#indieweb 2018-07-05

2018-07-05 UTC
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tantek__ Facebook << 2018-07-02 Cory Doctorow: [http://locusmag.com/2018/07/cory-doctorow-zucks-empire-of-oily-rags/ Cory Doctorow: Zuck’s Empire of Oily Rags]
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-07-02 Cory Doctorow: [http://locusmag.com/2018/07/cory-doctorow-zucks-empire-of-oily-rags/ Cory Doctorow: Zuck’s Empire of Oily Rags]" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=49603&oldid=48342
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aaronpk Hm the micro.blog subdomain should work fine on indiewebring
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[manton] [miklb] As [dougbeal] said, Micro.blog has an iOS share extension for posting photos (to WordPress or Micropub).
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[manton] @billbennettnz I've tested Micro.blog subdomains (and custom domains) with IndieWeb Ring and it works automatically if you're using Micro.blog hosting. If you're hosting somewhere else, you can also use it with the appropriate rel tags described here: http://help.micro.blog/2017/web-site-verification/
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@00d4n1 ↩️ it's an http://indieweb.org-oriented site running on django! there's a link to its repo at the bottom of the page: https://git.00dani.me/00dani/lemoncurry c: (twitter.com/_/status/1014712016894713856)
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KartikPrabhu oops twitter link fail ^
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sknebel good morning indieweb
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snarfed hey sknebel
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dougbeal o/ sknebel
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tantek__ good morning sknebel
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sknebel good morning!
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Loqi rise and shine!
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sknebel currently trying to understand how things happen indiewebify.me
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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@kickscondor Curious about using http://Indieweb.xyz? Well, I've got more info for you. How to use subs: https://indieweb.xyz/howto/subs. How to bookmark: https://indieweb.xyz/howto/bookmark. (twitter.com/_/status/1014773310985416704)
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jgmac1106 Good morning all
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sknebel good morning
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@jgmac1106 Thanks for all the feedback on #IndieWeb WordPress. Like I said a few weeks ago we are collecting user stories as part of of a UX research project and i would love to capture your experience. Let me know. Sounds like you want a turn key approach ... https://is.gd/koVJcc (twitter.com/_/status/1014826236353351681)
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jgmac1106 !tell wiobryne I made a simple to-do page, isn’t private but isn’t publicized either: https://jgregorymcverry.com/to-do-list/ Will just use strikethrough as method to track what gets finished.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[wiobyrne] Good morning IndieWeb!!!
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sknebel good morning!
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jgmac1106 morning
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Loqi rise and shine!
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jmac ☕️
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@jgmac1106 @wordpressri I see there is no topic for the #RIWP August meetup. Be happy to come by and talk about #IndieWeb WordPress Also on: https://is.gd/dAdJvN (twitter.com/_/status/1014844976704950272)
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skippy hallo
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sknebel morning skippy!
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[jgmac1106] so GitLab moves to Google Cloud...because...marketing...can't be the exodus from microsoft and be hosted on Azure
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sknebel [jgmac1106]: they announced their plans to move to google cloud months before the github aquisition, so how exactly can they have done it for marketing reasons?
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sknebel (at that point, Google was probably still in talks to buy Github)
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skippy people should be running their own GitLab instances. or use BitBucket, if you want to get away from GitHub.
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jgmac1106 did they did not know. I just always got a chuckle at everyone leaving GitHub for GitLab. Atleast GitLab is open that they too will be looking for an exit event
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skippy but getting away from GitHub because Microsoft seems pretty reactionary. MS is not the same company today they were 10 years ago.
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skippy and hey, if you want the service GitHub provides, and you rely on it, maybe become a paying customer!
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skippy </rant>
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[jgarber] …and until recently, GitLab ran on Azure: https://about.gitlab.com/2018/06/25/moving-to-gcp/
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[jgmac1106] @skippy full agreement. Especially on the cultural shift at Microsoft
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skippy it's been slow and not always obvious, but there is a major change in attitude.
