#indieweb 2018-06-05

2018-06-05 UTC
KartikPrabhu, renem, snarfed, marclaporte1, cloud-maingo, ajft, eli_oat and leg joined the channel
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@jgmac1106 Hey if you are like me and like to #edtechafterdark from your own blog, here is a cool gif engine that has the right microformats for an #IndieWeb photo post: https://kapowski.schmarty.net/ (https://jgregorymcverry.com/3209-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1003825729178652677)
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@dkpmarketing Reads, Listens, Watches, and Editable Webmention Types and Avatars in the IndieWeb WordP... http://upflow.co/l/Qidv https://t.co/hDdNiGnJh2 (twitter.com/_/status/1003883429786734598)
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@swentel Glad to see the #IndieWeb module working on @royscholten 's #Drupal site. And apart from a small hiccup on an external service, the setup went relatively smooth! See the interaction on http://www.yoroy.com/2018/brick-enables-things :) So who's next? (twitter.com/_/status/1003921640693157890)
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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jgmac1106 Morning indieweb
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firmware i want to ask if can be made a system in wich ads are not used on websites but instead use mining 10% of CPU power of every visitor of a website, legally with a button to accept or not?
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jeremycherfas Asking would make a nice change. Lots of places just do it without permission.
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firmware coinhive as far i remember
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jeremycherfas Which I would never in a million years give.
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firmware is named
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cweiske there was an app which did this in the apple store
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cweiske they removed it after that was made public
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jgmac1106 And Google has put severe limits on this model in terms of advertising
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firmware that is why i want to make advertise to this method
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firmware because google
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firmware and centralised internet
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jgmac1106 becasue shady assholes hiding mining scripts everywhere
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petermolnar the sad difference is that in order to make money with crypto miner visitors, you'd need A LOT of visitors
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petermolnar whereas with ads, it can be different
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petermolnar I might suggest to take a look at self-hosted ads
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petermolnar the oldschool way
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jgmac1106 no its not , its the same with CPM, most bloggers make money on endorsements, speaking, and affiliate links
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firmware as a matter of fact you could make a decentralised internet based on barter exchange between users or something
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jgmac1106 but like [petermolnar] I would have no problem with that model if it was opt-in, I just never would, just like Peter. There are a few broswer start ups exploring this
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firmware or pay for video direct to the vloggers
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petermolnar firmware: we used to call that exchanging banners
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petermolnar it's been a while though :)
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jgmac1106 The land of crypto, where government doesn’t exist and we all live on free unicorn liver, thanks Charlie
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jgmac1106 I can pay for vloggers now through Patreon or Paypal
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petermolnar firmware: things you want to look into are ideas like flattr and it's history - hint: it doesn't work
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petermolnar the support platform that so far worked is Patreon
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petermolnar the other donation-like ideas are resulting in so little money that it's questionable to maintain them
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jgmac1106 https://www.salon.com/about/faq-what-happens-when-i-choose-to-suppress-ads-on-salon/
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jeremycherfas petermolnar Are you sure that flattr didn't work? I know it pivoted, and I am annoyed that it did, but in what sense did it not work? I know Apple stopped being able to flattr podcasts, which was a drag, but I've never seen an account of why they felt they had to pivot.
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petermolnar flattr was too complex and required too much setup from both sides imo
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petermolnar I count myself as a seasoned internet user, and even I found it overcomplicated
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petermolnar the initial flattr, that is
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jgmac1106 pivot= we ran out of money in chasing our current vertical so we will try a new approach. Nobody pivots when revenue is growing
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petermolnar the current, which recently announced that they will, in theory, delete the browsing history they gather - no, I'm staying away from that one
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jeremycherfas That's interesting. I -- far less seasoned than you -- found it relatively easy.
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jeremycherfas jgmac1106 Maybe so, but that's not a complete answer by any means.
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petermolnar jeremycherfas: did you ever receive any money through flattr?
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jeremycherfas Yes, I did. Amazingly enough. And I got it out when they announced their changes.
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jeremycherfas Flattr's secret weapon was that you could flattr people who weren't already signed up for flattr. And then you could let them know that they had unclaimed flattrs, which could encourage them to sign up and share the idea. For reasons I do not understand flattr itself never made much of that, and then, of course, they abandoned it. Dumb.
