#indieweb 2018-09-03

2018-09-03 UTC
KevinMarks, [eddie], AngeloGladding, IRCsum, camerongray_, renem, [keithjgrant], electronicmaji, iasai and wolftune joined the channel
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jeremycherfas !tell fyber Known has a Markdown plugin. Very indieweb out of the box.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jeremycherfas I use Grav but I found the data returned by that plugin too inconsistent, because sites are very inconsistent. Made display difficult.
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fyber Oof, already spent a while setting up Grav.
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Loqi fyber: jeremycherfas left you a message 27 minutes ago: Known has a Markdown plugin. Very indieweb out of the box.
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fyber Known seems... interesting.
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fyber The install guide says to use PHP 5.4, which I'm pretty sure was EOL a long time ago.
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gRegorLove Should work with 5.6 and 7.x
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fyber Honestly I just really don't like deploying PHP
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fyber All the good tools are "enterprise grade" and cost $$$/mo
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fyber I can be reasonably sure that node.js will work or that C++ will compile, but PHP is a minefield
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fyber -end short rant
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jeremycherfas Fyber The official Known instructions are, unfortunately, pretty much out of date.
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jeremycherfas I think Grav is a pretty good choice, and there are other people who have done good things with sending, receiving and displaying webmentions.
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jeremycherfas I use https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-webmentions/ to receive.
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petermolnar wow; php is a minefield compared to node.js, that's new
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jgmac1106 what is teacup?
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Loqi Teacup is a Micropub client for posting various types of food posts to any server supporting Micropub https://indieweb.org/Teacup
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@drewm ↩️ Why would you want to use a custom domain? If you stopped using @benotist in the future, all the existing links would point to URLs you control and maintain. A good balance between the ease of using a service and keeping ownership of your content #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1036562751039135745)
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cweiske petermolnar, in which way?
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[kevinmarks] Interesting, fyber. Known was built in PHP because that was what hosting companies offered by default - especially with wordpress in mind.
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[kevinmarks] Do generic hosting companies offer node now, or are you mostly thinking of amazon/google/azure?
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[kevinmarks] (I am doing something similar in a work contrect, because deploying as node from github automatically has better tooling)
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@jgmac1106 Still say the best way to protect the web is to ensure as many folks carve out their own #IndieWeb space and not rely on centralized platforms at all: http://thehill.com/opinion/cybersecurity/404780-turning-a-blind-eye-to-the-vulnerable-is-what-makes-a-truly-broken (http://jgregorymcverry.com/6406-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1036570617632501761)
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@jgmac1106 How would you answer this research question: Does the ability to check out a domain from the local library lead to an increase in local content on the web? #IndieWeb #literacies #analytics cc/ @michellejkiss @Moemkiss Be looking at 2 yr time (http://jgregorymcverry.com/6408-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1036578294852988930)
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@jgmac1106 I have a blind student in one my classes this semester. It involves publishing from a http://WordPress.com account and live coding in class. I may have to rely on your expertise. At least I get to learn accessibility and #IndieWeb standards. Excited (http://jgregorymcverry.com/6413-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1036584334680109056)
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petermolnar cweiske: it was /s, I read back yesterday
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Zegnat [kevinmarks] in my experience a lot of basic “starter” hosting will still not give you anything other than PHP. I’m thinking of basic but popular and well known ones (at least in Europe) like One.com and Strato. But even somewhat more commercially focussed (like Swedish Binero where I am at) only offer PHP and ASP.
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Zegnat I might still recommend those hosting providers for people who are getting started, but definitely means only things like WordPress and Known are available to them.
