#indieweb 2018-04-04
2018-04-04 UTC
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] there are some social feed themes for WP, none great, but the ones I have found all use some form of Buddypress. Not sure why but I have always hated the process of having to configure Buddypress, especially when you end up with 100+ users, I end up needing 4 dozen plug most of which aren't compatible with each other.
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gRegorLove IWS 2018 t-shirts? https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-04-03/1522797040663300
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Loqi [[cleverdevil]] News flash: we are still weirdos. 😉
# gRegorLove What was Persona?
# Loqi Persona was an email-based authentication service from Mozilla that was supported by IndieAuth for rel-me links to email addresses; it was shut down November 30, 2016 https://indieweb.org/Persona
# gRegorLove That Persona or something different?
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "wakest shared a status by rmdes@mastodon.indie.host" on 2018-04-04 https://mastodon.social/@wakest/99799381187432385
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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# jeremycherfas Hello tantek. Just about to leave for my morning walk. Back in an hour or so.
# jeremycherfas Sogni d'oro. I mostly listen to podcasts on my walks, so there may indeed be insights and entertainment.
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@borismus An independently hosted personal website is the most durable part of your online persona. (twitter.com/_/status/981410887822200832)
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "Good to find another fellow in this quest of providing a secure and better way to keep in touch…" by Dario Castañé on 2018-04-04 https://medium.com/@im_dario/good-to-find-another-fellow-in-this-quest-of-providing-a-secure-and-better-way-to-keep-in-touch-bc02fce05a57?source=rss-------1
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[kevinmarks] !tell aaronpk is there a timeout on !rt ? How long is it?
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@johnchavens Tell Facebook: Our Data is our Property #OwnYourData https://www.change.org/p/tell-facebook-our-data-is-our-property-ownyourdata?recruiter=253159141&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition via @Change (twitter.com/_/status/981168730309738496)
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# [kevinmarks] You could use xfn for that rel="friend" etc
# [kevinmarks] What is xfn?
# Loqi XFN (XHTML Friends Network) is the network of visible links across blogs that claim various XFN relationships with/to each other https://indieweb.org/XFN
# [kevinmarks] What is vouch?
# Loqi The Vouch protocol is an anti-spam extension to Webmention. Webmention with Vouch depends on understanding Webmention https://indieweb.org/Vouch
# [kevinmarks] What you're describing sounds a lot like the vouch idea
# [kevinmarks] Well, a step before the vouch idea in that it is a direct link, not an indirect one
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[joewillmott] wowzers this place is bigger than anticipated!
# [joewillmott] ... and deader? 😞
# jeremych_ You didn't check for a pulse.
# [joewillmott] but there it is anyway!
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petermolnar [joewillmott]: there is a lag in communication on irc channels like this; many of us stay connected all the time, but only read it a few times during the day. Also keep in mind: time zones ;)
# jeremycherfas The time stamp on those two posts is identical, for me. So, y'know ...
# [joewillmott] It showed nobody online so I thought this place was dead... now there's 15 or so of you =D
# [kevinmarks] there's a bridge from web and slack, so we show up in irc only when we post
# [kevinmarks] and vice versa
# [joewillmott] ah okay, didnt realise people were in irc
# [joewillmott] i dont even know what this place is tbh... an old coursemate told me to "POSSE UP" so i read a bit about posse, then clicked around and ended up here 🙃
# jeremycherfas Well, you're welcome anyway.
# [kevinmarks] strk: the point of the commenter having to provide the vouch url is to put a bit more burden on them than the host, as they're the one hoping to get a comment displayed