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jgmac1106 Flattr got bought buy AdBlock Plus, that was the problem, they have a different model
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firmware But nobody need aptreon or flattr
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jgmac1106 though if memory serves me correct they launched soome 2.0 version last year
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firmware What you need is a back account or a cryptocurrency wallet
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firmware bank account
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firmware every user must give a minimum of miney else new content isn't posted
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jgmac1106 and an audience, focus on content well before monetization, good content important to an audience is what really matters
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jeremycherfas Dear firmware. Please stop talking nonsense. I have a bank account, and I would like to have something like the old flattr or even the old Patreon.
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jgmac1106 [firmware] you might get some inkling that this isn’t the most “let’s get it all on the blockchain” firendly crowd
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firmware i said just noone need and intermediary person
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jgmac1106 have you seen indiepay.me, might do it through webmentions
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petermolnar firmware: from here, on my side of the display, it looks like you don't have much experience with the payment/donation/exchange systems that had bee around for a while. The fact is: you do need an intermediate person, even if it's crypto, given nobody accepts crypto in the store where you can buy bread.
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petermolnar the bank account note is decent, but it's very hard to sort international transfers out - this is where paypal, stripe, VISA, or someone similar comes in
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petermolnar international bank transfers also tend to cost a lost, so nobody is really using it
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jgmac1106 hey what about the guy who’s first pizza purchase would now be worth millions?
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jgmac1106 I XOOM money around the world all the time
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petermolnar yep, and since then nearly everyone stopped accepting btc or anything similar in the real world
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petermolnar a system that could cheaply transfer small - not micro - amounts of money across international debit cards could be a decent solution, but I'm unaware of any
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petermolnar the one I have on my site - monzo.me - is UK only, it asks for a UK post code
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jeremycherfas Just looking through all my previous posts about micro-payments and feeling even more depressed about the future of a web that actually rewards people make things you like.
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jeremycherfas Stripe also works well enough for small amounts. I'd love to see a fully-functioning version of the old tip-jar for amounts less than, say, a euro.
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petermolnar how simple is to set up stripe to accept small transactions these days?
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jeremycherfas Open Collective is an interesting model too.
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jeremycherfas I found it relatively easy, using off-the-shelf plugins. I expect if you were able to wrangle the API you could do even better.
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jgmac1106 I like what [mapkyca] does on his blog with linkt o pay pal, though I would set it to link to friends and family so it wouldn’t cost me $2.99 US to send him one Euro
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jgmac1106 https://www.tipsandtricks-hq.com/how-to-accept-donation-via-stripe-from-your-wordpress-site-easily-7811
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jgmac1106 I am sure the API would work anywhere
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jeremycherfas This was the last thing I wrote about it https://www.jeremycherfas.net/blog/getting-paid-for-content and that is still where my thinking remains.
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jeremycherfas jgmac1106 I don't understand your point about linking paypal to friends and family; could you please expand?
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jgmac1106 I do get paid to write content, I just chose a job and start businesses that require me to write a ton of content
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jgmac1106 yes, not sure if it is same in EU as USA, but here if you give to friends and family it is fee free but regular paypal cost a fee
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jeremycherfas I didn't know that.
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jeremycherfas I have a paypal option on my site, but so far nobody has used it. :(
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jgmac1106 affiliate links, endorsements, and speaking gigs are the only ways to truly monetize a blog at a minimal standard of living,
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jgmac1106 well off to start my day, bye all, be popping in and out I am sure
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jeremycherfas Not yet earned a penny through affiliate links, never been offered a product I would want to endorse, speaking gigs, well I do get the travel.
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firmware well i will see about that , but i think is better my way......gotta go....till then one last idea...how about everyone would pay in software they create?
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firmware software and content they create...like a digital barter
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firmware ?
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jeremycherfas No thanks.
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jgmac1106 I always dig kind trades and do some web work for friends for bater trades but that is small scale and hyper local, like build a carpenter a website and get a closet
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firmware so what?
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firmware it doesn't matter that you buy your car with money or with a object...it's just a choice
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firmware as long that you feel right
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firmware also could be done some kind of stock market of digital barter
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@LoudTechie Reads, Listens, Watches, and Editable Webmention Types and Avatars in the IndieWeb WordP... http://upflow.co/l/ip0v https://t.co/zEq9PloxbC (twitter.com/_/status/1003954019822456832)
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jgmac1106 the latest [gwg] and [chrisaldrich] podcast is missing the usual html5 video player download link on my mobile. Anyone know a way I can download it to my phone?
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GWG Which latest? Episode 5?
