#indieweb 2018-04-05
2018-04-05 UTC
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chrisaldrich I think when it comes to marketing for businesses, they can spend a lot of time, effort, and energy trying to reach multiple audiences on multiple platforms.
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tantek snarfed, my assertion is that given the shift/focus/obsession with "social media presence" for "brands" who also have their own website but no integration (maybe a JS widget at best), there's a huge opportunity for integrating indieweb solutions/approaches to using their own website more instead of depending on social media
# chrisaldrich If nothing else, the concept of POSSE is certainly a useful one for business use cases to know about.
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# chrisaldrich I personally wouldn't mind if there were more indieweb ideas behind /analytics and /advertising
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[cleverdevil] Alright, time to walk from my hotel to Mozilla.
# [cleverdevil] Hip hip hooray HWC!
# chrisaldrich There are far too many businesses spending a lot of time and money on custom content for silos when they could be adding that value directly to their own websites.
# chrisaldrich I would also posit that businesses (especially large ones) are paying developers serious money to dovetail into social silos when that money would be better spent on building direct infrastructure for themselves.
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pjz the problem is that unenlightened businesses will then claim their personal direct infrastructure is 'secret sauce' and not share it, so instead there end up being N silos, all broken in unique ways.
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[jgmac1106] I think somebody who makes a quick http to https tool (i use two different plug-ins when updating client wordpress sites) could crush it. Customers freak when they see the http warning symbol now, even on static websites where there isn't a single form to fill
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KartikPrabhu pjz: you mean they would be closed-source?
# [jgmac1106] in terms of ecommerce the PoS (Clover...not sure abotu SWIPE) page builders are getting so good I often just tell folks to do that until they have time.
# KartikPrabhu indieweb does not have to be open source
# KartikPrabhu they are orthogonal
# [jgmac1106] pjz I try to only have 2-3 clients a month and ween them off my support hopefully within a similar time frame. Usually take 4-6 luckily clients are hard to find
# [jgmac1106] you can tell Karthik been studying his algebra and physics
# [jgmac1106] I love the word orthogonal
# KartikPrabhu yes :P
# KartikPrabhu I was going to use "mutually exclusive"
# [jgmac1106] but I am more addicted to Factor Analysis than physics applications
# KartikPrabhu ok then they are "uncorrelated" ;)
# [jgmac1106] @KartikPrabhu++
# chrisaldrich open protocols like webmention are potentially so valuable to businesses that they'll certainly want to use them for the potential interaction.
# chrisaldrich it's hard to be able to silo those kinds of things...
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# chrisaldrich in particular, I image that the increased use of things like reviews (with h-review) and webmention could be a boon to those selling products online. Suddenly amazon's "Verified Purchase" could be done with acquisition posts and reviews....
# [jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] spent more time with altmetric today. Had no idea you built something like it. That is the dashboard anyone in #OpenEd and #OpenScience would want
# [jgmac1106] I spend a lot of time working with schools on rethinking P&T I just draw what you already made on whiteboard as the future
# chrisaldrich I haven't built anything directly, but have sketched out an indieweb set up that would allow it based on /academic_samizdat + webmentions as well as potentially syndicating to pre-print servers and/or traditional online journals or other repositories.
# [jgmac1106] you know all the digped folks, that is all WP driven, maybe you could dogfood it on hybrid pedagogy if it gets to that point
# chrisaldrich for promotion and tenure, it's always nice that webmentions are bi-directional so there's the ability to do an audit of the references. They can improve both the communication side as well as the direct reference side at the same time.
# chrisaldrich The basic set up also goes a long way toward removing some of the incumbent power of the major publishing concerns within the journal world.
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# KartikPrabhu lol
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aaronpk For the logs https://aaronparecki.com/2018/04/04/13/grid
# [jgmac1106] Still the idea of research on your own site first, not sure I am ready for that pre-publication... Yeah walk that fine line all the time
# [jgmac1106] Now when I am logged into library there is link in Google scholar to the silo where the pub lives. It is so beautifully siloed. Have to read up on if Google Scholar has a knowledge graph or how to get one of those cool instant links
# [jgmac1106] Didn't they also just announce all 2 billion profiles scraped
# [jgmac1106] I honestly believe the government already has it all
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# [cleverdevil] Yeeeeeesh.