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skippy friendly reminder: the Ohio LinuxFest call for presentations is still open: https://ohiolinux.org/call-for-presentations/ I'd love to see some IndieWeb talks. :)
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Loqi Call for Presentations The 2018 Ohio LinuxFest is looking for presentations on Friday and Saturday, October 12 and 13, 2018 at the Hyatt Regency Columbus. Please submit your talk proposals by the deadline of July 31, 2018 to make sure you’ll be con...
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skippy Bridget Kromhout, of Microsoft, is one of our keynote speakers.
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[jgmac1106] Windows still prints money but especially since the IoT backbone and other open projects been change since new CEO
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[jgmac1106] Part of the reason I think we should be doing some outreach with WP #IndieWeb. MSFT has the full learning stack now, GitHub, Lynda, LinkedIn
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[jgmac1106] From where you go to learn about a project, store a project, host a project, brag about a project
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skippy risking a monoculture there with one entity driving so many different things.
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skippy speaking of: i wondered idly recently what video hosting solutions exist beyond YouTube? YT has that market locked up tight. How do indieweb folks host videos?
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Zegnat Vimeo. DailyMotion.
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Zegnat I know some YouTubers were trying out vid.me, but they shuttered because they couldn’t find enough advertisers to stay afloat.
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skippy my DigitalOcean droplet gives me 3TB of transfer a month. I feel like i could reasonably host my own videos.
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[jgmac1106] Peer Tube?
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[jgmac1106] But yeah my #IndieWeb videos just throwing up on my AWS account.
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Zegnat peertube is interesting, but I wonder how hard that would be to monetise for content creators
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sknebel Zegnat: that's basically always a point as soon as you leave Youtube. and even there, I see more and more people rely on ads baked into their videos, patreon, ... vs youtube's ads
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[jgmac1106] @skippy I also have no illusions that MSFT is more open because they are no longer the focal point of a monoculture.
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Zegnat Yep. That’s a good development, I feel, as it means the creators can actually step away from YT if they must.
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[jgmac1106] The majority of youtubers do not make their money from the ads, the CRM is garbage for most
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Zegnat Though I also see a lot of Patreon videos that are still hosted by YouTube. So diversivied income, but still rely on a single platform for actual video serving
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[jgmac1106] Most money affiliate, Patreon, and sponsorships. Even for the top folks Ad revenue not highest income source
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[wiobyrne] Thanks for the guidance about video content. I killed my hosting earlier for video (and audio) content for my podcast and tutorial. I'm most likely moving audio to Internet Archive from Soundcloud. Video is still all locked up in YouTube. But, I'd like a way to archive and not be siloed in.
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@bradenslen The IndieWeb, Discovery and Web Search: https://ramblinggit.com/2018/07/the-indieweb-discovery-and-web-search/ (twitter.com/_/status/1014873887514021888)
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@jgmac1106 These are great open source and DIY solutions. I think a little bit of what you are missing is ethos. #IndieWeb will never care about page rank. #IndieWeb will never care about SEO. #IndieWeb pretty much ignores search engines as we do our ... https://is.gd/kWbxLc (twitter.com/_/status/1014875323563937798)
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snarfed [jgmac1106] looks like the wms are showing up fine there: https://ramblinggit.com/2018/07/the-indieweb-discovery-and-web-search/
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skippy aaronpk++ for making Aperture publicly available! 7 days retention is more than enough for me. This is great!
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Loqi aaronpk has 557 karma in this channel (1665 overall)
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[jgmac1106] Thx [snarfed] he was having issues and wanted to make sure it was sorted
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skippy how does one subscribe to a feed of their Twitter notifications in Granary? Use a search for your own name?
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aaronpk that's what I do
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aaronpk my own streaming search script stopped working and that twitter API is really hard to debug
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skippy granary returns no results for a search term "@smerrill" but it does work without the @.
