#indieweb 2018-12-13

2018-12-13 UTC
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[eddie]
Depends. A person tag can be virtual, but most of mine are in person
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[jgmac1106]
is there xfn for checkin posts for with can you just <data class="p-category" value="with">h-card</
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[tantek]
no need. I think we decided that a person-tag on a check-in means the person is "in" the check-in IRL, just like a person-tag on a photo means the person is "in" the photo
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[jgmac1106]
I am submitting a letter of intent to apply for Mozilla's ethics in Computer Science challenge. Going to convert an unused planetarium into VR recording studio
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[jgmac1106]
Comps I students will have to write and complete case studies... What ethical situations would you include?
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[jgmac1106]
The timing of these friction and frictionless stories seems almost coordinated, sure it's the zeitgeist but it's everywhere
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kisik21
The syndication to Twitter works so smoothly that sometimes I don
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kisik21
don't even notice the magic
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kisik21
one of my replies was syndicated to Twitter so smoothly I haven't even noticed anything
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kisik21
bridgy is the best thing that ever existed
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[tantek]
bridgy++
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Loqi
bridgy has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (6 in all channels)
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petermolnar
sounds like a .well-known is needed for person-tag /me ducks and yes, it's sarcasm
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kisik21
I think I need micropub IRC bot
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kisik21
that would post notes over Micropub via IRC
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kisik21
aaronpk: you use an IRC bot to deliver notifications, I think you know some stuff about IRC... Is my idea - an IRC->micropub bridge - sane enough?
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kisik21
also considering telegram->micropub bot by the way
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[jgmac1106]
Better than a well-actually [petermolnar_]
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[jgmac1106]
@kisik21 are you in the chatbot wki slack group? Botwiki.org
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Loqi
[aaronpk] TikTokBot: TikTokBot is a bot framework for Slack and IRC.
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[jgmac1106]
[sknebel] why would someone syndicate from IRC to Tim Tok? I love both but don't see use case.
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[jgmac1106]
Tik Tok? Stupid autocorrect
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[jgmac1106]
Nvm just common name
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Zegnat
TikTok (app) was first released September 2016, first commit to TikTokBot was June 2016. Obviously the latter has claims to the name ;)
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[jgmac1106]
Ha ha... Been loving TikTok... It's the new stupid things white people do Vine like app
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jeremycherfas
Good morning, again, IndieWeb
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Zegnat
Hi jeremycherfas :)
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Zegnat
[jgmac1106], I’ve only learned about TikTok last week
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jeremycherfas
After a week of intense work-for-hire I'm hoping to carve out some IndieWeb time this afternoon to look again at presenting geodata on my site.
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GWG
Ah, geodata. What are you presenting?
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jeremycherfas
Yup. See you later in #dev, most probably.
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jeremycherfas
I have routes, from trails.io and want to see whether I can add place markers tied to photos.
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jeremycherfas
I'm also interested in trying to see whether I can make use of aaronpk's Quartz.DB to store geo files.
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GWG
I just borrowed aaronpk's method of location lookup by airport code
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GWG
My site does reverse geocoding, I want to add geocoding
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jeremycherfas
I'm happier to decide where I am myself.
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GWG
Not sure what you mean
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GWG
Some people want to key in the name of the location, some will use the coordinates
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jgmac1106
check out how Known handles location, the reverse look up works well…with better than 3g connection
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jgmac1106
mihgt be able to steal inspirarion @gwg
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jeremycherfas
I'm less interested in checkins than in recording my perambulations, and I know where those are.
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jgmac1106
as a display option? Like show me all my posts on my trip to Prague?
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jeremycherfas
That could come later. But I'm really not all that interested in where a ost was made, and if a post is about a place, that's enough. If I write about Prague, that's what is salient, not where I wrote it. For me.
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GWG
jgmac1106, my reverse lookup works fine,. though I am tweaking the return format
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GWG
jeremycherfas, I like showing maps
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jeremycherfas
I'm by no means against it.
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GWG
Right now, my location offering is fragmented a bit because I added things on over time. I was going to clean it up a bit.
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[jgmac1106]
<data class="p-category" value ="50.0755° N, 14.4378° E">Prague</data>??
