#indieweb 2018-08-09

2018-08-09 UTC
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[jgmac1106] you must get 1,000 offers for "let's meet for coffee," "I want to pick your brain..." need to find you a speaking gig somewhere in the city at the same time
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[kevinmarks] markdown << https://twitter.com/0xabad1dea/status/1027345216297152513?s=19
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@0xabad1dea markdown urls are the usb connectors of syntax (twitter.com/_/status/1027345216297152513)
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Loqi ok, I added "https://twitter.com/0xabad1dea/status/1027345216297152513?s=19" to the "See Also" section of /markdown https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=50764&oldid=45392
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@maetl ↩️ I want to do this too. Am also looking into P2P web protocols and ‘indieweb’ publishing. Just that there’s so many smart and brilliant people here, it’s hard to leave. (twitter.com/_/status/1027349038322970626)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Come play on the #IndieWeb. We need local news to save the local web and need the local web to save local news. (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5760-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1027354481846104065)
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@jgmac1106 @TaylorLorenz just read through your profile  You should hit up @IndieWebCamp NYC https://indieweb.org/2018/NYC. We need to think about how publishers can support themselves through the open web. (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5762-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1027356324412235776)
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@kjblank80 ↩️ @JenBriney That's the value of the @indieweb movement. Control your own data, but use social media just as a promotional tool. (twitter.com/_/status/1027359645650837504)
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@trav_stone BT https://xoxo.zone/@andybaio The indieweb is looking better and better every day. (twitter.com/_/status/1027378492873297920)
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@cathieleblanc Here's an example of the importance of using the #indieWeb in educational contexts...let's learn to build these wikispaces on our own web sites! (twitter.com/_/status/1027399348785750016)
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gRegorLove Woo https://xoxo.zone/@andybaio/100516101654649687
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Loqi [Andy Baio] @danbruno The moment XOXO is over, I'm diving back into blogging for a while.
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@SteveStreza Went to my first Homebrew Website Club tonight in Seattle, hope we can grow the Seattle one into a proper club! https://stevestreza.com/2018/08/08/homebrew-website-club/ (twitter.com/_/status/1027444598824624128)
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@netsensei ↩️ @jbaert Blogs: https://indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/1027456160536977408)
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Zegnat Hmm, has Pinboard abbandoned Delicious? It never seemed to have completed its server move
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Zegnat wishes the @Pinboard Twitter account was still about the bookmarking business
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/mikeal/status/1027285880258494464?s=19
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@mikeal The more I think about it, these platforms (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube) aren't "social" and they aren't agnostic "publishers" they are something I can only describe as "Network Effect Arbitrage Machines." [Thread] (twitter.com/_/status/1027285880258494464)
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[kevinmarks] https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/565736/
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jeremycherfas Hello IndieWeb
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@kevinmarks Are the blank pages because AMP adds a javascript dependency and insists that you set your opacity to zero in the inline css? @amphtml #Indieweb #jsdr https://medium.com/the-set-list/google-amp-a-70-drop-in-our-conversion-rate-35fe3cb69c59 (twitter.com/_/status/1027485667918528512)
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petermolnar [kevinmarks]: I never understood that part
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petermolnar I _think_ it's to avoid reflow with webfonts
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petermolnar so it's hidden until the render is done, and only appears after that
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petermolnar it's nice that it goes completely against the idea of text content though
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sknebel good morning!
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Zegnat Good morning!
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[jgmac1106] morning
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Loqi *yawn* ... /stretch/
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[kevinmarks] Browsers have got better at fonts behaviour since that though. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@font-face/font-display
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@jgmac1106 @goldiestandard good piece about the role of online education. You should mention places like #CCK08, #rhizo15, #ds106 online courses with distributed deliver system still growing strong in new permutations. Actually you just attend @IndieWebCamp in NYC… http://jgregorymcverry.com/5773-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1027508802931879936)
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@garrettc ↩️ I've been doing the same thing recently, getting involved more with Indieweb, wanting to have more control over me. I wrote a little bit about it here https://polytechnic.co.uk/blog/2018/03/js-oxford-indieweb-presentation (twitter.com/_/status/1027517675935883264)
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Zegnat Today I am studying Material Design and see what I can learn. Whole new world is opening up to me re: design.
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Zegnat Any other people doing IndieWeb projects today?