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aaronpk twitter search is really weird
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skippy indeed.
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skippy wish i could easily just get a feed of my mentions. surprised granary doesnt have an option for that
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skippy https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs/tweets/timelines/api-reference/get-statuses-mentions_timeline.html
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aaronpk sounds like a good feature request for granary :)
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skippy I'm on it!
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skippy https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/153
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Loqi [skpy] #153 Twitter User Mentions feed
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@wiobyrne ↩️ Also, if this post is the best example of @hypothes_is annotations baked into WordPress site, I'd like to see some #IndieWeb connections so the great discussion with @heatherstaines is pulled into the comments/mentions on the post. This would be just like tweets or other comments (twitter.com/_/status/1014894417902174208)
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[kevinmarks] https://internetingishard.com/
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jgmac1106_ [snarfed] It was just my webmentions not displaying on his site (one was a reply to his comment on my site, and the others not displaying) we are looking around
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skippy is there a way in Monocle to get a consolidated stream of all of my channels? Or do I have to go channel-by-channel to read new items?
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aaronpk there's no consolidated view
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skippy thanks. that makes this feature request i was about to file irrelevant. :)
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk if you don't like the model of channels then just make one channel and add everything to it
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skippy was going to ask for a page title update to reflect number of unread items. But that wold only work per-channel, not all unread items.
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skippy nah, I like the channels. It makes it easier for me to focus on the bits I care about.
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aaronpk yeah that's the idea :)
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skippy Monocle is great. Aperture is great. Thanks for making them available.
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skippy if I donate to you via Square, how much of my donation do you lose due to processing fees?
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aaronpk i'm in the camp of believing that the single-stream model that twitter and facebook brought us is partially responsible for the information overload and subsequent "need" for "algorithmic timelines". much better to focus on a better following list and choosing what to read when.
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skippy aaronpk: https://aaronparecki.com/tip/undefined/5 == "Not Found".
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Loqi Aaron Parecki
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snarfed skippy: https://opencollective.com/indieweb
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aaronpk oops. how'd you end up on '/undefined'
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aaronpk but yes what snarfed said :) i'd prefer a donation to the open collective
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skippy aaronpk: I clicked the "credit card pay now" link on your tip page
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aaronpk eep thx
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aaronpk huh do you have a JS blocker or somthing?
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skippy can i make one larger lump donation to opencollective, or is monthly the only way?
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skippy no JS blocker. Just uBlock and Privacy Badger
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aaronpk there's a one-time link on the opencollective page
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skippy looks like Privacy Badger is blocking m.stripe.network
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skippy and uBlock seems to be blocking images with https://q.stripe.com/?event=
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aaronpk weird
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@namedotcom That one time when we bought ice cream for @t of @mozilla to explain how to make the Internet a better place. #IndieWeb #POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/1014920939581001728)
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aaronpk I really enjoy that I can click "like" from monocle and that video ends up archived on my website
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skippy i dont "like" anything; but being able to obtain media from things in that way sounds super handy.
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jmac I can't remember... has the community reached out to the Mastodon guy to add MF2 metadata to toots and such? (He is on record of demurring webmention support in specific, IIRC?)
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aaronpk mastodon already has mf2 support
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aaronpk with tests even
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jmac Oh hang on, there's totally MF2 data here
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jmac yeah
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aaronpk i'm following a few ppl on mastodon that way. I just added their profile URLs to my reader
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aaronpk I even can get comments from mastodon people thanks to that mf2. ironically the way that works is I turn their "Inbox" notification into a webmention and process it like normal.
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jmac Well (a) I didn't know that and that's great, and (b) dangit my own parser seems to be coming up a little short here. (and (c) hooray more real-world test cases for me I guess)
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jmac cheers to the mastoverse
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skippy it would be awesome if Monocle had the inverse of what to suppress for a channel. That is, I could have one channel that suppresses reposts so that i see only original content from those people; and another channel with **only** reposts, for those people who are prolific reposters :)
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aaronpk hah I had not considered the "only repost" case. it supports only: photos, articles, checkins
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dgold aaronpk: hang about - you can get comments from mastodon onto your site?
