#indieweb 2018-09-04

2018-09-04 UTC
snarfed, AngeloGladding, IRCsum, eli_oat, iasai, renem and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Tombstoning https://mastodon.social/@matthewseiji/100664796786252024
#
Loqi [Matthewせいじ] Sorry tech bros https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/006/046/384/original/ad02e0a0b9ef1784.jpg
eli_oat1, electronicmaji and [tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek] Kevinmarks, that’s more appropriate for -chat IMO
#
[tantek] And aside, I personally would prefer to minimize any such kind of “mockery” culture/posts/etc here of individuals or specific groups of people in the main channel at least, no matter who is being targeted. -chat is better for such venting (optimistically presuming that’s what it is)
eli_oat2, eli_oat, BrAsS_mOnKeY, electronicmaji, eli_oat1, [kevinmarks] and Corvus`13 joined the channel
#
@aaronpk This is a good post (from 2015) and is equally relevant to Mastodon as it is Twitter http://natdudley.com/blog/twitter-ux-and-bullying/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1036818433034178561)
[eddie], [iambismark], bupkes and electronicmaji joined the channel
#
[eddie] So I’m saving articles to my Microsub channel using Indiepaper like crazy. The problem? I’m not reading almost any of them.
#
[eddie] I think the problem is two fold: right now none of my Microsub clients (including the one I built) filters a channel for only unread posts which means if I read the 5 most recent articles, they are still the first thing I see rather than the 50 unread beneath that
#
[eddie] And secondly, when I open my Microsub reader I’m greeted by 10 channels, all of them promising relatively short skimmable content and one “Saved” promising long-in-depth content
#
[eddie] So the impulse for the short skimmable wins out
eli_oat joined the channel
#
[eddie] I don’t know if that means I should use a different Microsub app that only opens one channel: my saved channel or that I need to build a Microsub to Kindle bridge so my long-form ends up on my Kindle?
#
[eddie] The tech isn’t really meant to be my focus although I’m using very dev keywords, sorry 🙂
#
[eddie] But my thought is more UX and principle in nature. It seems like my long form living alongside my short form is prohibitive to reading the long form
#
miklb__ that has been a dilemma for quite some time - browser bookmarks, pinboard, Instapaper, Safari Read Later, indiepaper
#
[eddie] See my choice is easy because I want control of the stuff I want to read because I know I can always funnel the same content into some other type of interface or UI because I own it
#
[eddie] But it’s interesting to think of those different interfaces, etc.
#
[eddie] Bookmarks vs Instapaper, etc
#
[eddie] I’ve never used Pinboard really so I’m not sure what that’s like
#
miklb__ pinboard is still a bare bones bookmarking service with a bookmarklet and browser extensions and an API
#
miklb__ but it has read/unread status option on saved bookmarks
Skaag7, danyao, cuibonobo[m], isgy[m], Kongaloosh, moredhel[m]1, Viaken[m], dgold, strk[m], wakingrufus[m] and yoroy joined the channel
#
[eddie] Ahh gotcha!
[kevinmarks], barpthewire, cweiske and [tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek] Eddie, good insight about short form vs long form reading and hazards of mixing them in UI
[Niklas], KevinMarks, [kevinmarks], eli_oat, grdryn, pindonga, nitot and catsup joined the channel
#
Zegnat Interesting read: https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/2/17805138/finding-silence-online-is-difficult-but-the-pursuit-is-worthwhile
jeremych_ joined the channel
#
jeremycherfas I'm using a combination of Pinboard and Paperback (a paid service) for long reads, which is great for reading but I have not yet started to work on bringing things back to my home site.
#
jeremycherfas In other news, good morning IndieWeb
eli_oat, gkbrk, [Niklas], [kevinmarks], [jgmac1106], eli_oat1, bupkes, cweiske, zv10 and barpthewire joined the channel
#
sknebel good morning indieweb
#
GWG Good meaning sknebel
barpthewire and eli_oat joined the channel
#
jeremycherfas Hello sknebel
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] For the DC crowd: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/reboot-mobilizing-democracy-dc-tickets-48227288117
barpthewire, eli_oat, snarfed, [keithjgrant], bupkes, yoroy, jjuran and KapiX joined the channel
#
aaronpk [eddie] I like the idea of making content in that channel show up on a kindle!