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat working on my grant application to try to bring in a bunch of money to support development
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Zegnat Awesome
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[jgmac1106] If I finish I am gonna go back to fixing rss feeds in 2016-IndieWeb
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[jgmac1106] then I am gonna plot how I can convince you to take my course template, wrap it up with a small app to create and issue webmention badges, and offer the package as open source folks can install on their own server...or a turnkey experience people can buy for $60 a year
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[jgmac1106] !tell gwg good luck and safe flight, next time fly standby on something with wifi
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106] oops @zegnat my inside voice came out again....bad conscience
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Zegnat Hahaha
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Loqi rofl
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@jgmac1106 We don’t need a “new” social media platform. We need to return to “old” web. Still interacting with Twitter and Mastodon from my own domain using #IndieWeb tools. In fact my domain is its own fediverse instance but I would be fine with just rss though… http://jgregorymcverry.com/5775-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1027523463295258625)
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[jgmac1106] ...actually what I really have to do is start hounding sponsorship for IWC NYC...took a bit of a break...securing venue ton of work...didn't want to hop right into begging solicitation....next week
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sknebel I'm fixing my website today
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@jgmac1106 @dancohen Are you going to be making @indiewebcamp NYC? https://indieweb.org/2018/NYC Gonna be a lot of #DoOO folks trying to figure out best way to roll this all out to students and awesome engineers and hackers helping us make sure it happens #DigPed… http://jgregorymcverry.com/5777-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1027525640113799170)
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[jgmac1106] awesome @sknebel I really like your site...everything in me wants to jump away from WordPress forever
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jmac_ Y'all, do I recall some discussion from a couple months ago that resulted in a best-practices draft for displaying webmentions that are not explicitly responses?
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sknebel the important bit is basically to not make them look like responses, since that can cause misunderstandings
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jmac_ indeed
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jmac_ I'd love to see some examples of people doing it better than I am right now. :)
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sknebel some don't show the content (e.g. "Mister X mentioned this in a post called "<title>"), or you can do an extract around the link
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sknebel you might be remembering the discussion around this: https://indieweb.org/comments#Difference_between_comments_and_mentions
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sknebel but not sure there is a collection of examples anywhere
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jmac_ Yes, I think that bit of wiki is what I was trying to recall
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jgmac1106 @jmac_ WordPress does this well, if someone replies to a post it shows up as a reply, if they quote or link it shows as a mention, if they post a read, listen or watch it displays as those
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jgmac1106 https://jgregorymcverry.com/2toponder-episode-one/
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jmac_ jgmac1106: Ah, great
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jgmac1106 this is my page of generic webmentions..people who just mention my domain: https://jgregorymcverry.com/about-me-2/
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Loqi [john] Hi Greg, Not sure how you want the image to display, but I had a quick pass at this: http://johnjohnston.info/blog/flickr-faves/
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jmac_ Oh, you facepile generic mentions
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jgmac1106 ….and i have no idea why that gets parsed on the page
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jgmac1106 yeah the blank facepiles are from other indieweb wordpress users…bc wordpress
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jmac_ good ol wordpress
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jmac_ More to the point you make a separate list out of non-reply mentions, which seems like good practice
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jmac_ I do that with likes & reposts, but have been mixing mentions and replies into one bag, and the former can start to look like non-sequiturs quite quickly
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jmac_ I have nerdier questions about this which I'm gonna take over to dev
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Implementing Webmention on a static website" https://deluvi.com/blog/webmention/
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jmac_ I always laugh when I see if a certain topic exists on the wiki, even if seems unlikely, and (a) it does, and also (b) it seems to have been added in anger. e.g. https://indieweb.org/title
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Anchakor https://betanews.com/2018/08/02/twitter-facebook-crossposts-stop/
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Anchakor "It's not just Twitter that is affected by the changes -- the likes of IFTTT have also been hit, as Facebook tries to prevent API abuse."
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@dancohen ↩️ Can’t make it but would like to hear about the outcomes/ideas. (Which I’d prefer to hear about over at http://social.dancohen.org (http://micro.blog) rather than Twitter, which I have more or less abandoned for the indieweb.) (twitter.com/_/status/1027534340832612353)
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petermolnar Zegnat: re indieweb projects, I started looking at adding webfinger support to my site, only to realize, that I've already done that when I added rewrite rules for .well-knowns for fed.brid.gy
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petermolnar I did fix my hreview markup, which, apparently was broken
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petermolnar I use it in 1 entry.
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petermolnar I don't really get the Facebook API changes though... pushing data _into_ facebook shouldn't be a security issue, just pulling it out, no?
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petermolnar wait... does instagram still work? if it does, I smell EU fines.
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Zegnat Instagram has never had a non-paid-business-API, right?
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Zegnat Completely different app model
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petermolnar not that; if instagram is the only app that can still cross-post to facebook, it means special privileges hurting the market, no?
