#indieweb 2018-04-06

2018-04-06 UTC
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dansup Oh man, I announced I am working on ActivityPub support for GNU Social and I didn't expect such a big response! It feels great. https://mastodon.social/@dansup/99808608417729060
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Loqi [dansup] ActivityPub support for GNU Social is in the works! I'll be working with @up201705417 on a plugin this summer. https://git.gnu.io/dansup/ActivityPub/blob/dev/actions/activitypubactor.php
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dansup I'll be mentoring a GSoC student, I already started but he will take it from here.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Anyone who didn't get enough of Open Domains Lab this afternoon is more than welcome to join in on the #IndieWeb chat to continue conversing" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-04-06 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/anyone-who-didnt-get-enough-of-open-domains-lab-this
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@ChrisAldrich Anyone who didn't get enough of Open Domains Lab this afternoon is more than welcome to join in on the #IndieWeb chat to continue conversing and building their website. #DoOO https://twitter.com/TaylorJadin/status/979489643925295104 https://indieweb.org/discuss (twitter.com/_/status/982058741045563392)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-04-06.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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@Estudio_Rey El mundo está escandalizado con el caso #Facebook ... A mí me alucina el grado de inocencia y pasividad de los usuarios... Hay otra web más allá del tráfico de datos: #indieWeb https://indieweb.org/Main_Page-es (twitter.com/_/status/982130638651191297)
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Zegnat Does anyone link books with their ISBN numbers? Is there some sort of ISBN archive that is good to link to?
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sknebel Wikipedia has these links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780300144246
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sknebel I assume some people link to the goodreads entry, although probably not through the ISBN
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Zegnat I think that page isn’t really helpful as it doesn’t display anything about the book. Not even a name. You are always going to need to click through.
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[kevinmarks] Open library at Internet archive is good
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[kevinmarks] https://openlibrary.org
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[kevinmarks] https://openlibrary.org/developers/api
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Zegnat Also incomplete? I am very surprised there isn’t just a definitive catalogue of ISBN numbers.
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[kevinmarks] They're delegated to countries iirc
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sknebel Zegnat: yeah, but an inspiration for what kinds of things you could link
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Zegnat Linking to OpenLibrary now, lets see how well that holds up. https://zegnat.net/tmp/bookshelf.html
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Zegnat Aww, Loqi doesn’t do names/authors from feed pages? :(
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[kevinmarks] They have an api to get cover images too
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Zegnat I’ll look into that! I might upload my own photos for covers though. Since some books might not be worth the time investment to find it.
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[kevinmarks] If you have covers they don't, they will happily accept them too.
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@sl007 ↩️ @RobertHabeck scheint da mehr Durchblick zu haben – “Das bedeute im Klartext, dass man Facebook seine Töchter Whatsapp und Instagram auch wieder wegnehmen können müsse” [RP von heute] – so ist das nämlich. Und dazu https://indieweb.org/Events fördern ! (twitter.com/_/status/982254962016071681)
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[gerwitz] Am I imaging that there’s some inconsistency on the wiki (and the remainder of the universe) with the use of “post kind” and “post type”?
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Zegnat What is post kind?
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Loqi Post or posts may refer to individual pieces of content published on an indieweb site such as notes, articles, & responses, or the act of creating the aforementioned content (present tense), or Posts about the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/post_kind
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Zegnat What is post type?
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Loqi Post or posts may refer to individual pieces of content published on an indieweb site such as notes, articles, & responses, or the act of creating the aforementioned content (present tense), or Posts about the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/post_type
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aaronpk afaik "post kind" is a wordpress term
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Zegnat Looks like they are used as synonyms on the wiki?
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Zegnat Post type sound like the term we should be sticking to on the wiki? Since Post Type Discovery is the name on the Social Web WG note that was published.
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aaronpk wordpress already has a "type" so they started using "kind" to refer to indieweb post types
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skippy Hugo also has a distinction between "type" and "kind".
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skippy http://gohugo.io/content-management/types/
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skippy https://gohugo.io/templates/section-templates/#page-kinds
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Zegnat Sounds like their type matches our type.