#
aaronpk I think I have the same problem you're describing
wolftune joined the channel
#
aaronpk at least on airplanes, I *can't* read the short stuff but if I had the content already offline on my kindle that would win out!
[kevinmarks] and hadvanx7 joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] that makes a lot of sense. Is there a way to do that apart form email?
#
aaronpk I think email is the only automatic way, otherwise you have to copy a file onto the kindle when it's plugged in via USB
[grantcodes] joined the channel
#
[grantcodes] Hmm you could actually use the notifier I made yesterday to send stuff to kindle via ifttt or something similar
#
[grantcodes] But it doesn't have different notifications per channel
#
aaronpk good point, I should hook that up with my version I wrote yesterday
#
aaronpk btw so far the push notifications have been fin
#
aaronpk fun
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] [grantcodes] figure out a way for me to get a birthday push notification if someone has a birthday in their hcard and I have rel=follow on my site.
#
[grantcodes] What is yours hooked to aaronpk?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "yours hooked to aaronpk" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "yours hooked to aaronpk is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
aaronpk I use pushover on ios
#
aaronpk -> -dev for more details
#
[grantcodes] [jgmac1106] good idea, but no chance for my tool 😛
yoroy and [tantek] joined the channel
#
jeremycherfas Instapaper used to make it really easy to push to Kindle. I stopped doing that partly because getting notes ourt of Kindle was so difficult and cumbersome.
eli_oat, [Serena], jackjamieson, KartikPrabhu, IRCsum, dougbeal|mb1, yoroy, kiith_ and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] Good morning indieweb
#
[chrisaldrich] Just ran across the Social Media Alternatives project at https://www.socialmediaalternatives.org/?page_id=2
#
[chrisaldrich] looks like they've got an Omeka install with screenshots of functionality across many social media alternatives for UX/UI examples.
#
[tantek] What is Omeka?
#
Loqi Omeka is a CMS built on a LAMP stack and designed for scholars, museums, libraries, archives, and enthusiasts to create complex narratives, share rich collections, research, exhibits, and digital projects https://indieweb.org/Omeka
cats1, [kevinmarks], eli_oat and snarfed joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] What is Lorea?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Lorea" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Lorea is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
[chrisaldrich] What is ZeroMe?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ZeroMe" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "ZeroMe is ____", a sentence describing the term)
eli_oat1, cweiske, yoroy, IRCsum, electronicmaji, yoroy_, snarfed, eli_oat, [jgmac1106], wolftune and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] https://www.wired.com/story/google-wants-to-kill-the-url
#
[cleverdevil] Not sure if this has been shared yet. Interesting.
#
[tantek] Is it hate on URL season again?
#
[cleverdevil] Not really sure I want Google shaping something as fundamental as this.
#
[cleverdevil] I genuinely wish Chrome wasn't such a dominant force 😕
#
aaronpk oh it really is a "wants to" article
#
aaronpk there is no plan
#
[tantek] [cleverdevil] do they reference: 1 any past attempts, 2 what is different today, 3 what is different in their plan?
#
[cleverdevil] We don't really know that.
#
[tantek] If not, then it’s ignorable
#
aaronpk "I don’t know what this will look like, because it’s an active discussion in the team right now," says Parisa Tabriz, director of engineering at Chrome. "But I do know that whatever we propose is going to be controversial."
#
[tantek] We need a “ignores history; didn’t read”
#
[cleverdevil] They reference "origin chip"
#
[cleverdevil] "Porter Felt says the group will be more ready to talk publicly about its ideas this fall or in the spring."
#
[cleverdevil] Probably fine to ignore until then.
#
[cleverdevil] I understand the viewpoint that URLs are cumbersome for the average person to understand.