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petermolnar instagram never had an api, that is a different topic
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@huffduffer An Indieweb Podcast: Episode 9 30 Days of Indieweb https://huffduffer.com/mrkrndvs/496103 (twitter.com/_/status/1027539864152158209)
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Zegnat Aah, like that. Interesting.
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DavidW Hello,
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DavidW I use the indy component TidFTPServer as FTPs server. Everything works with a self-signed certificate.
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DavidW But how can I use a public certificate, or where can I deposit a certificate chain?
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DavidW IdServerIOHandlerSSLOpenSSL->SSLOptions->RootCertFile?
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Zegnat DavidW, sadly, I have no idea what you mean.
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Zegnat I think that is something from The Indy Project (http://www.indyproject.org/)? This channel is IndieWeb (https://indieweb.org/).
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Zegnat But there are a lot of web developers here, so maybe someone still happens to know the answer
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DavidW To run an FTPs server you need 3 files, SSLOptions->KeyFile ( Private Key), SSLOptions->CertFile ( Public KEy ),SSLOptions->RootCertFile (the issuer of the certificate). In my case ( self-signed certificate ) only one CA position is entered in the RootCertFile. What if you want to use a certificate chain, otherwise the certificate cannot be verified?
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DavidW ahh ok, my fault wrong channel :-)
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Zegnat DavidW, if you are using the FTP server to host a website, you might still be in the right channel ;) We’re all about people running their own (indie) websites! So maybe stick around and check out indieweb.org :)
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Zegnat But as for FTP server software support, that’s a little more tricky
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DavidW ok, but thanks for the quick answer :-) have a a nice day..
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[kellan] Any pointers to folks doing work on protocols for group forming? Eg if I wanted to be able to tweet/blog to an explicit list of folks? Any pointers or clues welcome. Thank you
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Zegnat Hmm, good question [kellan]! There is a bit of a stub page at https://indieweb.org/audience
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Zegnat But there have been so little implementations of audiences in that way on the indieweb that I think the wiki is pretty barren around the concept.
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eli_oat what about a list aggregator thing like IndieNews? news.indieweb.org?
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[kevinmarks] Kellan, see also https://indieweb.org/private_posts
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[kevinmarks] audience << [[private_posts]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[private_posts]]" to the "See Also" section of /audience https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=50784&oldid=50783
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Zegnat audience << [[SharingWithCircles]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[SharingWithCircles]]" to the "See Also" section of /audience https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=50785&oldid=50784
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[kellan] Thank you, I’ll look at those
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@kevinmarks ↩️ @Mazzeo Come over to http://chat.indieweb.org and talk about what you want to build (twitter.com/_/status/1027568190853926912)
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@webology ↩️ Webmention looks like a pretty cool spec. I want to play with it more because it feels like a better approach than just having comments IMO. https://indieweb.org/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1027571888304738305)
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@tomwiththeweath the next austin homebrew website club meeting is 9/5 6:30pm (1st wednesday of the month) at mozart's coffee https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/1027583246081687552)
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[eddie] starts following some Mastodon users in Aperture
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[eddie] It’s great that it supports mf2. Allows me to start watching some people’s toots and decide if it’s worth it to add any ActivityPub integration only after I’ve seen if I have a desire to reply to people
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aaronpk Yea!
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[cleverdevil] In case folks here didn't see it, Daniel Jalkut has a 30% sale going on for MarsEdit 4 right now with the "BackToBlogging" coupon code.
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[cleverdevil] I just bought it myself to support a great indie developer who is working on an IndieWeb friendly app.
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[cleverdevil] (Now I want to build an XML-RPC <-> Micropub bridge!)
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[eddie] aaronpk started building one
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[eddie] http://xmlrpc.p3k.io
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[eddie] I don’t know if anyone has tested it with MarsEdit yet
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[cleverdevil] Ooh, shiny.
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[eddie] The only tricky thing I think I ran into is I *believe* Micro.blog prefers xml-rpc to Micropub? So I think when I added that to my homepage, it tried to authenticate me as Wordpress not as IndieAuth from the Micro.blog apps
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[cleverdevil] Trying it now.
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[eddie] But I never really started using the bridge so I just removed it rather than digging in more and/or mentioning it to manton
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, and it can't yet fetch the posts that already exist on my site, since that's not (yet) a feature of Micropub.
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[cleverdevil] Might just be best for me to implement a Known plugin to support XML-RPC.
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[cleverdevil] Or, better yet, to convince Daniel Jalkut to support Micropub 🙂
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[eddie] ohhh true true
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aaronpk I know he's thinking about it but needs the feature of being able to list posts
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[cleverdevil] So, really, *that* is where I should put my efforts if I want to help make that happen. Implementing that in Known once the mechanism is decided.