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sknebel Good morning indieweb
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Zegnat Good morning :)
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@Christo37433424 My first experience with IndieWeb: https://christophertomlinson.com/2018/09/03/my-first-experience-with-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/1036597159557251073)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Congrats on the hello #indieweb post. Stop by chat anytime you have an issue or just use the #IndieWeb hashtag and someone will see the ping. (http://jgregorymcverry.com/6422-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1036597954327527424)
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[jgmac1106] Who is MarcoZDE?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/User:Marcozehe.de
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Thank you this is a great read. We use JAWS and Dragon Dictate. I am going to the center for adaptive tech tomorrow to get feel for experience. Also lucky that #IndieWeb community includes some of the best specialist such as @MarcoZehe and @meganrush1024… http://jgregorymcverry.com/6424-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1036600542343180288)
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] you get a lot of flexibility and options on a shared host, could do more than just WP or Known
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Zegnat I just mentioned the two major PHP CMS that we usually refer to :)
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Zegnat But you won’t be running Ghost any time soon, which is entirely node
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[jgmac1106] I have a button that says launch node.js app
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Zegnat Oh interesting. None of the default shared hosting providers I have seen people go for offered that
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@jgmac1106 Working on my next #indieweb grant application. Started a sloppy copy on @glitch https://checkoutmydomain.glitch.me/ (http://jgregorymcverry.com/6427-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1036614667802759169)
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vilhalmer o/
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vilhalmer has anyone here used the caddy webserver?
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vilhalmer and if so, do you like it?
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KartikPrabhu what is caddy?
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Loqi Caddy is an HTTP/2 web server, built for designers, bloggers and developers, with a simple configuration and automatic TLS https://indieweb.org/Caddy
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[kevinmarks] silo-quits << https://sonniesedge.co.uk/posts/abandon-twitter
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Loqi ok, I added "https://sonniesedge.co.uk/posts/abandon-twitter" to the "See Also" section of /silo-quits https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=51454&oldid=51436
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Loqi It's time to say goodbye to Twitter
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aaronpk that's a really nice design of responses on that page
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[kevinmarks] This thread is worth reading https://twitter.com/rahaeli/status/1036304096280621063?s=19
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@rahaeli This is why I believe federated social networks are never going to work out long term. Someone who starts an instance doesn't know they're signing up for thousands of hours a year wading through the cloaca of the internet. That shit is *terrible* for you. https://twitter.com/andrewducker/status/1036188250124083200 (twitter.com/_/status/1036304096280621063)
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martijnvdven I think the response to the instance-admin-issue is that moderation tools should be in the user’s own hands: https://twitter.com/martijnvdven/status/1036381718767443968
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@martijnvdven @jdp23 Instead I think moderation tools on a per-user basis are required. You should decide what you see when you go online. You should decide who gets to interact with you. Maybe an evolved muting & blocking system like Twitter’s? Or are whitelists and vouches the future? (twitter.com/_/status/1036381718767443968)
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martijnvdven Woop, welcome back sknebel and Zegnat!
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[iambismark] Business opportunity to build something like https://www.mailroute.net/ for mastadon instances?
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aaronpk it's not actual spam that is the problem though
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[tantek] It’s not that different from “protection from virus”
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[tantek] Highly contagious “negativity virus” in particular, known to be bad for mental health
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fyber KevinMarks: No, I don't trust shared hosting. They try to upsell you as many years as possible, charge for SSL, and then go out of business. Every. Single. Time.
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fyber Getting a $2.50/mo VPS from Vultr and installing node is significantly easier.
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Dworf Allaһ iѕ doing
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[tantek] fyber FWIW I have had very reliable shared hosting through Empowering Media. A few times I’ve had excess bandwidth issues but it’s been quickly resolved. They’ve also been very good about account security. Been with them for ages (10+ years)
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[tantek] What is shared hosting?
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Loqi shared hosting is a particular level of webhosting service that includes FTP access with at least PHP and/or Perl CGI on a server where a bunch of people have accounts that share the same filesystem, and the same Apache/nginx process(es) https://indieweb.org/shared_hosting
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[tantek] Likely additional positive & reliable examples in there
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tantek__ good morning indieweb
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willnorris g'morning tantek__
[grantcodes], yoroy, eli_oat1, [manton], eli_oat, [tantek], KevinMarks, tantek__, ^O__O^, MarcoZDe, bergie, taravancil, ScalaWilliam_, mattl, willnorris, voxpelli, ancarda, emilbayes, leg and [jon] joined the channel; ^O__O^ left the channel
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[jon] [kevinmarks] that thread by Rahaeli is really great.
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tantek__ agreed.