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skippy i follow William Gibson in twitter because i like his books. he has the occassional original tweet; but retweets 100s of things every day, drowning out almost all other people i follow
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aaronpk dgold: yea! over the weekend I did a little experiment of implementing as little of ActivityPub as possible to get that working
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dgold cooool!
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dgold spent last weekend rewriting his Hugo Theme to use relative urls, and then setting up a dat: site properly
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dgold so now, if you visit my homesite in beaker browser, it offers you a P2P version
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aaronpk fancy
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dgold of course, there's an issue, in that it really doesn't like my theme switcher
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[kevinmarks] I have that too except I don't have https so beaker doesn't resolve the /well-known
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[cleverdevil] Any macOS Indiepaper users here?
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[cleverdevil] I have something I want people to test...
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taravancil [kevinmarks]: we recently published a spec for DNS shortnames via TXT records
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taravancil not implemented in beaker yet, but on the roadmap
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taravancil https://github.com/pfrazee/DEPs/blob/357dab212a3e0da3f675539b20fed42d811fab62/proposals/0005-dns.md#dns-txt-record
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dgold [cleverdevil]: me!
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dgold I'll test anything!
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[cleverdevil] 🙂
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[cleverdevil] [dgold] https://cleverdevil.io/s/1bZS3NQjvG.zip
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[cleverdevil] That adds a macOS universal "share sheet" for Indiepaper.
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[cleverdevil] You install it, launch it, and enter your configuration, and then its available everywhere-ish.
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[cleverdevil] LMK if it works for you!
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dgold [cleverdevil]++ for being such a clever devil
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Loqi cleverdevil has 56 karma in this channel (101 overall)
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[cleverdevil] I've written very little Swift and am not super familiar with AppKit these days, so its a best effort based upon my limited knowledge 😄
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dgold ok - I've filled in the values
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[cleverdevil] Once you've filled in the values, you can quit the app.
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dgold there's no modal dialog to hit return or anything
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dgold ah, kk
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[cleverdevil] Then, you can be in, say, Twitter, or in your Reader app, and right-click on a link and click "share"
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[cleverdevil] There is a "Send to Indiepaper" option.
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[cleverdevil] Also works in the "share" button in Safari, if that's your browser.
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[cleverdevil] (I definitely need to spruce it up with more in-app documentation and information).
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dgold jayzis that's brilliant!
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dgold yup, works perfick with safari
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dgold if you could do the same with a safari micropub extension, you'd be a God Bestride the Earth
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[cleverdevil] Haha.
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[cleverdevil] I think eventually [eddie] will be the man for that with a macOS Indigenous port.
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dgold I'm not sure it needs as much as Indigenous
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[cleverdevil] Oh definitely not. But, still, Indigenous is a much better starting point for a Micropub share experience on macOS.
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[cleverdevil] It already handles IndieAuth and Micropub.
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[cleverdevil] Fair.
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[eddie] That said, I can see a world in which people might not want Microsub but do want a simple menubar Micropub app or something. Not that [cleverdevil] wants to take that project on, but my goal is to hopefully before too long roll out IndieAuth and Micropub swift libraries from the Indigenous app so that other people can experiment with different types of apps within the Apple ecosystem
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[cleverdevil] And, no, I don't think I want to take that project on. At least, not at the moment 🙂
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[eddie] hehe 🙂
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skippy I want an easy way to right-click a file from Finder and upload it to my Micropub media endpoint.
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aaronpk someone just showed me that last week
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aaronpk an automator workflow
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aaronpk I was like :mindblown:
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skippy https://skippy.net/sharesh/ i made that ages ago.