# [cleverdevil] That's... crazy.
# [jgmac1106] It's the public profile but it will still freak folks out
# [cleverdevil] Kicking off with intros at HWC SF.
# [cleverdevil] Tantek is going first!
# [jgmac1106] Signing off enjoy
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# [cleverdevil] We're commemorating site deaths that matter to us, in honor of 404 day.
# [cleverdevil] Tantek is sad that Lanyrd.com is turbo-dead.
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# [cleverdevil] Next up is [snarfed]
# [cleverdevil] He is missing Google Schemer, which was a useful site to discover fun things to do locally.
# tantek showed http://lanyrd.com/profile/t/
# [cleverdevil] Next up, Johannes Ernst!
# [cleverdevil] He misses the website for a standards body (CDIF.org) back in the 1990's, and somewhere along the way the site went away.
# [cleverdevil] It came back (with the same content) years later, but is now gone again.
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "zombie site" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "zombie site is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi zombie is in the context of the web a website that had died (site-deaths), perhaps due to domain registration neglect, and has been brought back by some other looking sorta like it did before, but oddly broken, often with spam pages/links added, and eats a lot of CPU likely due to abusive scripts https://indieweb.org/zombie
# [cleverdevil] Next is Dan.
# [cleverdevil] His 404 is login.persona.org
# Loqi Persona was an email-based authentication service from Mozilla that was supported by IndieAuth for rel-me links to email addresses; it was shut down November 30, 2016 https://indieweb.org/Persona
# [cleverdevil] Next up is Michael Toomin
# [cleverdevil] Oh, but first, Dan is sandmill.org
# [cleverdevil] Michael is working on adding synchronization to HTTP
# [cleverdevil] His 404 is for a site called 1000 Memories, where he catalogued memories of his grandfather, and then six months later they shut down.
# [cleverdevil] Next up is Fatima, who doesn't have a website yet, but is excited to be here.
# [cleverdevil] LuckyPeach.com is her 404!
# [cleverdevil] Now, Ryan, iambismark.net
# [cleverdevil] His 404 is the tr.im URL shortener.
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tr.im" yet. Would you like to create it?_ (Or just say "tr.im is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trim" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "trim is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [cleverdevil] Ben is up next, he is esham.io
# tantek re: tr.im: http://microformats.org/wiki/tr.im
# [cleverdevil] His 404 was Google Wave.
# tantek wave.google.com which redirects to https://support.google.com/answer/1083134
# Loqi Google is primarily used for searching the open web (where indieweb sites typically rank highly), but also produces end user software, and hosts a number of content silos and other services https://indieweb.org/Google_Wave
# [cleverdevil] Now: me!
# [cleverdevil] Some good discussion about how good Pinboard is.
# [cleverdevil] Demo time!
# [cleverdevil] Tantek is gonna show his auto-archiving feature for his website.
# Loqi The Internet Archive is a non-profit organization that is building a digital library, including archival copy of much of the public web https://indieweb.org/Internet_Archive
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# Loqi [superfeedr] "#Indieweb and Business" by Greg McVerry on 2018-04-05 http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/indieweb-and-business
# [cleverdevil] Now discussing hilarious 404 pages
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# [cleverdevil] My contribution is http://dreamhost.com/404
# [cleverdevil] penny-arcade.com/404
# [cleverdevil] yahoo.com/404 "404 engagement not found"
# [cleverdevil] adactio.com/404
# [cleverdevil] alistapart.com/404
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# chrisaldrich My own 404 page is physics related: http://boffosocko.com/404
# [cleverdevil] Great job!
# [cleverdevil] (Refresh)
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@tomasparksts ↩️ * fideonet witch/was is a pre-internet distributed social network that use store-and-forward message transfer
PS: have you heard about the indieweb[1] movement
[1]: https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/981719786865311744)
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# [ryan339] https://github.com/mgp25/Instagram-API <- another way of fetching all data from Instagram
# Loqi InstaLooter is an open source tool for exporting photos and videos from any public Instagram profile or hashtag, or private profile with login credentials https://indieweb.org/InstaLooter
# Loqi Together is a reader that was initially conceived at the 2017 IndieWeb Summit in Portland by Jonathan LaCour and several others during the Putting it all together session https://indieweb.org/Together
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# chrisaldrich kartikprabhu: I like your original-of page... that's a nice idea!
