#indieweb 2018-05-31

2018-05-31 UTC
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@ChrisAldrich Virtual Homebrew Website Club Meetup is about to start on Google Hangouts: https://boffosocko.com/2018/05/16/virtual-homebrew-website-club-meetup-on-may-30-2018 (twitter.com/_/status/1001983839651205120)
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@jgmac1106 #indieweb chrisaldrich: Chris shared a blog from a read post that he set up with a newspaper in Colorado (twitter.com/_/status/1001986660920328192)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb gwg: Is showing how to change the settings in the the semantic feedback plug-ion. Chris had helped Ian edit his database but the feature existed in the UI. (twitter.com/_/status/1001987074495602688)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb wiobyrne: does a 1-2 posts a week as his new "tick-tock" About a few weeks ago he built up a site to as his book. (twitter.com/_/status/1001989844183154690)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb wiobyrne: I am trying to have a little breadcrumb site in a meaningful and intentional way. and keep my long form writing on another site. (twitter.com/_/status/1001990027503702017)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb wiobyrne: I need to really understand this so I can explain it to people who won't go and try to figure it out. (twitter.com/_/status/1001990161926934528)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb wiobyrne: now I am trying a set up a process, that isn't working, about trying to bookmark and summarize and little by little I will fold in more things on my breadcrumbs site. (twitter.com/_/status/1001990487698542592)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb wiobyrne: I am looking for one good tool to build on my site to be my breadcrumb trail (twitter.com/_/status/1001990627645710336)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb taylorjadin: We are going with a #DOO project. For years teachers have been using wordpress sites, and giving students the rights as authors. (twitter.com/_/status/1001992229324558337)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb @floatingtim: Jim discusses his #DOO project at a university in Allentown, PA. (twitter.com/_/status/1001992978116857862)
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tantek whoa noterlive?
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1001993114909802496)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb GregorLove_: Gregor has been developing a secret project that is a micropub read/write reader. (twitter.com/_/status/1001993278999465985)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb chrisaldrich: Shares http://coloradobolevard.net which gets his first read posts. It is so cool to see #IndieWeb posts on blogs (twitter.com/_/status/1001994425407504384)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb chrisaldrich: Twitter used to have a nice open API and there were 1,000s of apps. Micropub is an open API that allows you to post anywhere and create a nice API for specific posts (twitter.com/_/status/1001995505285689344)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb chrisaldrich: I uses http://reading.am and PESOS back to my site and then the other time I am using Press Forward. It is an rss feed reader built in my website. I use that a good bit to read stuff in my WordPress install. (twitter.com/_/status/1001996059097358342)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb wiobyrne: I would like to pull people up for 20 minutes and just have people go through their site and say this how I work. So you could take half that story like just your mobile workflow. then another on yoru desktop workflo (twitter.com/_/status/1001996393094025216)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #indieweb jgmac1106: I think @wiobyrne found his #IndieWeb podcast show topic. 10 minute tours (twitter.com/_/status/1001996622597849090)
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@jgmac1106 #indieweb jgmac1106: I make the point the wiki alone isn't enough you need community plus wiki . You can get lost. Also we need to make our front end structure as important as our backend. (twitter.com/_/status/1001998382423072768)
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jgmac1106 bye [gwg]
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GWG jgmac1106: Just had to reload. The audio cut out
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tantek here at HWC SF - just discussed the topics / announcments
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tantek and now demos!
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tantek kate-park.com!
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tantek has been working on her site for a bit more than a month
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tantek but has done a couple of posts
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tantek installed WordPress and set it up
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tantek not many challenges
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tantek wants to write a story, kind of like a magazine, coming out in different sections
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tantek working on page 2 currently
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tantek people can add comments on the current page and say what they want to see
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tantek and she can incorporate that into page 2
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tantek plugins just defaults, not activated yet
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jgmac1106 so noterlive went down on me. Will take notes here
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tantek no indieweb plugins (yet)
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tantek j12t added a comment!