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GWG
Especially the pieces I borrowed from aaronpk. Like the timezone calculation code. I need to make it fit in more nearly
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GWG
To prepare for the next thing
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[jgmac1106]
Trip pagination is an interesting idea... Not that I could do it but I love that Google Photos does it for me automatically
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GWG
jgmac1106, I do it with a tag
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[jgmac1106]
Yeah that would work. Simple best
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GWG
Hmm...idea. Auto tag
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[jgmac1106]
If geodata different than house... Auto tag until you return. That becomes trip series
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GWG
The issue is the variance in geodata
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[jgmac1106]
The start and stop of a trip would be geofenced... I lose geodata reliability when I dip below 4g
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GWG
jgmac1106, I would want to identify it better
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GWG
For example, in Berlin the response said I was in Mitte, East Berlin, etc
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GWG
How to unify that
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[jgmac1106]
Yeah I am talking about a trip series not just location data. Any post between Time A wehn I depart place X to Time B when I return the place X
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GWG
Exactly. I have to think about how that might work
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[jgmac1106]
My only issue is seeing how much location data gets sucked up and sold by other apps. Would have to keep my phone pretty whitelisted
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[jgmac1106]
Like empty of apps and accept Google gets it all... Or switch to G Suite for good location security
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GWG
jgmac1106, how would you feel if it were you hoovering it up?
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GWG
You could run aaronpk's Compass or similar
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[jgmac1106]
Better. But having location services is on is all it really takes
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[jgmac1106]
It's not me having it. That is easy to solve. Google knows when I blow my nose.... It's everyone else having it if you leave location services on
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GWG
Understood
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[jgmac1106]
Wondering what he can do with his old hiking GPS toys......
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GWG
But for now, I will worry about me
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[jgmac1106]
Your Google history has it all. You could Pesos photos... manually from Google Maps.
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kisik21
good morning IndieWeb
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kisik21
was my blog down recently? I think I had an electricity outage
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Loqi
good morning!
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kisik21
just returned from college and found my PC offline
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jgmac1106
ooh no, good luck
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jgmac1106
I have the worse internet when we have weather where I live
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jgmac1106
[gwg] a single paid g-suite account on Android with no other apps but google apps would be a pretty location secure phone.
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GWG
jgmac1106, I already have the data from Google
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jgmac1106
or then whitelisted IndieWeb and other trusted apps from there
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jgmac1106
I know, I am just thinking outloud of getting data in Google in the most secure no one else gets it way
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jgmac1106
mean out of Google
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GWG
I just downloaded it from Takeout
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jgmac1106
I understand, I am talking about this: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html?module=inline, I mean doing Takeout without offering up the Buffet
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jgmac1106
Google’s G Suite provides strong privacy protection. If they offered a family I would buy it tomorrow, you think permissions are easy on the big apps….try kids apps….it’s predatory design
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jgmac1106
This is why the FourSquare and Swarm round made so much sense. You could rename those apps, ‘Tracking Priviledge” that data worth a ton of money
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jgmac1106
….but I have old GPS devices….can I somehow get data off of those, on to the phone, and on to website…..way inaccurate though…mine are old
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "Blog Engines and Indieweb Controlling Upstream" https://ramblinggit.com/2018/12/blog-engines-and-indieweb-controlling-upstream/
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jgmac1106
[schmarty] this is why IndieWeb rings need webmention badges: https://twitter.com/jgmac1106/status/1073204747224711169
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@jgmac1106
I love love using h-feed. Don't get me wrong RSS is awesome... For consuming.. No fun when writing. Now with h-feed I stick a few classes and HTML and done. It's in your reader. RSS I have to redo the post in an xml feed or teach myself some automation… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/12/13/i-love-love-using-h-feed-dont-get
(twitter.com/_/status/1073204747224711169)
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Loqi
tonz has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (6 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106]
for being so generous with my class; I love seeing your webmentions hit our comment feed: http://edu106class.networkedlearningcollaborative.com/feeds.html
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[jgmac1106]
[tantek] did you originally post the Mozilla Responsibility in CS Challenge here: https://jgmac1106homepage.glitch.me/mozillaethicschallenge.html I can't remember if you invited people to apply
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chrisaldrich
good morning indieweb
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chrisaldrich
Facebook has cut down on their API access breaking brid.gy backfeeding, but it still does notifications via email. I'm curious if anyone had thought of building something that does webmention via email.