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skippy https://github.com/skpy/share.sh#osx-automator
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Loqi [skpy] share.sh: simple script to share files to a server you control
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skippy could probably make the same thing with `shpub upload`...
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[cleverdevil] I'd like to see Dropshare add Micropub support 🙂
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[cleverdevil] But, in the meantime, I just use Dropshare to upload to a directory on my web server.
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[cleverdevil] Works fine.
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/21/7/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] @DropshareForMac I'm loving Dropshare! Could you add https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ support so I can easily upload to my website? Basically a file upload in a form with an access token.
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2017/05/24/5/micropub
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] @dropshareformac Micropub is a @w3c Recommendation now! I'd love to use Dropshare as a Media Endpoint https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#media-endpoint
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/DropshareForMac/status/701690450957230084
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@DropshareApps @aaronpk once the RFC is passed, we’ll gladly look into it. (twitter.com/_/status/701690450957230084)
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skippy [cleverdevil]: how does dropshare get it onto your server? not immediately seeing "use your own server" info on dropshare.cloud
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aaronpk dropshare has an SFTP option
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aaronpk I think maybe only in their non cloud thing
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aaronpk i'm kinda annoyed with the new cloudy thing they launched
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[cleverdevil] Yup, that's what I use. SFTP option.
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skippy oh i see now. interesting.
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skippy does that work for mobile as well?
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[cleverdevil] Before that I was using S3 and mapping a CNAME.
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[cleverdevil] Which also works great.
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, works universally.
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aaronpk i've never used dropshare mobile
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skippy thanks for the info on Dropshare. t'would be nice if it supported micropub media endpoints, but this will work for now!
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[cleverdevil] What is Indiepaper?
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Loqi Indiepaper is a "read later" service, in the spirit of Instapaper, for the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/Indiepaper
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[cleverdevil] Indiepaper << https://github.com/cleverdevil/Indiepaper-macOS
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Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/cleverdevil/Indiepaper-macOS" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Indiepaper https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=49639&oldid=49490
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Loqi [cleverdevil] Indiepaper-macOS: Adds a "Send to Indiepaper" sharing extension to macOS.
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[cleverdevil] For the curious, here is what the macOS Indiepaper experience looks like – https://cleverdevil.io/s/ZM4yR9ndtw.mp4
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk that's pretty neat
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[cleverdevil] 🙂
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aaronpk buildingblocks++
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Loqi buildingblocks has 1 karma in this channel (2 overall)
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[cleverdevil] Nice thing is it works pervasively. So, you can be in Tweetbot, and contextual-click on a URL, and then send it to Indiepaper.
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snarfed [cleverdevil]++
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Loqi cleverdevil has 57 karma in this channel (102 overall)
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aaronpk what's the piece that is fetching the page content? is that something in the mac app?
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[cleverdevil] Or, you can be in Monocle or Together within Safari, and contextually click a link, and send it to Indiepaper.
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[cleverdevil] Dope!
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[cleverdevil] Nope, that happens in the indiepaper service itself, which uses Mercury - https://mercury.postlight.com/web-parser/
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[cleverdevil] Pretty simple to use -> https://github.com/cleverdevil/indiepaper/blob/master/indiepaper/controllers/root.py#L49
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aaronpk wow
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dgold its awesome
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dgold and works perfectly
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dgold just needs a modal dialog :)
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[jgarber] cleverdevil++ for continuing to beat me to the punch on Indiepaper 🏆
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Loqi cleverdevil has 58 karma in this channel (103 overall)
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[cleverdevil] \o/
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[cleverdevil] It was fun hacking something together last night in Swift.
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skippy https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180701/23570540149/death-google-reader-rise-silos.shtml
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[manton] Yep.
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[manton] [cleverdevil] Great work on Indiepaper and the extension. This is really cool. Also, I smiled at your reference to IndieWeb Summit being "a few weeks ago". It does feel that way, but it was actually last week. 🙂
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[cleverdevil] 😄
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[cleverdevil] One idea I had, btw, was that Micro.blog could add a private Micropub endpoint that could be a target for Indiepaper.