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tantek thanks kate!
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jalcine random re: summit - is anyone going to donutjs after?
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jalcine https://donutjs.club/
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tantek jalcine: definitely!
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tantek I think we're accepting each others registrations?
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jalcine oh that's interesting
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tantek jalcine: while you're here note no HWC SF on 2018-06-13 - aaronpk j12t and I are going to the dweb meetup
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jalcine ah very good to note
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tantek as noted: https://indieweb.org/events/2018-06-13-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco
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tantek you should sign-up and join us too!
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jalcine definitely
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Loqi I agree
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jalcine haha
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j12t tantek posted to his site to encourage W3C advisory committee members to vote: http://tantek.com/2018/150/t2/vote-w3cab-election
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Reminder @W3C Advisory Committee members: TODAY 23:59 EDT is the deadline to vote in the current @W3CAB election! Please take a few minutes to vote: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/101147/ab20180502/ I and six others are running: https://www.w3.org...
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jgmac1106 is [loqi] the same person [aarponk]?
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tantek just demonstrated syndicating to a private mailing list, and noting that in a private window the syndication link requires login to view
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tantek also showed Futurepub!
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tantek Kate is working on installing #indieweb-wordpress plugins to her site!
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gRegorLove What is Futurepub?
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Loqi Futurepub is a Micropub proxy that can post to another Micropub server on your behalf sometime in the future https://indieweb.org/Futurepub
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jgmac1106 places like these that I want to bring to IndieWeb educatiion: https://github.com/OpenScienceMOOC/Main/issues/9
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Loqi [Protohedgehog] #9 Should we build our own course/community?
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tantek jgmac1106: I'm surprised Known is not already there! (I feel like it's built for that?)
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jgmac1106 I mentioned it in my comment. As long as I don’t see another react site I can’t read
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jgmac1106 Actually I pushed hard against MoFO using Teachable for all their vounlteer training. Would have used it as an opportunity to get more folks onto the web
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jgmac1106 used to spin up Known instances for different groups all the time: http://coderdojoerode.networkedlearningcollaborative.com/ To me its stll the best indieweb education choice
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@jgmac1106 My Notes from our Virtual Homebrew Website Club: https://jgregorymcverry.com/my-notes-from-our-virtual-homebrew-website-club/ https://t.co/HdiIbLufLv (twitter.com/_/status/1002025878161887232)
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[Natris1979] What is Virtual Homebrew Website Club?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Virtual Homebrew Website Club" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Virtual Homebrew Website Club is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[chrisaldrich] What is Virtual HWC?
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Loqi Virtual HWC is an online Homebrew Website Club for IndieWebbers who either can’t make a regular meeting or don’t yet have critical mass to host one in their area https://indieweb.org/Virtual_HWC
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@danbar87 Do you know the IndieWeb? https://buff.ly/2KqqN52 (twitter.com/_/status/1002088792709267456)
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[kevinmarks] How did noterlive.com break?
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/AdrianChen/status/1001859652571795456?s=19
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@AdrianChen This scaremongering ad against EU privacy laws makes me really want the EU privacy laws https://nyti.ms/2GUk3JT https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DedSB1nWsAEXs5R.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1001859652571795456)
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@iamjessklein ↩️ I would love to follow up on this thinking ... I never actually did beyond this one inspiring session where I learned so much from the indiewebcamp crew (twitter.com/_/status/1002105265804673024)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ @toolness @GregorLove @t @araonpk @wiobyrne @zegnat @chrisaldrich @gwg Many of us have been thinking how webmentions could create the most light weight credentialing platform out there. Here are some of my thoughts: https://jgregorymcverry.com/can-we-have-an-indieweb-webmentions-credentialing-system-openbadges/ Please come… https://jgregorymcverry.com/3007-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1002115939591221249)
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jgmac1106 good morning all
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@jgmac1106 @chirsaldrich @Drupal will have a much steeper learning curve then @WordPress but I already know it will be a better #IndieWeb path….if I can climb the hill. Not meant for anyone who doesn’t have good knowledge of command line and a ton of prior… https://jgregorymcverry.com/3011-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1002143288974086145)
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jgmac1106 off to feed the kids and start the day. My morning #indieweb hour is over (well took an extra). Have a great day all
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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Zegnat Heh, I wonder what the person behing @zegnat on Twitter thinks of [jgmac1106]’s tweet
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[jgmac1106] Morning @zegnat. Did I mix up user names again?