# [kevinmarks] do you have your own web site, joe?
# [joewillmott] a big old collection of outdated websites, like everyone1
# petermolnar whoa, mine is certainly not outdated, neither is most of the websites from the people in here
# [joewillmott] so what goes down in here?
# petermolnar this is the main channel of https://indieweb.org/
# [joewillmott] really?? how do people keep their websites updated!? client work occupies about 110% of my time 😞
# [joewillmott] having a nice, up-to-date website with fresh content, that's built with care & consideration... that's the dream 😍
# jeremycherfas Then you've come to the right place, when you are ready.
# petermolnar one of the main problems that has been addressed lately was to make it simpler to post to your own site; I'd recommend looking into https://indieweb.org/Micropub
# [kevinmarks] and how to wire it back and forth to the silos
# [joewillmott] heh, the schedule is disgustingly crammed atm with people wanting projects ready for winter, but im sure once spring is in full-swing there will be a bit of breathing room where i can drag my website out of 1997
# [joewillmott] oh golly okay
# petermolnar is your website powered by any CMS or it's completely custom made?
# [kevinmarks] for winter? are you southern hemisphere?
# [joewillmott] 100% wordpress and pre-made things. i havent had time to dev for yeeeears
# petermolnar in that case, join the #indieweb-wordpress channel as well, and start here: https://indieweb.org/WordPress and here: https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
# [joewillmott] being a dev at a few agencies meant getting increasingly frustrated at decisions made by the UX teams, but being a dev meant i couldn't get heard... so i dropped the dev life for UX and life is sweeeeet
# [kevinmarks] we need more UX thinking here.
# jeremycherfas Kevinmarks++ for ^
# [joewillmott] that's what i gathered, Skippy. that's the kind of future i wouldn't know where to help or breakthrough, but the idea behind it will create a future i very much want to embrace
# jeremycherfas If you are into UX and WordPress, that's an area right there.
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# [joewillmott] Right well I'm at work and I cannot possibly keep reading the indieweb website without somebody saying "you dont look like youre working!" so i shall revert to lurk mode
# jeremycherfas Bye for now.
# petermolnar politely asks strk to read https://petermolnar.net/internet-emotional-core/ because it resonates with the question
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@kevinmarks ↩️ the pattern we have in http://chat.indieweb.org is a good one - there's a bot that looks for "what is ___?" and if there's a wiki page for that, it shows the summary and link. If there isn't a wiki page it asks the channel for a summary and remembers it. (twitter.com/_/status/981516257852907521)
# petermolnar I didn't get much reaction to that entry and I'm curious what others think
# petermolnar that's what the "social" in networks used meant to be (does this phrase make sense?)
# petermolnar before it meant instant fame
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@emilybell Here is a killer quote for all you growth managers from @ndiakopoulos ‘trending is over’ and he is right . https://www.cjr.org/tow_center/bots-manipulate-trends.php https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ3HygxW0AUSEmm.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/981159968404574208)
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@calum_ryan Folks it's London's Homebrew Website Club tonight from 7pm Proven Dough cafe @ The Hub hotel Brick Lane #indieweb 👉 @hwclondon (https://calumryan.com/note/1464) (twitter.com/_/status/981537128982171648)
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@JohnONolan After 4 years of running a (11,000 member) public Slack community for @TryGhost — today we’ve decided to shut the whole thing down for good. I’ve got a few interesting observations to share from the experience, and what we’re moving to now instead. And so beginneth the thread: (twitter.com/_/status/980872508395188224)
# klandwehr Hello
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# [kevinmarks] hi klandwehr
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ until your kids wants to share a video or stream from their video game system in a live broadcast.
Until we get there #indieweb will still be a niche of nerds. Just glad we keep getting more nerds (twitter.com/_/status/981559181986729991)
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# [joewillmott] There's no such thing as nerds anymore
# [joewillmott] Nerds got left in the nineties
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[tantek] New indieweb coders are being grown and taught every day: https://twitter.com/ethanwhite/status/980943539721863169
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@ethanwhite 8 yo: We're learning to make websites at school. Me: Awesome, are you using Google Sites or something. 8 yo opens a text editor and types in 6 valid lines of html. Me: ... 8 yo: Dad, why are you crying? (twitter.com/_/status/980943539721863169)
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# [jgmac1106] [joewillmott] not sure I agree. What I think happened was nerd as an insult was left in the nineties when all the nerds became the bosses in 00s. Now worn more with badge of honor rather than insult. I didn't go into CompSci because I feared the social backlash after getting made fun of doing a demo of a basic program I wrote in 6th grade (and I hated PASCAL and that is all middle school taught after an annoying how to use Office class)
# [jgmac1106] [joewillmott] just thinking what would it take to get folks who are so dependent on easy an UX to share massive media files through networks that do codec wizardry.