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[eddie] Yeah, that’s probably best effort because that opens up a lot of doors
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aaronpk we have a proposal for that extension in micropub, we just need more people to actually implement it
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[cleverdevil] Do you have a link to it?
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[cleverdevil] I'll put it on my todo list for Known.
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/Micropub-brainstorming#Query_for_post_list but i thought there was more somewhere else
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[eddie] strangely, there is no proposed query attribute for that section
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aaronpk huh yeah that's why i thought it was documented somewhere else
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[eddie] -> #dev
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[kiai] Hello #indieweb
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[kiai] Is anyone interested in helping out with a project for the domain kindlove.org? I want it to be a community of encouragement. I have too many pots on the stove already.
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[jgmac1106] [kiai] what is your goal?
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[kiai] unity? 🙂
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[kiai] I was thinking about the division that exists on the net and wanted to make a website that creates unity instead of division.
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[kiai] It would be a forum where people could write encouraging things or stories and the community can benefit from them.
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[kiai] Stack Exchange for the general public!
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[kiai] I don't want it to be a place where people vent or seek therapy for their emotional dysfunctions though. But it would be good if people could search "depression" and find a quote or story that would help them out of it.
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[jgmac1106] cool, somebody demoed a project called 'I am grateful" here where it people are encouraged to publish message for what they are grateful for
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[jgmac1106] I did find the latest Pew Report about how positive SM is for adolescents, specifically females, for finding mental health support
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[jgmac1106] you could just publish resources from your own blog that you think are good and share out using tags or categories people could follow through something like rss
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[jgmac1106] or do a version of indieweb.xyz focused on the topic
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[jgmac1106] ...but if you think the web needs a resource curating important topics the IndieWeb style is to become that resource from your own domain and encourage others to network together on the open web. For now you could just make an rss feed of great resources and throw them up on that domain
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[jgmac1106] [kiai] it was [quinnvinlove] who did the grateful project...wanted to make the introduction since you both have similar goals
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gRegorLove I'm wondering if anyone is generating newsletters from their site with something other than Mailchimp.
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aaronpk haha
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gRegorLove Just want to collect additional options, nothing against Mailchimp
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[jgmac1106] [gRegorLove] I was trying to think how indienews or indiexyz could be turned into a newsletter service
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Zegnat There is indieweb.xyz for the sort of community-written-blog-website, [kiai]
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[quinnvinlove] Oh hey [kiai] that sounds like a neat idea 😄
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[jgmac1106] be cool if you sign in with indielogin and have email in your hcard you subscribe to a weekly digest of X number of tags you click
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[quinnvinlove] I was thinking about wrapping it into a collection of other mental health mini-apps
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[jgmac1106] I still just dig rss. Never rocked the whole newsletter thing
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[jgmac1106] yeah [quinnvinlove], that PEW report was the first it aint all doom and gloom...facebook clearly a mental healh resource..while hurting general mental health...go figure
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[quinnvinlove] So I’d be willing to help with kindlove.org 😄
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[quinnvinlove] wow 😂
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[jgmac1106] [quinnvinlove] maybe [kiai] has the domain for an Indieweb corner for mental well-being
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[jgmac1106] jinx
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gRegorLove [jgmac1106] Same, but I want a method with the least friction for people who aren't using a feed reader, which is many.
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[jgmac1106] yep...and they won't have an h-card...so has to be sign up my email\
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[jgmac1106] I just use a weekly digest on my blog, always thought I could make a tag called "newsletter" and then only send out a weekly digest of articles with that tag
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Zegnat (Let me know when there is a mental-health microformat to add to my h-card.)
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[jgmac1106] I even forgot I have subscribers...till they all quit in droves when I started sending out 100's of post a week called (no title)
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[jgmac1106] p-summary
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[jgmac1106] p-note
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[jgmac1106] its a matter of does it define you or just a part of you
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[quinnvinlove] ^
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[jgmac1106] [quinnvinlove] for background @zegnat has the world's biggest h-card and is very honest and open as he treis to quantify himself
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Zegnat Yeah, I was half joking. On the other hand, I do list some things that could be seen as “mental state”. Like phobias.
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[jgmac1106] so p-summary and p-note were sort of a joke to say...we don't need your experimental properties..but then it got all meta..and was like wow that does say lot
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[jgmac1106] emoji based mood rings....there is a gimmick that could generate somebody a gajillion dollars
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[kiai] Hi. What's your project website? I'd like to see! 🙂
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[kiai] Thanks [jgmac1106]!