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[jgmac1106] Was just going to say thx for all the mf2 help yesterday
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Zegnat Not really a mix up, just that I do not go by Zegnat on Twitter
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[jgmac1106] @gwg later mentioned "I always wanted to make an h-cite bibliography tool" ... And I was like.... well.. Check the Convo split in mf2 and dev...
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Zegnat There is also someone using @sknebel on Twitter, who isn’t our sknebel, who must have had some confusing tweets aimed at them
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[jgmac1106] Twitter handle? If you are on the silo
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Zegnat @martijnvdven
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Zegnat You’d want the twitter-POSSE-code to fix that, I guess, but it is a niche sort of market.
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Zegnat Although I think both aaronpk and sebsel have systems in place for mentioning people indieweb style on their own sites, and it getting rewritten to proper twitter handles during POSSE
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Zegnat What is nickname cache?
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Loqi A nicknames cache is a way indieweb sites store information about people to improve the user experience of the site owner referring, mention, and/or linking to those people https://indieweb.org/nickname_cache
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GWG [jgmac1106]: Not quite that, I wanted to transfer records, not bibliographies
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[jgmac1106] ohh my bad, I am doing a research project with Tianjin University of Technology library on records and (physical) bot retrievals. I'll have to catch up with you on that
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GWG There was a great discussion
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GWG Think Librarything or Goodreads book data
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@jgmac1106 For everyone who attended the #IndieWeb vHWC last night here is an example of a user page on the wiki from @mrkndvs https://indieweb.org/User:Readwriterespond.com you should each start your own (I need to as well). cc/ @wiobyrne @floatingtim (https://jgregorymcverry.com/3013-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1002175850668855297)
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@jgmac1106 @wiobyrne @chrisaldrich Going to run an #IndieWeb Blogging 101 session next few Wednesdays got a couple of emails that are technical talk scared off some folks just looking for tips on how to set up WordPress and be a better blogger. #edtechchat… https://jgregorymcverry.com/3015-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1002194606791053313)
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GWG A blogging session sounds fun
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jgmac1106 Just saw Taylor Jadin’s post about Domains Lab, may piggy back off that but I can’t due Thursdays until after baseball. Stupid sportsball
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jgmac1106 Cub Scouts Tuesday, Golf Wednesday, and baseball Thursday FML
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@klandwehr How do you create a list of syndication targets on a http://micro.blog website. In other words where do I add any code I need to indieweb, (twitter.com/_/status/1002217735936462848)
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snarfed sooooo facebook backfeed may be dead due to deliberate policy change on their end after all. :(:(:( https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/826#issuecomment-393580119
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Loqi [snarfed] sigh. looks like it is permissions after all. another update from FB today: > Sorry for the confusion. > > This is intentional and due to the changes we announced here - https://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/2018/05/01/facebook-login-updates-fur...
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aaronpk facebook--
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Loqi facebook has -15 karma
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skippy silos gonna silo.
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[cleverdevil] Good morning, IndieWeb!
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[cleverdevil] Yikes on Facebook backfeed. End of an era!
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[cleverdevil] Hey, I just saw that [tantek] demoed Futurepub at HWC SF! Let me know how it went 🙂
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[cleverdevil] Did anyone get a chance to try it out yet?