# [joewillmott] Nah jgmac I think nerds don't exist, not because it became "cool" - but because young people are the people that see others as nerds. When you're older you don't think "what a nerd!" you think "what a clever bugger" - but young people, kids even, are learning the kind of stuff that would've made an adult a "nerd" in their eyes back in the old days...
# [joewillmott] I know what I'm trying to say 😞
# [jgmac1106] best part about @ethanwhite story is you would never even have to worry about COPPA as its done locally
# [joewillmott] Also it would take hiding the tough stuff from them
# [joewillmott] Any decisions they have to make, make it for them, handle things behind the scenes... idk
# [joewillmott] it sounds way more complicated than anything I know things about 😛
# [jgmac1106] ...off to class...where ten weeks in I still can only get 60% to correctly share a link to a wordpress blogpost. Most just copy the link to their WP editor
# [joewillmott] nooooo
# [joewillmott] SURELY not 😮
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# [jgmac1106] @joewillmot I have done ton of videos , gif casts, and written tutorials just to teach whah it a url and how do I share one. Something about the new WP editor makes it hard for them to find the link when they hit publish. I also blame Apple for deprecating the URL in Safari..Many of my students hurt by the power of default
# [jgmac1106] COPPA compliance is really hard and most companies will just stay away from anyone under 13 years old....Waiting to see the 16+ impact of GDPR on edtech Always a problem when we were building learning tools at Mozilla since email is sign on du jour
# [jgmac1106] [tantek], that is usually the first lesson: Never use Safari
# [jgmac1106] I am so excited for Firefox Reality, been telling anyone who would listen (and those who don't want to) that lowcost WebVR will be the better play since I tried it on Nightly a few years back. Even I can use A-Frame to make stuff.
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# [jgmac1106] ...funny we are trying to get people to drag their websites back to 1997
# [joewillmott] made the switch back to safari 5 years ago and loving it 😎
# [jgmac1106] Every single incoming class at our UNI gets a a private facebook group. They then share there snaps and instagram accounts to connect away from the sanctioned group, but that FB is showing to be a huge part of retention funnel
# [jgmac1106] I like the devtools in Safari but too much just doesn't work, like every plus once latest FF dropped it was no question. All the speed and all the privacy. I am in
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kaushalmodi A conversation about webmentions that I am having on Mastodon: https://social.heldscal.la/notice/6832236, if someone else wants to chime in.
# kaushalmodi (remove that comma after the link, I believe that comma shouldn't be auto-included as part of that hyperlink)
# [jgmac1106] [tantek] was thinking we should get an #indieweb project going for upcoming Mozilla Global Sprints. Maybe an online homebrewclub for people new but try to find a "good first bug" project to attract devs to indieweb spirit
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chrisaldrich strk: The @ethanwhite comment above was an unfurled link from twitter courtesy of Loqi based on tantek's link in the line just above it. EthanWhite isn't someone actually here in the chat.
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "Following Christoph Ducamp" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-04-04 http://boffosocko.com/2018/04/04/christoph-ducamp/
# chrisaldrich Is there a central list of indieweb users who are primarily non-English speaking?
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# chrisaldrich /IRC_people has some implied data via location, but it could stand to be more explicit.
# Loqi translations are alternative versions of posts that have been translated (rewritten with the intent of maintaining meaning) into another language https://indieweb.org/translations
# chrisaldrich Interesting, I actually frame non-English speaking as a postive thing. :) But it's probably better to frame it neutrally in either case.