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skippy aye
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Zegnat type being “what sort of content am I displaying”, and kind being “what sort of document am I generating”
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Zegnat [gerwitz], did you run into the inconsistency on any specific page where we can clear it up?
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[gerwitz] Looking for a heuristic for determining what “kind” a post is, I found both https://indieweb.org/post-type-discovery and https://indieweb.org/posts#Infering_post_kinds_from_properties
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aaronpk post-type-discovery is the formalizing of that section on /posts
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aaronpk we should probably collapse that section and point to post-type-discovery
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Loqi I agree
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Add Twitter mentions of #DoOO to one of IndieWeb chat channels" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-04-06 http://boffosocko.com/2018/04/06/add-twitter-mentions-of-dooo-to-one-of-indieweb-chat-channels/
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Zegnat I wonder if it is just worth doing a replace of “kind” with “type” on that page, just to use 1 term everywhere
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aaronpk imo if it's not talking about the wordpress plugin it should say "type"
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Zegnat Agreed. I might try and clear that page up later today. And move some of the algorithm discussion to the PTD page :)
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aaronpk 👍
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Zegnat [gerwitz]++ for prompting a page for clearing!
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Loqi gerwitz has 1 karma in this channel (2 overall)
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bear gerwitz++
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Loqi gerwitz has 2 karma in this channel (3 overall)
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@cleverdevil The writing has long been on the wall: Twitter is going to destroy its third-party ecosystem. Why? To focus on controlling the entire experience for their proprietary platform. If you haven’t considered the #IndieWeb, now is the time. With services… https://cleverdevil.io/2018/the-writing-has-long-been-on-the (twitter.com/_/status/982307638808662016)
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Zegnat the word “kinds” is now only used to explain that some CMS (like WordPress) may call it kinds instead of types. Seeing people bring up these micro copy problems is great! They are (easily) fixable and hopefully make the wiki more accessible
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sknebel Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 86 karma in this channel (192 overall)
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[ryan339] Well, this will push me off of twitter much more quickly than I was expecting: http://apps-of-a-feather.com/
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aaronpk same
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[cleverdevil] +1
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skippy maybe it's time for me to set up a Mastodon server after all.
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skippy anyone know: can you set up a standalone, private, non-federated Mastodon instance for a closed group?
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[cleverdevil] Unlike with Facebook, I actually have no burning desire to leave Twitter.
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[cleverdevil] I enjoy reading Twitter and interacting on the platform.
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[cleverdevil] But, this will make it much less enjoyable.
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skippy i would happily pay to use twitter.
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[cleverdevil] Same.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "The writing has long been on the ..." by Jonathan LaCour on 2018-04-06 https://cleverdevil.io/2018/the-writing-has-long-been-on-the
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@adactio ↩️ @jasonsantamaria Better yet …webmentions! https://indieweb.org/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/982333794874146816)
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aaronpk probably what will end up happening is i will continue to syndicate stuff there but will never really interact with people anymore
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aaronpk oh crap also these tweets will stop showing up ^^
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aaronpk if the search api sticks around at least they might still show up just really delayed
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[cleverdevil] Will bridgy continue to function? Granary?
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snarfed yup, they don't use the streaming API
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aaronpk guess i might end up switching more of my twitter consumption to granary.io then
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[cleverdevil] I currently have all of my Twitter feeds in Aperture thanks to granary.io, but I still tend to consume in Tweetbot.
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[cleverdevil] Mostly because its real-time.
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[cleverdevil] (Also, it tends to render some things better... mostly notably retweets and quoted retweets, etc.)
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[cleverdevil] Without the real-time advantage, I suppose I would just move to Together.
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bear I like using Night Owl because it's a clean UI on my desktop and never crashes - gives me all my feed as a scrolling one-line-per-tweet list
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bear but yea, without realtime I may as well dustoff my python twitter-to-disk tool
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aaronpk [cleverdevil]: i want to improve the RT/QT parsing in Aperture, so feel free to open issues there
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[cleverdevil] Oh, cool.
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[cleverdevil] I haven't had a chance to really dig and figure out if its granary, aperture, or together.
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[cleverdevil] Or some combination of the three!