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chrisaldrich
Then one could create a switchboard to take incoming email and create backfeed.
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chrisaldrich
An awfully circuitous route, but it might work. Something similar to GWG's Postmatic email tool and this comment via Jon Udell: https://blog.jonudell.net/2018/12/02/wheres-my-net-dashboard/#comment-495949
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Loqi
Jon Udell
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GWG
chrisaldrich, Postmatic charges a lot. I'm grandfathered in as I was a beta user
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GWG
I was thinking of reproducing the functionality using the mailgun api
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chrisaldrich
GWG: I think that's why I never started using it... the money for the functionality didn't seem that valuable to me. I'd rather donate it to your efforts instead.... :)
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chrisaldrich
come to think of it, where is your payment page?
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GWG
chrisaldrich, email is not a task I want, but using someone else's API...
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GWG
chrisaldrich, tantek told me that I should get one at Austin
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GWG
chrisaldrich, what is the next event you think we both might attend
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GWG
I have something for you
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sknebel
zapier or ifttt might be able to do e-mail to X
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[tantek]
[jgmac1106] don’t think I posted that moz challenge here
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jgmac1106
darn….
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jgmac1106
I guess I did…was going to use it as a loose “invite” to apply,
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jgmac1106
got the idea for the blockchain and energy case study in ethics from the video last night
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chrisaldrich
GWG: I'm going to try to attend at least 2 IWC's next year... and there's one potential NYC event I may go to in early 2019.
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chrisaldrich
GWG: we should also record something this week if you have time. Would be worth talking about WP 5.0 and it's effects for those who aren't following all the threads.
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GWG
Tonight?
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[tantek]
Re attending IWC -> # meta
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chrisaldrich
I could probably pull off tonight... would it let us make the newsletter for Friday afternoon.
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[tantek]
We do need something for today’s IW Challenge
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[tantek]
A classic GWG [chrisaldrich] podcast would be great!
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[eddie]
I'm guessing they would be releasing the podcast tomorrow, but I could be wrong
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[eddie]
I wonder, how long does the turn around time take for your podcasts GWG and chrisaldrich?
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chrisaldrich
[eddie] It's all down to GWG's genius in editing and post production. I can't claim any credit on the hardest part of getting it out.
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chrisaldrich
GWG++ incidentally for recent changes to his homepage!
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Loqi
GWG has 27 karma in this channel over the last year (156 in all channels)
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GWG
I just post them live. 10 minutes
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Loqi
[packbat, keeping warm] I'm not sure how many people actually used the feature, but regular-Firefox just nuked the Live Bookmarks feed aggregation thing and left me without my main feed reader. Does anyone have recommendations for a separate feed reader software? I'm lookin...
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jgmac1106
how long does it take to hit publish….
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[kevinmarks]
Would my unmung changes to improve mastodon atom to h-feed conversion count for today?
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jgmac1106
helps a ton of people, well documented, seems to fit crtieria
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[kevinmarks]
I can write a post
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snarfed
kisik21: re your site's downtime, consider something like https://www.pingdom.com/ , good service with a free tier
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snarfed
chrisaldrich: FB backfeed via email is intriguing! are you familiar with it? do the emails have the complete comment contents? if they do, it's almost certainly doable. any interest in investigating more? i'd happily consider building it!
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swentel
is there more data in the atom feed than the h-feed itself ?
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Loqi
[IndieWeb.org] To earn the chat-name badge you had to Join the indieweb.org wiki and add your name to chat-names. Greg McVerry earned this badge as evidenced by [1]
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snarfed
[jgmac1106]++ whoa
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Loqi
[jgmac1106] has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (89 in all channels)
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aaronpk
hah wow
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snarfed
wow https://www.instagram.com/accounts/access_tool/ is pretty interesting. i expect GDPR-inspired.
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[jgmac1106]
yeah but it would be too much to have one page per badge, could I nest an h-entry in an h-entry so I could make a recipients section?