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# Loqi Microsub is an early draft of a spec that provides a standardized way for clients to consume and interact with feeds collected by a server https://indieweb.org/microsub
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Microsub bridge" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Microsub bridge is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi [superfeedr] "Because today’s date is 4/04, some in the IndieWeb are celebrating a World-wide Website Day of Remembrance to remember and recognize site-deaths that now 404. What is your favorite site that’s disappeared? What’s your favorite 404 page? What site do you think will disappear before we celebrate 404 again next April 04?    " by Chris Aldrich on 2018-04-05 http://boffosocko.com/2018/04/04/world-wide-website-day-of-remembrance/
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@ChrisAldrich Because today's date is 4/04, some in the #IndieWeb are celebrating a World-wide Website Day of Remembrance to remember and recognize site-deaths that now return a 404. What is your favorite site that's disappeared? What's your favorite 404 page?
http://boffosocko.com/2018/04/04/world-wide-website-day-of-remembrance/ (twitter.com/_/status/981728388267130880)
# tantek Microsub bridge is a [[Microsub]] server that bridges to other [[reader]] backends. https://snarfed.org/microsub-bridge
# [cleverdevil] I may reprise my demo at IWS, GWG.
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# [snarfed] re j12t's platform coop idea, also https://opencollective.com/indieweb !
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# Loqi 418 is a little teapot, short and stout https://indieweb.org/418
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[kevinmarks] My 404 is https://gmpg.org/xfn/ except its not 404 just blank
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# [kevinmarks] Also woodwind.xyz
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# anotheryou Hi. I just found your great POSSE wiki page. While I like it, I also really like the mild privacy facebook gives by allowing to only post for friends. Is there any self hosted solution that coul somehow provide something simmilar?
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petermolnar anotheryou: that is a very tricky problem; in theory, a facebook app can ask for permission like that; however: given in theory you POSSE already world-readable posts that are on your site, may I ask what's the use case for it?
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# anotheryou petermolnar: I like curating for my friends, but I don't like my various profiles to be publicly scrapable. Too easy to link them together by AI and idintify loads of personal data in a few years :)
# anotheryou further I don't like to have all too permanent records of what I write. If it's public it can be scraped or end up on archive.org and haunt me years later. On facebook my friends don't haunt me and I could delete my post and be rather sure none of my friends have archived them before.
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# petermolnar I don't think POSSE and this kind of privacy play well together
# anotheryou I agree :) too bad there is no provider independent solutien
# anotheryou solution
# anotheryou appart from maybe a password protected blog
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# anotheryou I recently wrote an experimental concept for something like twitter, but with ranking of importance and without machine learning or democracy :) anyone interested in knowing more? I'd love to discuss it a bit.
# anotheryou The basic mechanisms: author/curator rates what he posts, subscriber can adjust authors in his feed up or down, everything is read by importance (most to least)
# petermolnar what is private posts?
# Loqi private posts refer to posts or portions of posts which are private to either the author or to a limited audience chosen or previously approved by the author https://indieweb.org/private_posts
# petermolnar what is private webmention?
# Loqi The Private Webmention protocol is an extension to Webmention that supports sending and verifying Webmentions for posts that require access control https://indieweb.org/private-webmention
# anotheryou thanks
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# [kevinmarks] m'colleagues at Digital Catapult have an open call for Future Social Media pitches that closes this week for an event next week https://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/open-calls/future-social-media-enhancing-cohesion-through-advanced-digital-technology/ - need to be based in EU and "Are developing or have developed a project, innovation or solution using social media that aims to enhance cohesion between technology providers, creative content
# [kevinmarks] users/adopters and research (this could mean academic research or business-led R&D)"
# [kevinmarks] that sounds potentially indieweb shaped to me - anyone interested?
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# anotheryou [kevinmarks]: could this include a rather non-profit research concept? Or is it just about startups and built products?