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jgmac1106 yeah
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jgmac1106 I just like to download on wifi to save data, cohh its a wordpress media uploader
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jgmac1106 I can get to here: https://david.shanske.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Indieweb5.mp3 but can’t figure it out a way to download
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jgmac1106 nvm forgot I was in FF not Chrome
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jgmac1106 Chrome has native download link
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aaronpk Nobody though to ask firmware if they have their own website?
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aaronpk What is welcoming?
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Loqi Welcoming is how we as a community welcome new members to our community https://indieweb.org/welcoming
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jeremycherfas Nope; didn't think to, not least because there was an immediate dive into a topic, rather than a Hi, so what is this thing about.
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aaronpk Just a reminder that the welcoming page is a good cheat sheet for how to get completely off topic questions like that back on track
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jeremycherfas Yup. Thanks.
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GWG jgmac1106: Episode 6 is ready to release, and it mentions you
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jgmac1106 that was what I wanted to listen to ping me when posted
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jgmac1106 but stoked for 5 as well
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GWG jgmac1106: Do you use a podcatcher?
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GWG Or manual download?
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jgmac1106 pocketcast
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GWG Did you load the feed into it?
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jgmac1106 but I just manually download yours
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jgmac1106 no
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GWG Do you want to?
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GWG Or you want manual?
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jgmac1106 yes what is the rss link
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GWG https://david.shanske.com/series/indieweb-podcast/feed/
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GWG The podcast is a deliberate WIP.
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GWG Both Chris and I host a feed with it
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GWG And I use it as a way to motivate me to enhance my audio posting support
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[jgmac1106] And episode 5 recorded on my birthday day not mother's day
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@jgmac1106 @thisissethsblog Welcome to @WordPress. The next step is to add all the #IndieWeb plugins so folks can interact with your content from their own blogs rather than just social media silos. Could you imagine everyone in http://Alt.mba connecting… https://jgregorymcverry.com/3257-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1003974213730959360)
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@fg_tech A movement is afoot. It is so appropriate that I found this thanks to @manton2’s http://micro.blog: https://cathieleblanc.com/blog/why-we-need-the-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/1003983676357607429)
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[filosofikode] Hi all :raised_hand:
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petermolnar hi [filosofikode]
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jeremycherfas Hi [filosofikode] and welcome.
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rhiaro Anyone have a comparison of IndieAuth and OpenID Connect handy? I can't find OpenID Connect on the wiki (only OpenID), it links out to wikipedia, which does not give me an indieweb perspective. From some cursory googling, it seems that OpenID Connect ~"specifies some things OAuth 2.0 left open" which is my understanding of what IndieAuth does too
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sknebel from my understanding: OpenID Connect core is just OAuth with "here's how you can fetch some attributes about the user", you still need to have an existing relationship between the identity provider and the app
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rhiaro I found "Dynamic Client Registration" as part of the OIDC spec though
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rhiaro https://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-registration-1_0.html
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sknebel yes, which is why I said core
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sknebel the "look up how to identify this user" is another extension, and based on webfinger
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sknebel and since it's extensions, you can't trust an OpenID Connect provider to actually implement it
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sknebel (e.g. Google implements OpenID connect, but doesn't do dynamic registration)
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rhiaro ohh I see
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sknebel IndieAuth doesn't have the "get details about the user" bit (OpenID Connect Core), but never needs registration
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sknebel + the spec is a lot simpler ;)
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sknebel and the discovery bit is always part of it, and works over URLs
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aaronpk Sounds like I need to make a new section to answer that question :-)
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aaronpk I suspect I'm gonna get that a lot
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rhiaro +1
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[kevinmarks] IndieAuth assumes that "get details about the user" is fetch their url and check for h-card?