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[jgmac1106]
that would be a dev answer though
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jgmac1106
snarfed they did note at the data portability section in NYC that Instagram was definining comments as beloning to the comment poster and it doesn’t come with the access….wonder if still true
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snarfed
yup, that's what FB did too, which killed backfeed
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snarfed
instagram'
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snarfed
er, instagram's API is entirely closed now anyway, so it's academic for them, but FB's is still open
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aaronpk
"ads interests" is interesting
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aaronpk
instagram thinks i am interested in kittens. accurate.
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[cleverdevil]
Not sure how long it’ll last, but I’m enjoying it while I can 😀
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[cleverdevil]
I’ve been using the private Instagram API for about a month and a half now to generate an h-feed of my timeline that I subscribe to in Aperture.
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jgmac1106
wonder what will last loner the API or people’s tolerance to feed facebook’s bottom line.
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[cleverdevil]
I don’t post to Instagram anymore. Haven’t for years. I just still want to follow some people. That said, if they get wise to my trickery, I’ll likely just delete my account.
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jgmac1106
…ahhh that is brilliant
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jgmac1106
like robin hooding your connections
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snarfed
[cleverdevil]: hey, remind me why not instagram-atom/granary? totally ok, just curious. was it that you only wanted to see some of your followers, not all of them?
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[cleverdevil]
I had a reason...... but I can’t remember 😀
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swentel
wasn't it because you added a lot of granary instagram urls in aperture ? I remember something like that :)
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snarfed
right, for reading only a subset of followers
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snarfed
good feature request for instagram-atom
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[kevinmarks]
Photos aren't in the h-feed now on mastodon (missing a u-photo, not in content) but they are in the atom feed as enclosures
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[kevinmarks]
I made unmung parse the enclosures and the mastodon specific rel=avatar" links
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[jgmac1106]
!tell chrisalrich let me know if you get a wemention badge from the wiki
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106]
!tell chrisaldrich let me know if you get a webmention badge from the wiki
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
chrisaldrich: [jgmac1106] left you a message 4 minutes ago: let me know if you get a webmention badge from the wiki
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Loqi
[IndieWeb.org] To earn the chat-name badge you had to Join the indieweb.org wiki and add your name to chat-names. Recipients Greg McVerry earned this badge as evidenced by [1] Chris Aldrich earned this badge as evidenced by [2]
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chrisaldrich
sadly no actual photo version of the badge though... 😭
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jgmac1106
yeah, and you wouldn’t want each recipient, each issuance needs to be an h-entry
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chrisaldrich
I also had to change it from a mention to a "reply" within WordPress to display something besides a facepiled blank avatar
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jgmac1106
or something…but closer
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jgmac1106
so that is cool
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chrisaldrich
it's a start...
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jgmac1106
I didn’t get the image to dsipaly either, created a badges page and added it
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Zegnat
2019 will be the year of the dynamic h-card. Clearly I need to let people put stickers and badges on me.
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jgmac1106
could be, if we are all using some form of indiauth to loginto our playgrounds
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Zegnat
Not sure why one would require the other
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alexmingoia
Is there any interest in a combined reading/blogging app? Imagine Twitter or Mastodon as the UI, and the API exposing a microsub/micropub/webmention/indieauth endpoint. Hosted or self-hosted.
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jgmac1106
[alexmingoia] that is kinda what we all do
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jgmac1106
so welcome as many sandboxes as possible
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jgmac1106
Most of us are set up so our websites are our combined reading/blogging app
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aaronpk
that sounds useful, but only build it if you will use it yourself :)
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aaronpk
jgmac1106: "most" really?
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alexmingoia
What software fits that bill? micro.blog has no reader interface.
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aaronpk
afaik very few people have a reading experience built into their website
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aaronpk
micro.blog does that
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snarfed
also yarns, jackjamieson and maybe GWG
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aaronpk
if you log in and go to micro.blog you see everyone you're following
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snarfed
but yeah not many
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alexmingoia
It does? When I signed up I didn't see a way to type in aaronparecki.com and have it follow you.
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alexmingoia
How do I follow people on micro.blog?