# anotheryou Well I guess it would be a risky application anyways, speaking against most of the "advanced" technologies XD
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@xtof_party Comment se sevrer soi-même de Facebook ? (#indieweb)
Extrait de la page de travail Facebook-fr sur le wiki indieweb
Plutôt que de quitter définitivement FB, j’ai opté pour ces bons conseils éclairés de @t.
Au programme des prochaines semaines : ... https://microblog.ducamp.me/2018/04/05/comment-se-sevrer.html (twitter.com/_/status/981854872923500544)
# [jgmac1106] @anotheryou it reads incubator ready so sounds like MVP or close to is required... But then it says must currently deploy or plan to deploy advanced technologies. Confusing RFP
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# anotheryou [jgmac1106]: and something about research, too
# anotheryou but yea, I guess it needs to have: MVP, some buzzword tech and be commercial
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# [kevinmarks] it talks about research too
# [kevinmarks] "Startups, scaleups, academics, researchers, cluster representatives (creative / technology) and representatives from citizen-focused and digital literacy organisations across Europe are invited to attend. "
# [kevinmarks] it's worth a look
# anotheryou [kevinmarks]: yes, but not for the open call, so only as guests I guess
# 
@kevinmarks Digital Catapult open call for Future Social Media pitches: https://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/open-calls/future-social-media-enhancing-cohesion-through-advanced-digital-technology/ - in EU with "a project, innovation or solution using social media that aims to enhance cohesion between technology providers, creative content makers, their users/adopters and research" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/981867598789791744)
# Loqi [superfeedr] "Digital Catapult open call for Future Social ..." by Kevin Marks on 2018-04-05 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2018/digital-catapult-open-call-for-future-social
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# petermolnar https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16764602 - context: friendica, for which I commented that protocols are still not finished for true federation. Do we have something on the wiki to answer the question of what should social web be capable of as a viable minimum product to replace something like facebook? SWAT0 sounds like one, but the SWAT0 page need a lot of indieweb knowledge.
# 
Zegnat The SWAT0 page on the wiki is mostly about mapping it to the IndieWeb. Is the general https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/SWAT0 better, petermolnar?
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# [kevinmarks] freindica is tf;dr
# petermolnar what is tf;dr?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tf;dr" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "tf;dr is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [kevinmarks] apparently not in loqi syntax
# [kevinmarks] what is tf;dr?
# Loqi tf;dr is too faint; didn't read - sites that use light weight typefaces with low contrast colours to the point of illegibility See also https://www.wired.com/2016/10/how-the-web-became-unreadable/ https://indieweb.org/tf;dr
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@davidmead Another #silo bites the dust. @OpenTable is shutting down @Foodspotting.
#indieweb (http://djm.click/blog/b/5UW) (twitter.com/_/status/981925472681578497)
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# [jgmac1106] one issue with indieweb model of syndication in just algorithm punishment. I started publishing much more natively on LinkedIn because engagement is so much higher then using their writing platform or a syndicated post. Any company blog post still lives at home and syndicates to LinkedIn
# Loqi Syndication models are various methods of syndicating or crossposting content from one site to another generally based on the source and target of the original post and the copy (or multiple copies) as well as who owns the original version first https://indieweb.org/syndication-models
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# snarfed sknebel: yes, FB. http://boffosocko.com/2017/07/11/the-facebook-algorithm-mom-problem/
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# [jgmac1106] The amount of lift versus laziness wasn't the point. And I don't know if it is audience behavior as well as as, or instead of, algorithm but for a business engagement is too costly of a trade off. I have no proof but my own stats and I don't have a huge network...and educator networks are always different, but the problem is I don't know if a syndicated link is weighted or not weighted differently. Feels that way. Mobile first. Automation second
# [jgmac1106] think for indieweb model to spread in grassroot ways among business communities like it has in tech hubs
# [jgmac1106] Responsive web app
# [jgmac1106] Funny firefoxOS may not live on but its nice to see the underlying vision will win
# [jgmac1106] Combined with some kind of dashboard like [aaronpk] built with a few quick analytics plug-ins (I think give away the platform sell the plug-ins is a model worth exploring) then you have a good story to tell
# chrisaldrich snarfed: can one add a reacji to a github issue sub-comment (using a fragment), or is it only possible for the top level issue? Not clear in https://brid.gy/about/#github-reaction
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# [snarfed] [chrisaldrich] yup! https://brid.gy/about#to+issues thanks for the judge, I'll fix the docs
# chrisaldrich snarfed++ :)
# chrisaldrich Many systems default rss feeds to the 10 most recent items. I'm curious how many in the indieweb have significantly upped their default after adding notes, replies, and other content types?