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@manton2 Austin folks interested in the IndieWeb, blogging, http://Micro.blog, or building your own web site… The next Homebrew Website Club meetup is this Wendesday, 6:30pm at Mozart’s Coffee. Hope to see you there! (twitter.com/_/status/1036699118217949185)
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[kevinmarks] The draining feeling of ghastly images is spot on. I remember that from technorati
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tantek__ kevinmarks indeed :(. and before that (for me) at Microsoft when working on IE/Mac. Turned out ghastly websites often pushed the limits of javascript in the late 1990s. And people filed bugs accordingly. :(
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[kevinmarks] When Maynard was working on software mpeg, he had to have a windowless office because of the videos he got in bug reports
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miklb__ wow
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tantek__ yes we had a windowless "testing office" on the IE/Mac team for similar reasons for JS bugs on "cutting edge innovative use of technology" websites
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petermolnar so... if someone launches their own mastodon instance, and somebody wants to report that user on another instance, what happens?
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aaronpk I don't think it works that way? reports go to the instance admin
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aaronpk anyone can block/mute a user
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aaronpk not sure if there is a way for someone to suggest an instance admin block/mute/hide a remote user though...?
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petermolnar well there's the whole problem solved, right there: everyone needs their own instance. Oh. Wait. That's us ;)
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petermolnar humour aside, I think people completely misunderstand Mastodon
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sknebel Afaik it reports to both
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sknebel Local and remote
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Zegnat That’s what I was reading too, sknebel. You hit report. The report gets send to the admin of the instance you press report on (yours) and to the admin of the instance the post originates from (theirs)
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Zegnat Of course if you have your own instance, you could chose to ignore all reports coming in, as that would be people reporting you to yourself.
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aaronpk finds https://github.com/tootsuite/documentation/blob/master/Running-Mastodon/Administration-guide.md#moderating-content
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/Hadas_Gold/status/1036663705004589065
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@Hadas_Gold Twitter soon plans "to start showing users a picture of a tombstone in the place of a tweet that has been taken down as a way to signal that a user has violated a company policy” https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-twitters-long-slow-struggle-to-police-bad-actors-1535972402 (twitter.com/_/status/1036663705004589065)
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[kevinmarks] did someone say 'tombstoning' and this got turned into 'a picture of a tombstone'?
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Zegnat Hmm, if that happens and catches on the meaning we have been using for tombstone as something neutral could turn into a negative thing
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[kevinmarks] beyond satire https://twitter.com/paraicodonnell/status/1036296443877908480
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@paraicodonnell —Well, I’d say the most serious problem is— —Exactly. That's why we're adding a silent, watchful child who pursues you through an abandoned asylum on a tricycle. https://twitter.com/jack/status/1035633081862901760 (twitter.com/_/status/1036296443877908480)
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Zegnat 1 of the 2 comments on that tweet was marked as offensive content for me
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Zegnat For you too, [kevinmarks]?
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petermolnar > that tweet
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petermolnar which out of the 3?
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miklb__ lol
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aaronpk alright, i'm changing my stuff to not use ppl's "website" url in their twitter bio anymore, and instead going to show just their twitter URL
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aaronpk looking through my timeline, so many people put random things in their website field
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aaronpk one is a link to an amazon wishlist
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aaronpk a bitly link to an amazon book
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[kevinmarks] check for a rel=me link back to twitter?
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aaronpk a medium profile
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aaronpk that takes too much work
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[kevinmarks] medium profile could have been their website at one point
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[kevinmarks] and will have a rel=me back to twitter
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[kevinmarks] http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40aaronpk&html=&pretty=on
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Zegnat petermolnar the last tweet he linked :P
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aaronpk plus the author URL is the only thing that indicates this post came from twitter and not some other website and I think I like that
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Zegnat Well, off for the night, ta all!
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aaronpk good night!
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Loqi night night
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miklb__ aaronpk interesting conclusion. I had been contemplating same feature, currently just linking @name to twitter url
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miklb__ mostly because it was easy to do
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aaronpk I just launched the change in aperture, so we'll see how it looks in the next couple days
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aaronpk alright, new nicknames cache is live
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aaronpk oh funny, I forgot that I use my autolinker when rendering text from webmentions too, so those usernames get linked up to the person's primary domain too!
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