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aaronpk
you can only follow other micro.blog users
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alexmingoia
Ah, well that doesn't fit the bill at all.
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alexmingoia
That's a silo.
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jgmac1106
[tonz] does pretty well with his wordpress and activitypub/reader stuff as well
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aaronpk
it's a hybrid but yes it's not what you're describing exactly
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aaronpk
but importantly it is a combined reading/writing experience
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alexmingoia
Right now, to get setup, I need to find a microsub server, a microsub app, a micropub app, and a blog software that supports microformats and micropub
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jgmac1106
yes, modular by design
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snarfed
tantek has consistently advocated for unified reading/writing interfaces like this, maybe largely due to the success of social network silos that do it
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aaronpk
yep, and a lot of that is because people have strong preferences around various aspects of that, so you can put the pieces together to create your own ideal experience
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snarfed
the rest of us probably don't feel quite as strongly, and are ok with separate readers and writers
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snarfed
and honestly i think having them separate for now has really helped us iterate faster on both sides
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aaronpk
i definitely do think some people will prefer a single combined thing, but it's great that there are options and they can all still work together
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jgmac1106
I am using all the tools [aaronpk] and [snarfed] build and they are sperate, but the experience feels very unified, when I move between dekstop, phone, my CMS
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alexmingoia
What CMS do you use?
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Loqi
[Amelia. Cult leader.] Reasons to join mastodon:- No ‘influencers’- Chronological timeline- New mates- Accessibility features - CW etiquette - Without the pressure of trying to please an audience via an algorithm to go viral, your shit-posting skills blossom into beaut...
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Zegnat
I wouldn’t put my posting in my reading. But I am weird like that.
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[kevinmarks]
woodwind provided it first RIP
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snarfed
replying, liking, reposting, rsvping etc are all valuable and useful in a reader. writing original posts, maybe less so
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[jgmac1106]
right now I am experimenting with a few flat pages https://jgmac1106homepage.glitch.me and doing everythign else on Known https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com
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[kevinmarks]
you could add a new post field at the top the way twitter/fb do though
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aaronpk
Known was going to build in a reader at one point which would have made it the closest to a fully self-contained system
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Zegnat
snarfed, I agree, I have just noticed those interactions aren’t a priority to me.
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[jgmac1106]
I am migrating from WordPress....just waiting for classes to end bc everyone follows me there...but using tools built and supported by other community members I get a pretty seamless experience
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snarfed
understood
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aaronpk
[kevinmarks]: monocle has that already but i still find myself not using it as much as just going to quill
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[jgmac1106]
[aaronpk] most of the code is still there
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[kevinmarks]
mastodon having it on the left is less obvious
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[jgmac1106]
yeah I connect my Known to mastodon, through micro.blog.
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snarfed
also the single biggest lesson learned from google reader was probably that people want to manage their reading in a number of different, incompatible ways, and it's hard or impossible to serve all of them in a single app
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[kevinmarks]
ah, monocle doesn't work with my micropub, so I haven't seen that. I need to build a micropub proxy so it works with the known version
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[kevinmarks]
I'm not arguing against that, but several of the microsub clients are very fussy about you having all the things
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snarfed
oh wow micropub => micropub bridge sounds kinda awful
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aaronpk
lol plz no just fix known
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[kevinmarks]
It's hosted known so I need Ben to do that. installing my own known is more work.
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[kevinmarks]
also Known has abandoned POSSE, so my itch is re-enabling that
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[kevinmarks]
my known still works with quill, just not monocle etc
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aaronpk
[kevinmarks]: have you at least filed an issue on Known describing what's wrong?
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aaronpk
so that ben knows what he needs to fix?
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[kevinmarks]
I think he just needs to update to head, as others are using known with monocle
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aaronpk
alexmingoia: anyway as for whether a single unified reading/writing project would be useful, the real question is whether you would find it useful yourself!