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[kiai] what is h-card
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Loqi h-card is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up people, organizations, and venues on web sites https://indieweb.org/h-card
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Zegnat [kiai] whos website?
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Zegnat [jgmac1106], some people have actually posted “mood” things
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Zegnat I think acegiak had a special mood meta data with their posts
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Zegnat s/their/her/
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[kiai] I thought I was starting a thread with [quinnvinlove]. Was asking about the grateful project. Hmm. Slack
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[jgmac1106] ooh yeah don't use threads
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[kiai] ok.
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Zegnat [kiai], aah, yeah, the IRC folks and chat logs will not see threads I’m afraid :(
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[jgmac1106] some people connect through irc and threads dont work
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[kiai] Ah. Thanks, guys.
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Zegnat (See also https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-08-09#bottom for how things look :) )
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[kiai] never liked IRC. oh well.
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[kiai] What's with the mental-health thing? (and how do i reply to a Zegnat webhook?) I'm working on my website today for my emotion regulation support practice.
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Zegnat Just treat the chat here like a single flow of text.
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Zegnat What is mood?
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Loqi mood is sometimes expressed explicitly in or about a post, by the post author https://indieweb.org/mood
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Zegnat Some people have tracked how they were feeling at times ^^^
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Zegnat I haven’t tracked mood/emotion. I do list phobias (https://vanderven.se/martijn/) and track attraction (https://vanderven.se/martijn/gender/)
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Loqi Martijn van der Ven
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Zegnat Lots of possibilities for tracking things!
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[eddie] I am planning on tracking my mood, but probably numerically
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[eddie] 0-5 type thing
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Zegnat [eddie], more like the Jawbone example on the wiki?
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@samnabi ↩️ First step: https://twitter.com/wrblogs/lists/wr-bloggers/members Next step: the newly-created @wrblogs account will post links from all of their RSS feeds Final step: A consolidated RSS feed / Email newsletter based on @wrblogs' twitter feed Elevating the #indieweb :) (twitter.com/_/status/1027624749327765505)
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[jgmac1106] see everyone wants an email newletter solution
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[kiai] I remember the days of MS Outlook. You could copy and paste html into the compose pane and Ouila! Newsletter.
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[eddie] Zegnat: yeah, more like Jawbone
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[quinnvinlove] http://I’mgratefulfor.xyz
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[quinnvinlove] 😬 whoops
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[quinnvinlove] imgratefulfor.xyz
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[quinnvinlove] Let me know if you have any comments/suggestions!
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KartikPrabhu I got " loan lenders <a href="https://cashnow.cars">direct lender installment loans</a> direct lender payday loans https://cashnow.cars - direct lender installment loans (2018-08-02 19:58:11)" which is ..... interesting ;)
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Zegnat I got "; SELECT * from table". Clearly people are playing.
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[eddie] Are those webmentions?
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KartikPrabhu probably form inputs
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gRegorLove Yeah, you can enter them on http://imgratefulfor.xyz/
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gRegorLove "I'm grateful for... Grateful Dead"
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[kiai] [gregorlove] Is today Jerry's anniversary? 😥
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[kiai] I just entered something.
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[kiai] There's a blank one in there.
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gRegorLove Heh, it's been in there for a while (not mine)
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ben_thatmustbeme i entered quite a few
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe
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ben_thatmustbeme not blank ones
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snarfed oh snap, twitter locked tantek's account
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snarfed huh, looks fine on https://twitter.com/t
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snarfed bridgy got this error: "To protect our users from spam and other malicious activity, this account is temporarily locked. Please log in to https://twitter.com/ to unlock your account."
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[jgmac1106] and it begins...this happened to me on SNAP, got a reply email asking me for explanation...never got a reply back. The end of Bridgy to Twitter draws closer
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aaronpk wow
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petermolnar whaat?
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[jgmac1106] I confess...the Dead reference is mine
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[quinnvinlove] Cleaned it up a little, I should probably add a regex check for black submissions 😄
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@cleverdevil ↩️ Nope, I stick to the #IndieWeb, where I own my content on my own website. Then, I syndicate out to great platforms like http://Micro.blog. (twitter.com/_/status/1027692845417656321)
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@agentultra ↩️ @cleverdevil Neat. Is mastadon-esque federated stuff not #IndieWeb? (twitter.com/_/status/1027697428428926981)
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@withknown It's time to make the switch to a #decentralized social web. #indieweb #activitypub (twitter.com/_/status/1027705567211487232)
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[tantek] But I wasn’t doing anything
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[tantek] In fact I was on a transatlantic flight!