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KartikPrabhu jalcine++
# KartikPrabhu also speaking/wirting in other languanges is not the same as "non-English speaking"
# chrisaldrich I've got some passable Spanish, French, and even Latin, but I'm better at writing/reading and not so good at conversation. Over the past year I'm doing more in Japanese using immersive methods....
# chrisaldrich Primarily I'm interested in pointing people to better resources for indieweb when their native languages are French, Spanish, Japanese, etc.
# KartikPrabhu jalcine: yes, my "native" languages are also phonetically written :)
# chrisaldrich I know there are translations of several pages, but we don't have nearly enough.
# chrisaldrich I've seen those, yes, but just wishing there were more.
# chrisaldrich And also wishing my abilities were up for improving that front, but alas....
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# chrisaldrich I also half expected language to be part of h-card data....
# chrisaldrich goes to see what Zegnat's done....
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# [kevinmarks] hi Calum
# [kevinmarks] sorry I didn't make it this week
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "Site Deaths" by Calum Ryan on 2018-04-04 https://medium.com/@calumryan/site-deaths-ef9c0fb46e29?source=rss-------1
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@gtalug The next #GTALUG meeting is on Tuesday, April 10 at 7:30pm. We have presentation on IndieWeb, GitAnnex and Unison. https://gtalug.org/meeting/2018-04/ at George Vari Engineering and Computing Centre -- 245 Church Street, Room 203. (twitter.com/_/status/981623669423296512)
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# [sdepolo] [aaronpk] would you be interested in writing something about your new indieweb reader for the GoDaddy blog? We have a post due on Monday 4/9, any chance you’d be able to write something by then? I enjoyed your post on building it: https://aaronparecki.com/2018/03/12/17/building-an-indieweb-reader and the post for our audience would need to be an intro to what an indieweb reader is and why people would care with a link to your post for the detail
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# [joewillmott] The agency I work at requires all employees to write blog posts for the company website, which is fine. I've got blog post ideas flowing out of my head all day long. I write down the ideas, but I want them to be MINE. As such, I only write the worst ones up on the company blog, saving the good ones for if the day ever comes when I write up my own stuff. The problem is, because I write the rubbish ones, my peers/boss are starting to think I don
# [joewillmott] Don't get me wrong here; I *know* this isn't the actual reason behind indieweb, but it's semi-sort-of-related and something that's been bugging me the last few months...:
# [joewillmott] understand... things - that I don't see the bigger picture of why we do what we do.
# [joewillmott] I'd be fine to write up some of the better posts, if I still OWNED them... like I could re-publish them on my own blog in the future (when I eventually move on from this job). Does anyone know if that'd be legally classed as theft, or is it okay? I fully understand it's a bit of a dick move, but being a dick is just part of getting shit done. It's the legal aspect that worries me.
# Loqi Indieweb for Journalism is the application of Indieweb principles to one's personal site with a particular emphasis on use cases for journalists, photographers, editors, related bloggers and platforms which are publishing their work https://indieweb.org/Indieweb_for_Journalism
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# [chrisaldrich] If you're writing on company time then it's generally considered work product.
# [chrisaldrich] You could ask to be able to republish them on your site after the fact.
# [chrisaldrich] I think most companies would allow that, particularly with a link back
# [chrisaldrich] You could say you want it as part of your portfolio
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# tantek you may also consider negotiating for 1) publishing on your own site either immediately after (PESOS), or perhaps after some embargo period (3-6 mo?) after each post published date, and 2) have copyright in the content fully revert to you if they choose to unpublish your posts (permalinks) for any reason or in anyway (say like site-death.
# [chrisaldrich] You might also ask them to publish your material (and others in the company) with a particular license which could then give you and others the ability to do these things.
# [chrisaldrich] If they're doing it to promote the company's work they should probably have a reasonable license anyway.