#
[cleverdevil] I fail to see how you can implement a change without completely upending HTTP, which is a huge factor in what makes the web great.
#
[tantek] LMK when they have something as low friction to share in chat
#
[tantek] Cleverdevil, I reject that viewpoint based on how easily and frequently the average person shares URLs, including copy pasting them into txt, chat, social media
#
[cleverdevil] Well, its not binary.
#
[cleverdevil] Not "good" and "bad."
#
[tantek] So that “viewpoint” needs citation
#
[cleverdevil] Just "could be better."
hadvanx7 joined the channel
#
[tantek] I dispute the absolute characterization as “cumbersome”
#
[cleverdevil] Now, my version of that viewpoint is more related to tracking parameters and utm_ turds than anything else 🙂
hadvanx7 joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] Fair!
#
[jgmac1106] ...and what I was just writing: http://jgregorymcverry.com/6430-2/
hadvanx7 joined the channel
#
Loqi [Greg McVerry] It takes me way too much time to teach students how to share a url from their @wordpress blog and to a specific @wordpress post. Need a little UI love me thinks as the failure rate on first time share is well above 50%.
#
[tantek] Feels a bit like some researchers are #whiningontheyacht
#
[cleverdevil] Heh
#
[jgmac1106] in teaching offline reading we have this topic concept about print,,,the web shoudl be no different. We explicitly teach students from preK on "This is a title"
#
[jgmac1106] shocking that no one knows what a url is when they were never explicitly taught concepts of the web, "This is a url"
#
[tantek] [jgmac1106] how is “title” different from “name”?
#
[jgmac1106] wow a namespace throwback question....skippin gover
#
[tantek] NYT prefers “web address” to “URL”
#
[cleverdevil] A URL is an *address*, which means it needs to be specific, which sort of belies the notion that it can be simplified.
#
[cleverdevil] People are capable of understanding physical addresses.
#
[tantek] Cleverdevil there are better / worse URLs
#
[cleverdevil] So, they should be capable of understanding *web* addresses.
#
[cleverdevil] There definitely are.
#
[tantek] What is url design?
#
Loqi URL design is the practice of deliberately designing URLs, in particular, permalinks, typically for a better UX for everyone who creates, reads, and shares content https://indieweb.org/URL_design
#
[cleverdevil] If the conversation is "make nicer URLs" then fine.
#
[cleverdevil] If the conversation is "completely change URLs" I'm skeptical.
#
[jgmac1106] in Concepts about Print you teach Cover, title, author, this is a sentence, this is a word, etc an assessment developed by Marie Clay We read left to right...it is a massive predictor of later literary ability
#
[jgmac1106] That is the nature of UI design...instead of educating users, you just try to design around lack of knowledge
benwerd and eli_oat joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] I have always wanted to update this for the web: https://cdn.glitch.com/922d496f-efab-43f7-8936-954e4ce8b467%2FConcepts%20About%20Print%20Directions.pdf?1527531015955
jackjamieson[m] and kiith_ joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] sample of urls I get from students when I ask them to share...and most do say web address: https://wordpress.com/stats/day/edu305jfalc.wordpress.com or https://wordpress.com/plans/britt307.wordpress.com
#
[jgmac1106] but that is just crappy UI in the wordpress editor interface...it is very hard to know how to share the link intuitively for someone new to the web.