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sknebel not really, no. especially not for non-public details
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sknebel (neither case is part of IndieAuth, and the latter one we afaik have no common mechanism at all)
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[kevinmarks] This is interesting re people tagging: Public service announcement: Stop! F*cking! Snitch tagging! - Mashable http://nzzl.us/4CUtDnW via @nuzzel
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@bradenslen Listening to: # An Indieweb Podcast: Episode 3 “Syndication”. Also on: * ### _Related_ (https://ramblinggit.com/2018/06/293/) (twitter.com/_/status/1004023022498533382)
iasai, nitot, tantek, [schmarty], electronicmaji, yoroy, aalmazan, snarfed and AngeloGladding joined the channel
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@learnlinksfeed Drafting #IndieWeb Principles for the Rest of Us https://ift.tt/2LqoVc9 (twitter.com/_/status/1004038812463296513)
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[colinwalker] [kevinmarks] Regardless of whether you should snitch tag or not for somewhere like Mashable to say that Twitter is just there to throw shade at other folks illustrates: 1 - how bad Twitter has gotten, and 2 - how bad Mashable itself has become
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@dalareo Drafting #IndieWeb Principles for the Rest of Us https://buff.ly/2xLqqzz (twitter.com/_/status/1004039671230238720)
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tantek jgmac1106: I like where you're going with most of these
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tantek jgmac1106++
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Loqi jgmac1106 has 9 karma in this channel (15 overall)
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/caseyjohnston/status/1003979687847219200
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@caseyjohnston tech companies are scaling back the addictive parts of their products bc they know we are all miserable and this close to throwing them all in the ocean https://theoutline.com/post/4810/apples-new-product-features-are-an-admission-of-guilt?zd=2&zi=xxhacba3 (twitter.com/_/status/1003979687847219200)
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tantek WTF is that animated wavy underline hover on links?!?
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tantek kevinmarks much better link in that article
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tantek push notifications << 2017-07-23 WIRED: [https://www.wired.com/story/turn-off-your-push-notifications/ Turn Off Your Push Notifications. All of Them]
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Loqi ok, I added "2017-07-23 WIRED: [https://www.wired.com/story/turn-off-your-push-notifications/ Turn Off Your Push Notifications. All of Them]" to the "See Also" section of /push_notification https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=48337&oldid=48336
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dgold does indieauth do openid2?
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aaronpk IndieAuth.com?
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aaronpk OpenID 2 is just as dead as OpenID 1. Actually probably more so since there were fewer implementations in the first place.
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dgold ah, okay
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dgold oh! it doesn't matter - gitea uses OpenID via Indieauth just fine.
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[wiobyrne] Hey all, at the Virtual HWC last week, there was some talk about having a virtual connection group for the event. If people are interested, I can set up a couple Hangouts to connect with people on-site..and possibly have a virtual presentation or two from off-site "attendees."
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Loqi [wiobyrne]: jeremycherfas left you a message 2 weeks ago: I wonder why your site at https://wiobyrne.com/better-visions-of-ourselves/ gives a 403 to webmentions?
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@wiobyrne Why We Need the #IndieWeb: A Short History (Cathie LeBlanc @cathieleblanc) #IndieWeb is an experimental answer to the corporate web of Facebook, Twitter, & so on. The IndieWeb movement wants to bring us back to a time when our… http://bit.ly/2LZdyZO (twitter.com/_/status/1004054905869328385)
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@bradenslen Listening: # An Indieweb Podcast: Episode 4 “Webmentions and Privacy”. Also on: * ### _Related_ (https://ramblinggit.com/2018/06/295/) (twitter.com/_/status/1004064192209530882)
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@cathieleblanc I've been working on my #IndieWeb site (still not done but getting closer!) and am especially excited about my new Notes page. Check it out: https://cathieleblanc.com/notes/ (twitter.com/_/status/1004080189771534336)
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@dariusdunlap http://Micro.blog Meetup at #WWDC! #indieweb https://t.co/JHe5VKFwyR (twitter.com/_/status/1004097440063148032)
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@bradenslen Listening: An IndieWeb Podcast: Episode 5 “Indieweb Summit and More”: https://ramblinggit.com/2018/06/listening-an-indieweb-podcast-episode-5-indieweb-summit-and-more/ (twitter.com/_/status/1004106101246308353)
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@learnlinksfeed Drafting #IndieWeb Principles for the Rest of Us https://ift.tt/2LqoVc9 (twitter.com/_/status/1004114195670020097)
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@grantcodes About to try and sync all my browser bookmarks to my #indieweb site. Let's see if this works... (twitter.com/_/status/1004116732519337986)
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@wiobyrne Possible cultural & technological futures of digital scholarship - My thoughts about #indieweb, open scholarship, publishing, & your digital identity. Friends/colleagues in academia/research/#highered...Let me know what you think. http://bit.ly/2JkUB2b (twitter.com/_/status/1004117918215532544)
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@fletcher0xFF Former http://1999.io user @jgphilpin explains why he likes the microblogging community Manton Reese has created at http://Micro.blog. #indieweb https://beyondbridges.net/2018/06/in-praise-of-micro-blog/ (twitter.com/_/status/1004121688374743040)
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