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "exclusivity" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "exclusivity is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# tantek and this week in silos gonna silo - whoa this article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/28/all-the-data-facebook-google-has-on-you-privacy -- did someone already post this here?
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# snarfed i've syndicated a few work blog posts on my site. eg https://snarfed.org/2016-08-31_channeling-the-hacker-way
# [joewillmott] I'm pretty sure they wouldn't care if I did it now... but one day I intend to be competition++ so I should probably get it written somewhere in my contract that they only get exclusivity for X time or something
# [joewillmott] hmmmm thanks for bringing up a few interesting points, guys. given me plenty of things to explore and consider
# [chrisaldrich] What are publishing rights?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "publishing rights" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "publishing rights is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [chrisaldrich] I often negotiate for authors and writers, so I'll try to flesh something out when I'm back in the office.
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# [sdepolo] [aaronpk] thanks, the word count between 1000-1500 is perfect. info about our style here: https://www.godaddy.com/garage/contribute/
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# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "exclusivity" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "exclusivity is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# [kevinmarks] Even if you do work for hire, keeping clips is usually OK, and expected.
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "work for hire" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "work for hire is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] Good afternoon, IndieWeb!
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# Loqi Thanks aaronpk and tantek! https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/981655585815867392
# tantek hmm this looks worth capturing somewhere future-discoverable: https://twitter.com/emilybell/status/981159968404574208
# @emilybell Here is a killer quote for all you growth managers from @ndiakopoulos ‘trending is over’ and he is right . https://www.cjr.org/tow_center/bots-manipulate-trends.php https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ3HygxW0AUSEmm.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/981159968404574208)
# Loqi Trends is a feature on social media silos that shows the some of the most popular hashtags (AKA Trending hashtags), links, news articles, words, or phrases that are being used or cited in posts, and have been criticized on Facebook & Twitter for being manipulated by bots and/or showing conspiracy theories at the top https://indieweb.org/trending
# KartikPrabhu essay
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "essay" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "essay is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi HTML (HyperText Markup Language) is the language used to create web pages, thus one of the building blocks of the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/HTML
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# [sdepolo] yes [aaronpk] you are welcome to post the content on your own site too. We ask that you wait a few days first and mention that it appeared first on the GoDaddy Garage blog and include a connonical tag
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "embargo" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "embargo is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indieweb for business" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "indieweb for business is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# [sdepolo] [tantek] do you mean examples of indieweb for business posts?
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# [kevinmarks] Example business I am randomly helping
# [kevinmarks] I could just make them a website too
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# [jgmac1106] [tantek] I am running a series of classes with our Chamber of Commerce to try to get local businesses off of facebook and onto their own websites where they syndicate links....trying to the same with my sons Cub Scout troop. Having better luck with the small businesses.
# [jgmac1106] I get a few side gigs out of it. In terms of charging (I know its low) but moving to monthly fees versus a flat fee for a website. I get MRR but the real goal is to get everyone to do it themselves
# [jgmac1106] A couple people launched a weekly for profit paper since we haven't had one in decades. Going to try and see if I can get them to spin up a forum or something. facebook is the only way to get any local updates...Not having as much luck on this...and of course I will blog about it....Funny thing is facebook was a major for funnel for identifying folks who want to be off facebook. I deactivated again
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# [jgmac1106] a lot of bartering, a few kind trades, build me a closet I will build you a website and teach you how to run it
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# [jgmac1106] Websites for creatives easier to introduce indieweb, share what you make or build everywhere, when working retail just learning how to do inventory, tax, etc so much work. Guess the question would be what would an indieweb backend for retail look like? Would there even be a point? I also have a FT job, and run a company with four employees so client work time hard to squeeze in. Helps I can think about as giving back to town
# [jgmac1106] but I am a hypocrite my own business isn't as open (our blogs are all indieweb powered) as I want but that's more about not being the controlling partner.