eli_oat, iasai and PFMurph joined the channel
#
@joeahand ↩️ @tmcw Ah, found the blog post with details! https://macwright.org/2017/12/11/indieweb-reading.html (twitter.com/_/status/1037039161826398208)
snarfed and eli_oat joined the channel
#
@tmcw ↩️ i'm sure someone's said it, but as much as i like the vibe and support the vision, the practical impact of a lot of indieweb tech is kinda scant - like there are no real microschema aggregators or anything (twitter.com/_/status/1037044896983445505)
eli_oat and snarfed joined the channel
#
Zegnat http://inessential.com/2018/09/04/_medium_is_deprecating_custom_domains_ht
#
snarfed [tantek]: just seeing posts from atom like that is usually doable. actually *federating* on though, eg interactions, is harder
#
@aaronpk ↩️ It's still early days for sure, but there are some fun things already: https://news.indieweb.org/en https://indieweb.xyz/en https://microcast.club https://indieweb.org/indiewebring Not to mention that everything I read online gets funneled through this tech: https://aaronparecki.com/2018/04/20/46/indieweb-reader-my-new-home-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1037047035461951488)
eli_oat1 and eli_oat joined the channel
#
@jgmac1106 ↩️ I love the way you are sharing what you read! Going to find my next few books. BTW a bunch of folks have gotten all the pieces flowing on Jekyll sites: https://indieweb.org/Jekyll (http://jgregorymcverry.com/6440-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1037051400092565506)
snarfed, jackjamieson, KartikPrabhu and leg joined the channel
#
@ChrisAldrich ↩️ @jgmac1106 @tmcw @joeahand Lots of other good examples and prior art at: https://indieweb.org/read (twitter.com/_/status/1037056572139220994)
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] I've caught up on about 2 weeks of #indieweb channel backlog. I'll be back in 2 weeks once I'm done reading the 45 new tabs I've got opened and start work on 10 new /itches...
#
[tantek] 😂😂
#
sknebel hah, I was away for only a long weekend and gave up on logs
#
[tantek] Would be great to see your summary [chrisaldrich]
#
[tantek] Like even just a blog post listing those 45 tabs and 10 itches
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] that 11th itch would be the end of me I'm afraid!
metbril, [metbril], [pfefferle], benwerd and [grantcodes] joined the channel
#
[grantcodes] I thought that replacing urls article was a bit sensationalist. There was not really much mention of them actually replacing urls, more about how they display the "identity" of the site
benwerd and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] URLs are fine, chrome needs work on UX isn't a headline
kaushalmodi, benwerd, yoroy and snarfed joined the channel
#
[tantek] It’s not the first “URLs are dead” or “replacing URLs” article
#
[tantek] Maybe it’s worth keeping a list of those over the years to refer to
snarfed, aalmazan and [davidmead] joined the channel
#
[davidmead] I seem to remember one of the original silos (aol, CompuServe) having a single word resolve to a URL. Maybe it was an MS thing in IE
#
[davidmead] didn’t catch on
#
aaronpk AOL keywords?
snarfed, eli_oat, electronicmaji, jackjamieson, kaushalmodi and BWBellairs25 joined the channel
#
BWBellairs25 Ꭺllah is ԁoing
hadvanx7, [jgmac1106] and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] !tell jeremycherfas any special/interesting features about Paperback that you find helpful?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[eddie] !tell aaronpk I have investigated a Kindle compatible file output from Node.js in the past as part of a plane to have a Microsub to Kindle service but haven’t gotten any further than doing a prototype html to Kindle file conversion and then opening the file in Kindle to test
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[eddie] So still a ways to go before anything testable, and I haven’t opened that project in several months lol
benwerd, [kevinmarks], eli_oat1 and snarfed joined the channel
#
@HongPong ↩️ If you really want to get into decentralized publishing tech issues check http://indieweb.org and the ActivityPub protocol which #mastodon and #peertube both implemented #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1037099608978149377)
jackjamieson joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Tweet https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/1037071996956405760?s=19
#
@kevinmarks The actual headline should be "URLs are doing fine, but Chrome has some UX problems to work on." but that wouldn't get links. Or origin chips. https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/1037060750840406016 (twitter.com/_/status/1037071996956405760)
benwerd, eli_oat, snarfed, electronicmaji, jackjamieson, [tantek], slvr, [aaronpk] and eli_oat1 joined the channel
#
@kongaloosh test tweet for #indieweb in_reply_to responses using http://bri.gy (twitter.com/_/status/1037112732003135489)
jdp, renem, eli_oat and KartikPrabhu joined the channel