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aaronpk feel free to start with aperture :)
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[cleverdevil] aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 551 karma in this channel (1611 overall)
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aaronpk it's doing most of the heavy lifting in the overall picture
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[cleverdevil] Indeed.
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[cleverdevil] Since successfully getting PunyAuth running on AWS Lambda, I've been thinking more and more about the possibility of the Micropub layer living there as well.
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[cleverdevil] It would be possible to make something in the AWS Marketplace that people could one-click install that would give them a totally serverless IndieWeb website.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "🎧 This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition March 24th – 30th, 2018" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-04-06 http://boffosocko.com/2018/04/06/this-week-in-the-indieweb-audio-edition-march-24th-30th-2018/
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[cleverdevil] Including micropub + media endpoint, indieauth, etc.
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aaronpk that'd be pretty neat
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, and the cost would be near zero.
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[cleverdevil] Well, not near zero I suppose.
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[cleverdevil] But, super cheap.
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[cleverdevil] For most personal websites, I am guessing less than a buck a month.
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[cleverdevil] Puny running on Lambda may be my IWS project this year 🙂
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[cleverdevil] Now, I just need someone else who is proficient in Python who wants to participate with me 🙂
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snarfed ducks
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grantcodes I've been doing all my Twitter through together for the past week or so and I love it
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grantcodes Does have that issue with retweet formating though
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gRegorLove What is Night Owl?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Night Owl" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Night Owl is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] [snarfed] is it possible for Twitter to block granary as well? Or are you just scraping?
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bear Night Owl is a desktop Twitter client that used be called YoruFukurou and can be found at https://sites.google.com/site/yorufukurou/home-en
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Loqi ok
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bear [cleverdevil] count me in for that
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schmarty cleverdevil++ such awesome progress! I have a similar dream about making it dead simple to spin up an indieweb site for cheap on something like lambda or heroku.
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Loqi cleverdevil has 46 karma in this channel (79 overall)
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schmarty If I can adapt it to my static site stored on GitHub I’d be excited to contribute to Puny
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[cleverdevil] Cool!
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bear same - would love to get my code to be able to have the dynamic stuff not depend on some janky python code I wrote ;)
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[cleverdevil] The auth side is pretty well documented right now.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Medium is only an edge server of your POSSE CDN, your own blog is the origin" on 2017-11-08 https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/11/medium-is-only-an-edge-server-of-your-posse-cdn-your-own-blog-is-the-origin.html
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Loqi [superfeedr] "So long Disqus, hello Webmention" on 2017-07-26 https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/07/so-long-disqus-hello-webmentions.html
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[cleverdevil] The publishing side still very much assumes a long running process which serves out content.
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[cleverdevil] The place I need the most help is definitely generating HTML.
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bear I lean on templates for that - borrow html and css from others, pipe it all thru Jinja2 templates
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[cleverdevil] Nice. That’s sort of what I have been doing so far but with mako templates.
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[cleverdevil] Currently it all renders on demand, but it should be straightforward to render it statically.
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bear I render on demand also - I just hardcoded the rendering of the main page along with any secondary pages
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[cleverdevil] FYI, this is how I run PunyAuth on Lambda - https://www.reliam.com/blog/going-serverless-with-python-wsgi-apps/
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@ChrisAldrich A gentle introduction to the #IndieWeb and how you can regain control of your online identity and data without relying on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, et. al. http://boffosocko.com/2017/07/28/an-introduction-to-the-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/982342546750783488)
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bear interesting - I see how that is a huge benefit but the ops side of me cringes at not having a web server being available :)
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Zegnat “ops side”, running “on Lambda”, hmm, probably better to take this in #indieweb-dev? :)
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bear yea, I was thinking that
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[miklb] yes, instead lets just do a bunch of “what is…” in the channel instead 😉
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bear :)
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@cleverdevil Such a useful post by Chris Aldrich on the #IndieWeb! https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/982342546750783488 (twitter.com/_/status/982343202014285825)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Such a useful post by Chris Aldrich ..." by Jonathan LaCour on 2018-04-06 https://cleverdevil.io/2018/such-a-useful-post-by-chris-aldrich
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Loqi [superfeedr] "An Introduction to the IndieWeb" by ChrisAldrich on 2017-07-28 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/an-introduction-to-the-indieweb-e5579573fb55?source=rss----12b80d28f892---4
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snarfed [cleverdevil]: oh sure, twitter could just turn off the REST API(s) that granary uses. and granary does scrape to get likes, which they've inexplicably never exposed in any API.
