↩️ It is a good point. I am glad I don' have kids to try to keep off of Facebook. Instead of a ban, I'd teach them...post first on their own site, using #indieweb to connect to others, then 'indulge in FB Twitter" to find more people to engage on their own site. (twitter.com/_/status/981292076443709440)
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[aaronpk] Oh nice he went to IIW! I'm probly going to go to the next one!
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@mikestapp Indieweb’s weakest spots are exactly where the big silos add most value: effortless social connection, simple UX, and hiding the complex infrastructure. (twitter.com/_/status/981302805385314304)
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KartikPrabhu also the converse ?
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@sdepolo ↩️ Agreed. We went from blogrolls, forums and ad-hoc groups we owned to rented centralized spaces where we pay to play...with $ if we are in biz, or with our personas-as-a-product, if not. #deleteFacebook is not pragmatic but #indieweb can get us outta here. (twitter.com/_/status/981303195426107392)
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[aaronpk] Hey people are mentioning indieweb as a possible alternative at all now. That's progress compared to several years ago when we were just the weirdos with our own websites 😛
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[cleverdevil] News flash: we are still weirdos. 😉
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skippy https://dock.io/ this hits all the buzzwords!
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jalcine running an entire mastodon instance is a bit overkill tho
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jalcine IIRC mastodon isn't _terribly_ easy to theme either; not the most extensible piece of software
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jalcine but they've been very friendly to allowing people to contribute
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KartikPrabhu FB and twitter is not terribly easy to theme either so <shrug>
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aaronpk wow that dock.io page
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[cleverdevil] Yeesh, its rough.
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aaronpk 2 years until remember dock.io? see if it's still around and borrow their website for indieweb marketing if not http://web.archive.org/web/20180403234534/https://dock.io/
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2020-04-02 4:48pm PDT (#6277)
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[cleverdevil] LOLs
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jalcine HA
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jalcine dock.io looks interesting tho
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jalcine but like this _could_ be done using more federated specs
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skippy Mozilla Personas was a similar effort, back in the day. Sans blockchain.
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jalcine hmmm
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jalcine I do remember this but not the breadth it took