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[jgmac1106] could you ever develop a bridgy app that would only backfeed if it got explicit permission. Like could my family set up a private backfeed account and still meet ToS. doubt facebook would allow it but I bet many would want or pay for it
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[tantek] Did not get a chance to actually try it - I showed the home page and described how it works and why
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aaronpk it sounds like if other people are using bridgy then their backfeed will still work?
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snarfed [jgmac1106]: you mean, a bridgy facebook app? no, the API behavior wouldn't change
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snarfed aaronpk: yes! i think so. still kills 99% of backfeed though
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snarfed ([jgmac1106] bridgy is already a facebook app that uses the API)
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[cleverdevil] Cool, still, thanks for the plug 🙂
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] it’s possible but would likely depend on the building block of private webmentions being figured out and actively adopted - more on that is likely #dev chat
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aaronpk yeah totally. I just mean it won't *completely* stop working, it will work just like jgmac described for small communities
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snarfed ah sure
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snarfed tell everyone you want FB backfeed from to sign up for bridgy 😂
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aaronpk hehe
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[jgmac1106] and every facebook community would want it. Communities would promote the app
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snarfed honestly though, i doubt i'd keep bridgy FB backfeed around if it only worked for bridgy users. too confusing. i'd get a constant flood of questions and complaints and bug reports
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aaronpk good point
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[jgmac1106] I think about towns and universities that worry about compliance issues on pseudo-official facebook pages. Want to join us>activate this app>They get a legal archive
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Zegnat Communities that would want FB backfeed for themselves will have to run their own FB app then
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snarfed Zegnat: fwiw i haven't heard from a single such community in >4 years of running bridgy FB backfeed
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snarfed oh sorry, >5y :P
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[jgmac1106] I don't think 98.2% of facebook users know what backfeeds mean
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snarfed yup
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Zegnat Was more a reply to [jgmac1106], snarfed :) I didn’t recall other communities either
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snarfed heh yeah sorry, didn't read enough backscroll
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snarfed also backfeed is a poor compliance tool. FB's archive download is arguably much better. (not perfect, but better)
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[jgmac1106] yeah I guess so. trying to keep the dream alive
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Zegnat If I understand the problem right, if say a university would want to an archive of likes they received from students, they would need to ask *all* students to signup for the same backfeed-FB-app. Any student that did not sign up, will not have their likes backfed.
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snarfed right
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[jgmac1106] Maybe if [chrisaldrich] can convert more newspapers bridgy could replace the facebook comment tool and they can encourage subscribers and visotrs to download bridgy
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Zegnat This is an interesting stance from FB. On one hand I can see where they are coming from. If you happen to sign up for RogueApp, RogueApp cannot also collect behavioral information about your friends unless those friends also sign up for RogueApp. On the other hand Facebook is hiding very simple analytics that you yourself can see (“who liked my last photo?”) from apps that you choose to use.
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[jgmac1106] yeah I read the terms and was like, "that's how it should be"
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mandy Hello, I'd like to create an RSVP to IndieWeb summit on the Slack group I manage (PDXWIT) to go out to several hundred women techs in Portland, but I need a quick tutorial? Can anyone help me?
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[jgmac1106] yipee!
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aaronpk hi mandy!
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mandy hi
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aaronpk The main registration page is here: https://2018.indieweb.org
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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mandy yeah, I just wanted to be more clever (the rsvp thing looked cool)
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aaronpk let's see, we should have a quick HTML snippet you can copy and paste and put somewhere for an RSVP. is that what you mean?
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mandy NP, I'll just do that :)
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mandy That might work in Slack
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aaronpk hm i'm not sure what you mean about the slack integration
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[jgmac1106] take link: https://2018.indieweb.org/ and @ mention everyone
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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[jgmac1106] You could include a cool like and say want to be snazzy, try to rsvp: https://indieweb.org/rsvp
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[Mandy_Honeyman] I got it. Thank you.