# chrisaldrich Perhaps this is the additional benefit of h-feed as one can continue parsing backwards and not relying on a separate RSS feed at all
# [snarfed] ugh, yes, post velocity is definitely a problem for some use cases, but no, fetching more backward isn't that much easier with h-feed in practice. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/771
# chrisaldrich What are high velocity posts?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "high velocity posts" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "high velocity posts is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# KartikPrabhu s/velocity/frequency
# chrisaldrich I remember Facebook hiding some of their higher velocity stuff (scrobbles coming in via API) in a sidebar...
# chrisaldrich likes that kartik attempts to separate his physics and indieweb terminology ;)
# KartikPrabhu frequency and velocity are both physics ;)
# chrisaldrich I suspect it's a large potential issue for feed readers and maybe something that microsub may ease for many.
# chrisaldrich KartikPrabhu, I ν that... :p
# 
@jgmac1106 When I was running all the social media channels for @scsu #GearUpworks I tried to build in all the #indieweb .. http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/when-i-was-running-all-the-social-media-channels-for (twitter.com/_/status/981961981786812418)
# @jgmac1106 When I was running all the social media channels for @scsu #GearUpworks I tried to build in all the #indieweb tools into our system. The one thing I missed would have been SMS syndication. When working with kids and parents often, fighting data caps, SMS… http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/when-i-was-running-all-the-social-media-channels-for (twitter.com/_/status/981961986673074176)
# Loqi [superfeedr] "When I was running all the social media channels for @scsu #GearUpworks I tried to build in all the #indieweb tools into our system. The" by Greg McVerry on 2018-04-05 http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/when-i-was-running-all-the-social-media-channels-for
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gRegorLove I guess now that I live in SoCal I'll have more use for /marked_safe posts
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# chrisaldrich gRegorLove did you guys have temblor today?
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# [sdepolo] Hey does anyone here know the status of the Open Source Bridge 2018 conf (mentioned on [schmarty]’s excellent podcast) as adjacent to the IndieWeb Summit in Portland in June? Their site http://opensourcebridge.org/ doesn’t appear to be updated since 2017.
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# [sdepolo] Thanks [aaronpk] do you know if the dates are confirmed? I am trying to bring a posse from GoDaddy to both events and pitching the team.
# gRegorLove chrisaldrich: you did! It was off the coast by LA
# gRegorLove Didn't feel it down in SD.
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# chrisaldrich gRegorLove, ha! must have been something in the 3.X range, I didn't notice anything. Usually it's the fires I worry more about than the earthquakes.
# gRegorLove 5.3, but yeah fires definitely seem more dangerous. https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/San-Diego-Magnitude-50-Earthquake-Shakes-Southern-California-478904143.html
# chrisaldrich In fact right now I'm concerned about a sheriff's helicopter hovering over the mountain about 3 blocks away... typically means a fire of some sort.
# gRegorLove Glad you're safe
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# chrisaldrich Problem is, it's so hazy and cloudy on the mountain, I probably could distinguish a fire up there today.
# chrisaldrich s/could/couldn't
# @ChrisAldrich ↩️ Yes, you have to publish first. Looks like there's something putting a lot of hidden svg files into your content. A plugin perhaps?
You can also find some potential help in the chat at https://chat.indieweb.org/wordpress/ (twitter.com/_/status/981995652954673153)
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