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snarfed they're in the middle of a big (probably multi year) transition from the existing APIs to new ones - https://blog.twitter.com/developer/en_us/topics/tools/2017/building-the-future-of-the-twitter-api-platform.html - but the functionality granary/bridgy need should generally all survive
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[cleverdevil] Yes more appropriate for #dev. Will take it there 😀
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[ryan339] https://twitter.com/TwitterDev/status/982346370882461696
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@TwitterDev Last year we announced our plan to retire Site Streams & User Streams, and replace them with the Account Activity API (currently in beta). We are delaying the scheduled June 19th deprecation date. (twitter.com/_/status/982346370882461696)
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[cleverdevil] LOL
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[cleverdevil] Cloud of certainty no cloud of UNcertainty! News at 11!
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Loqi [superfeedr] "cbfish.es, my new personal link shortener!" on 2018-04-06 https://chrisbeckstrom.tumblr.com/post/172661395796
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sknebel great, "we'll break your stuff at some point in the future and give you 90 days warning"
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sknebel but at least it sounds like they'll really wait until the alternative is available to all
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-04-06.html
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[jjdelc] I just added Grumble to the list of micropub clients https://indieweb.org/Micropub/Clients#Grumble
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Zegnat [jjdelc]++
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Loqi jjdelc has 1 karma in this channel (3 overall)
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@iamjeffperry ↩️ You don’t have to Pay if you have your own WordPress website. As far as family, they need to get more informed on how to own their own content and make their own corner of the internet. I am putting more and more eggs in the #IndieWeb basket. (twitter.com/_/status/982366571472609282)
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@chrisbergr ↩️ This, Sir, is so well written. I'll definitely use your article for reference while satisfying someone else for the #indieweb. Thank you. (twitter.com/_/status/982367033865195520)
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skippy charset problems on https://micro.blog/miklb ? Because WP is a platform it �competes�
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[miklb] yeah, I don’t know what that’s about. I need to create a custom feed for just original notes fo micro.blog
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skippy i am increasingly overwhelmed by the tools and the duplication in this space. Maybe I'm just having a bad day; but brid.gy, micropub syndication, micro.blog cross-posting, etc etc leaves me wondering how I want to handle POSSEing my tweets...
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skippy correction: I *am* having a bad day.
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tantek skippy it was so much simpler when you had to write your own custom POSSE code to syndicate to Twitter :)
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skippy heh
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "An Introduction to the IndieWeb" http://boffosocko.com/2017/07/28/an-introduction-to-the-indieweb/ (from https://aaronparecki.com/2018/04/06/19/)
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jalcine that's a serious thing tho
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@bobdesa64 Top story: Webmention - IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/Webmention, see more http://tweetedtimes.com/helikopterdsgn/must-follow-web-designers-2?s=tnp (twitter.com/_/status/982372812244635649)
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@EJCSoftwareS Top story: Webmention - IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/Webmention, see more http://tweetedtimes.com/helikopterdsgn/must-follow-web-designers-2?s=tnp (twitter.com/_/status/982372813972656129)
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@web_advice Top story: Webmention - IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/Webmention, see more http://tweetedtimes.com/helikopterdsgn/must-follow-web-designers-2?s=tnp (twitter.com/_/status/982372816074039296)
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jalcine I've tried convincing a few friends about joining and a recurring theme was the sense of duplicity
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jalcine granted - duplicity is a nature of computer science; no one route is the truest path to 'success'
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tantek jalcine: what do you do on your own site?