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[Mandy_Honeyman] exactly
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[jgmac1106] or spin up a bot super fast, could probably be done quickly in Dexter
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[jgmac1106] or Glitch
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[Mandy_Honeyman] lol - was so hoping someone had already done it 😄
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[jgmac1106] I can go ask in the botwiki group
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[Mandy_Honeyman] I'm just going to pass on the link. .... got to do other things too today 😄
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[Mandy_Honeyman] no problem thanks for answering my call
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[jgmac1106] exactly, so had to resist not going to try and build a bot
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[Mandy_Honeyman] 😄
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aaronpk indieweb RSVP template: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/c40a01bd4ffb8e62dcbb9a9e1bf0759d
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[jgmac1106] and [aaronpk] saves the day, you should come wathc how loqi plays in irc. It is so cool
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@jgmac1106 Hello #doo #digped #edtechchat #ds106 #clmooc #engchat #literacies @scsu #ctu friends I am going to be hosting weekly #IndieWeb Blogging 101 session every Wednesday night starting at 8:30 (or closest to bedtime for kids what ever comes last) for the… https://jgregorymcverry.com/3017-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1002244751234617344)
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Zegnat One year, maybe, IWS will display my RSVP too. Haha
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Here is the link to the Blogging 101 session: https://hangouts.google.com/call/pRm93gz9NbjSve1YAjD6AAEE Drop in the next 45 minutes if you have a basic question about blogging or getting started with a website. Stop by the last 15 minutes if you need #IndieWeb WordPress help. (https://jgregorymcverry.com/blogging101-1/) (twitter.com/_/status/1002256699204493312)
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jgmac1106 [chrisalrdich] gonna keep working unless someone drops in. Doubt anyone will. Got stupid number of assessment reports to write
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@direwolff ↩️ .@dsearls, we also need to start explaining to readers y it's impt that they support/pay for content fm sources they like. @stewart's "information wants to be free" trope has been misinterpreted 4 as long ol' guys like u & I've been in the space. Ads suck, so do freewheelers ;) (twitter.com/_/status/1002258063980572672)
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Zegnat is tempted to go learn about blogging from jgmac1106
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jgmac1106 do you need a new header or 7 tips to drive traffic to all the facebook likes?
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jgmac1106 my rules. Write for yourself, don’t worry about audience.
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Zegnat I need to know how I blog more, instead of getting stuck on programming challenges :P
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jgmac1106 blog about the challenges. and joys of solving. Pick something you don’t know how to do (better not programming) and go do it
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jgmac1106 content is king and while we don’t worry about audience size we always worry about audience members.
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jgmac1106 Reduce reader inferences with predictable text structure, define every term the first time you use it
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jgmac1106 more meaning is found in white space than words
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jgmac1106 and gif the the shit out of it
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Zegnat Hahaha
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Loqi hehe
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Zegnat *that* is the problem, my blogs so far have never supported image posts :P
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jgmac1106 no the problem is thinkign image posts and text posts are different things, posts are neither, they are multimodal
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jgmac1106 use a visual metaphor and the taft test. In your lede make some reference (so programming problem a key img cliche) talk about finding the “key” if it can past Taft test when done, you are good, make vall back to lede in your closing
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jmac Apropos of nothing, I was just thunderstruck that "It lets people @ your website!" is both the very best and the very worst way to succinctly describe Webmention.