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, time flies when you're traveling around too much for work... everything just blends together!
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[cleverdevil] Thanks!
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[cleverdevil] Meaning, your customers could add it as a feature (maybe a paid one?).
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[cleverdevil] Then, they'd have an RSS/JSON feed populated by Indiepaper.
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[cleverdevil] Just an idea 🙂
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[manton] It's a great idea. I've been wondering how I could use this too.
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[manton] Someone could create a new blog and target it with Indiepaper, but that's really overkill.
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[cleverdevil] Yup, I am thinking isolating it entirely to a feed would help.
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[cleverdevil] Then people could use whatever reader they want.
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[cleverdevil] Though, having an embedded reader in the Micro.blog clients would be smart.
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[manton] One question... Long term, do you intend to keep hosting indiepaper.cleverdevil.io or think that more people will host their own version? Looks like indiepaper.org is available too. 🙂
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[manton] And yeah, I could do something like give everyone a /micropub/indiepaper endpoint that just creates a read later feed for them.
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[jgarber] I _just so happen_ to own indiepaper.cc and indiepaper.app.
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[cleverdevil] Not a bad idea to move it to its own domain.
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[jgarber] …and since cleverdevil has gone and bested me, I’d be willing to transfer those domains if they’d be of use.
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[cleverdevil] I haven't done much in the way of branding/design on this stuff yet....
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[cleverdevil] Thanks for the offer [jgarber] 🙂
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KartikPrabhu step one of branding would be the URL ;)
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[cleverdevil] I might just snap up indiepaper.org
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[jgarber] If either of those domains would be of interest, drop me an email and we can sort it out: jason at sixtwothree.org
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KartikPrabhu indiepaper.app sounds nice, since it is an app
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KartikPrabhu org sounds funny
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[manton] The .com can be had for the low, low price of $2095, apparently.
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[cleverdevil] Cool, I'll think about it.
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KartikPrabhu lowl
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[cleverdevil] 🙂
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[cleverdevil] indiepaper.io is available.
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[cleverdevil] Its actually a service, not an app.
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[cleverdevil] So, I don't think .app makes sense.
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[manton] .io is nice for this.
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KartikPrabhu ok up to you :)
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[cleverdevil] I think so too.
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aaronpk it's quite literally an input/output service
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[manton] Branding aside, having a permanent URL for the default service would be useful.
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[manton] [aaronpk] Right!
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[cleverdevil] Yup, buying now.
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[cleverdevil] Then, I'll deploy it there and do redirects, hopefully.
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snarfed what's your domain count [cleverdevil]? :P
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[cleverdevil] Too many...
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[cleverdevil] Though, definitely lower than some in here 🙂
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KartikPrabhu haha! is anyone competing with aaronpk ?
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[cleverdevil] I probably have 25 domains?
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[cleverdevil] Maybe 30?
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[cleverdevil] Its gonna take a little bit to get everything moved over.
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[cleverdevil] I will likely also update the website for Indiepaper to make it a bit more approachable as well.
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[manton] [cleverdevil] I should just read the source, but is there anything special Indiepaper needs from the Micropub endpoint? I assume it sends MF2 JSON with a title and HTML content?
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[cleverdevil] I shall answer with the source: https://github.com/cleverdevil/indiepaper/blob/master/indiepaper/controllers/root.py#L62
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[cleverdevil] 🙂
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[cleverdevil] TL;DR you pretty much got it.
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[cleverdevil] It sends a MF2 JSON object of type h-entry with name, content (HTML), syndication, and URL.
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[cleverdevil] Oh, and author and published if I get them back from Mercury.
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[manton] Cool, thanks!
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[cleverdevil] Yup!
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[manton] And sorry, I should have taken this to -dev. No more questions for a little while. 🙂
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[cleverdevil] 😄
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