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jalcine but they felt like there was no 'official' project or referenced standard
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jalcine Currently, it's only being leveraged for auth. It supports sending webmentions and I'm working on having them be visible by EoW
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sknebel IndieAuth and webmention is already 2 standards ;)
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jalcine but it's all via Jekyll which makes it a wee bit more difficult
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jalcine true
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jalcine ah like W3C standards
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tantek what are standards
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Loqi social standards refers to web standards that have a social component, that is, for people (e.g https://indieweb.org/standards
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jalcine I think it's largely a language barrier (which is puntastic b/c they're all devs)
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aaronpk this is the good/bad thing about the indieweb
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tantek jalcine, if they're devs, invite them to #Indieweb-dev for a quick chat on those matters
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aaronpk there can't be just one solution by definition, otherwise it'd just be another monoculture or silo
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tantek we'll clear up any questions / misconceptions quickly
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jalcine they don't use IRC :/
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tantek including that point ^^^
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jalcine but I can try in the next few days
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jalcine I was going to invite them to the next homebrew meeting at Mozilla SF
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tantek chat.indieweb.org/slack
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tantek they're devs that don't use IRC? fascinating
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bear thankfully this community doesn't silo even it's communications - web/irc/slack - all available
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jalcine lol it's post-2010 devs
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jalcine word I'll def try it
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bear stops before he rants about post-browser devs
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tantek invites bear to #Indieweb-meta :)
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bear is that on irc also?
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bear it is!
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sknebel yes, we don't have channels that aren't on irc
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bear true, discovery can be a pain sometimes
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jalcine bear: lol I can go on for days about this
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jalcine this = post-browser days
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bear i'm in my fourth generate of post-<something> dev cycle
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bear grr s/generate/generation/
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jalcine ah def
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jalcine but yeah @tantek, if I can't get them in here; I'll try to codify it in a open-esque forum
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-04-06.html
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@aegisdesign Ugh. So I've deleted Facebook already. Twitter is next if they're going to kill off 3rd party app features. Been trialling my own #indieweb POSSE setup and like it so far. (twitter.com/_/status/982378972955709440)
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-04-06.html https://t.co/DvUtXCUg1t (twitter.com/_/status/982381205382246400)
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@chipotlecoyote Wondering if maybe that idea I had for a turnkey “indieweb” microblogging app wasn’t so crazy after all. (twitter.com/_/status/982382825155555328)
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@jackyalcine ↩️ @chipotlecoyote Check the wiki on http://indieweb.org/ before hand! Let's build it together (twitter.com/_/status/982383119058661376)
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@paulrobertlloyd ↩️ http://Micro.blog has native iOS and macOS apps, but as the service is built upon the IndieWeb stack, any editor that supports MicroPub can be used to post to your Micro blog. (twitter.com/_/status/982386992569872384)
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aaronpk i was just invited to a social event that exists only as a calendar invite sent via email
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aaronpk how novel
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aaronpk it works surprisingly well. people can RSVP yes/no/maybe, you can see the guest list, there's room for the date/time/location, and a description
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[kevinmarks] site deaths << https://longreads.com/2018/04/06/digital-media-and-the-case-of-the-missing-archives/amp/?__indieweb_impression=true
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Loqi ok, I added "https://longreads.com/2018/04/06/digital-media-and-the-case-of-the-missing-archives/amp/?__indieweb_impression=true" to the "See Also" section of /site-deaths https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=46683&oldid=46623
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jalcine that's a goal @aaronpk
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jalcine things like private events for dinner, I don't want to keep on facebook
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jalcine esp if I don't have some people on there
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[ryan339] [aaronpk] yah this describes a pretty powerful protocol for this sort of stuff! https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6047. dunno why we need centralized tools for this 😕
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jalcine woah
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jalcine I'm surprised nextcloud doesn't have this inbuilt
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jalcine hm but exchange supports iMIP
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gRegorLove kevinmarks, where did the indieweb_impression come from in that URL?
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[kevinmarks] Me editing it from twitter_impression
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aaronpk lol
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[kevinmarks] I do that to utm's as well
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[kevinmarks] I want some growth hacker somewhere going "I don't remember putting that tracking option in"
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[kevinmarks] Interesting terminology gap, or bikeshedding? https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/982397289854517249?s=19
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@codinghorror @kevinmarks @xor @discourse Fair, what would be the correct term in this case? Archiving? (twitter.com/_/status/982397289854517249)