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aaronpk googles "taft test"
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aaronpk tries the taft tool on the wiki: https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-05-31-11-51-51-Sz6J0pkpGc.jpg
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jgmac1106 funny I think [kevinmakrs] turned me on to it on some podcast years ago, use it all the time
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jgmac1106 though I am sensitive to keeping page sizes small if your audience is in low bandwidth areas
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TheLoneRanger Hey all
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jgmac1106 Hey Ranger
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@jgmac1106 @chrisaldrich Wouldn’t it be neat if @hypothesis was also a micropub client or used the API so I could PESOS each annotation to my blog as a quote post-kind? So cool @xolotl is coming coming to #indieweb summit. Know the markup doesn’t match but that… https://jgregorymcverry.com/3026-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1002285298053799937)
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@ChrisAldrich Reads, Listens, Watches, and Editable Webmention Types and Avatars in the #IndieWeb #WordPress Suite #podcasting #journalism https://boffosocko.com/2018/05/31/reads-listens-watches-and-editable-webmention-types-and-avatars-in-indieweb-wordpress-suite/ (twitter.com/_/status/1002287832017207297)
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sknebel heh, ask hypothesis when they'll implement the citation publishing spec they co-invented and allow you to point it at your server. I'll build a micropub bridge for that then :D
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@thorkon Wenn ich’s fichtig sehe, hat #Facebook gerade #Brid.gy den Garaus gemacht. #Bridgy #Webmention #Indieweb https://developers.facebook.com/support/bugs/721093238281702/?comment_id=723967974660895 (twitter.com/_/status/1002288143951855618)
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KartikPrabhu or one could use fragmentions
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jgmac1106 @kartikPrahbu willing to try fragmentions on html, but as academic it is a ton of webmentions
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jgmac1106 [sknebel] don’t know all the history, sounds long, but the folks I know there seem to share a belief in open web. I actually wish they didn’t force ciations into public domain, think that scares off folks but other than that they been cool to me
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jgmac1106 i meant ton of pdfs not webmentions….ugg time to close the day
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jgmac1106 baseball coaching time, 6 year old batting or adults blogging not sure what is harder
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jgmac1106 [kartikprahbu] anyone’s annotation page can have an rss feed but that’s it
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chrisaldrich jgmac1106: I added a lot of fragmention and fragmentioner support for WordPress following KartikPrabhu's model http://boffosocko.com/2018/01/23/fragmentions-for-better-highlighting-and-direct-references-the-web/
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] Fragmentions for Better Highlighting and Direct References on the Web
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chrisaldrich Eventually I'll get around to building out the medium-like in-line annotations Kartik did on his site...
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[cleverdevil] https://blog.nuzzel.com/integrate-important-industry-news-from-nuzzel-with-zapier/
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[cleverdevil] Great news!
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Loqi Integrate Important Industry News from Nuzzel into All Your Business Apps with Zapier
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[cleverdevil] I like Nuzzel, but would love to see it integrated into my Indie Reader, which I think I can now.
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[cleverdevil] I wonder if this is only for the "business" side though.
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[cleverdevil] Bah... its only for their "media intelligence" product... not for personal use. Nevermind!
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[cleverdevil] But, I just found https://emails2rss.appspot.com
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[cleverdevil] Super awesome, and now I have Nuzzel as a personalized RSS feed.
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snarfed appspot.com...sounds fishy
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snarfed 😂
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@xolotl ↩️ @ChrisAldrich @jgmac1106 @Hypothesis let's talk about it at the #indieweb summit! too bad @judell won't be there... (twitter.com/_/status/1002301299432435712)
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sknebel :D
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[cleverdevil] 😉
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[cleverdevil] I am going to put this to heavy use, I think.
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[cleverdevil] Great way to subscribe to a bunch of services that otherwise wouldn't show up in my Reader
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[chrisaldrich] [cleverdevil] I've been using a beta version of that Nuzzle product for a while and while nice, it's not the game changer I had hoped it would be. You really need a paid Nuzzle account and a paid Zapier account to make it do much and it's been okay, but not GREAT.
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, this email2rss service will give me everything I want, it turns out 🙂
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[chrisaldrich] rss++
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Loqi rss has 0 karma in this channel (-5 overall)
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[chrisaldrich] ha!
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[chrisaldrich] does 0 == dead?
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@bradenslen ↩️ Replied to Reads, Listens, Watches, and Editable Webmention Types and Avatars in the IndieWeb WordPress Suite by Chris Aldrich _( Chris Aldrich | BoffoSocko)_ > I’ve been meaning to write regular updates to highlight some of the useful changes in the… https://ramblinggit.com/2018/05/241/ (twitter.com/_/status/1002312867989917697)
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