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[jgmac1106]
[kevinmarks] by abandoning POSSE isn't in core, you just add the bridgy and twitter plugin
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aaronpk
if the answer is yes, then that's great, and probably others will find it useful as well
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[jgmac1106]
I did have to change my htaccess file [kevinmarks] for it to work
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[kevinmarks]
I am on the Known equivalent of wordpress.com (it was dogfooding at the time)
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[jgmac1106]
yeah...I was in between you as I had all the paid Convoy integration
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[jgmac1106]
the Known to Known export doesn't work either
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[jgmac1106]
I still say the micropub migration tool....that is what the world needs
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[kevinmarks]
spiderpig to micropub gateway
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[jgmac1106]
I just think Simpsons, have no idea what you just said there
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[kevinmarks]
what is spiderpig?
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Loqi
Spiderpig is a web crawler for archiving a website as static HTML files https://indieweb.org/Spiderpig
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[jgmac1106]
just wrote this a grant application deliverable: Integrated reading and writing environment for teacher and the students.
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[kevinmarks]
glitch.com on train wifi is not good
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[jgmac1106]
train wifi is not good....well this side of the pond
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[kevinmarks]
trying tethered to my phone but I think we're in a tunnel
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Zegnat
Tunnels suck. I got a few on my commute
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Zegnat
Does make me want to make websites offline-capable
iasai, snarfed, tbbrown, [matpacker], [tantek] and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
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[kevinmarks]
Well I have micropub with indieauth.com auth, though that is just email now
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[kevinmarks]
So I need to do my own auth endpoint I suppose
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kisik21
heeey, we have badges! I want a badge, how can I get a badge?!
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kisik21
[jgmac1106]: how did you get a badge?!
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jgmac1106
Who is kisisk21?
chrisaldrich joined the channel
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chrisaldrich
What are badges?
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chrisaldrich
What are buttons?
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kisik21
ahem
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Loqi
A badge (AKA achievement) is a visual indicator of completing some sort of accomplishment, usually associated with completing specific tasks within a system that is frequently recognized as "achievement unlocked", or "you unlocked the xyz badge!" https://indieweb.org/badges
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kisik21
who is kisik21
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Loqi
A trans-person and a clueless amateur coder. Doesn't like her look and uses an anime-styled avatar instead https://indieweb.org/User:Fireburn.ru
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kisik21
I am in chatnames, jgmac1106
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chrisaldrich
kisik21 there are some fun little old school buttons on that page ^^
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chrisaldrich
jgmac1106, did you finish off the button sending piece?
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chrisaldrich
er.. badge I meant....
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kisik21
chrisaldrich: I know, just no place to insert them because my layout doesn't have a footer!
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kisik21
(it's actually half-baked for infinite scroll stuff, I just haven't done it yet
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kisik21
(and I don't think I'll do it)
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chrisaldrich
Is that a design feature or flaw? ;)
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kisik21
chrisaldrich: haven't decided on it yet!
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kisik21
by the way, chrisaldrich, here's a question: why all of your likes come through your Twitter account instead of directly from your website?
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[jgmac1106]
check your webmentions @kisik21
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kisik21
[jgmac1106]: nothing for now!
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kisik21
aaany second now...
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kisik21
I'm still depending on webmention.io for this stuff
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jgmac1106
your endpoint says: The webmention is currently being processed
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chrisaldrich
kisik21 I vary my likes depending on their value to me and for ease of sending. Some originate from Twitter and then get PESOSd others are from my own site and then POSSEd... depends on my mood I suppose.
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chrisaldrich
sometimes it depends on which reader I'm using too.
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[jgmac1106]
it is quite hacky, but website to website pin, button, badge, credential, is doable
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kisik21
[jgmac1106]: let's say I've got a webmention. Now what?
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kisik21
do I need to show it somewhere?
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[jgmac1106]
does Bridgy Trump your webmention [chrisaldrich] or should @kisik21 get two
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kisik21
[jgmac1106]: chrisaldrich: I usually get only one and it's clearly from Twitter
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[jgmac1106]
@kisik21 many people make a page for their generic webmentions boffosocko.com/mentions
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chrisaldrich
aaronpk was talking with a few earlier today in #meta(?) about programattically weeding out additional syndicated webmentions.
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[jgmac1106]
for this little badging experiment I made a page called badges on my site and sent the u-reply-of to there
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chrisaldrich
I suppose I most often PESOS likes from Twitter and typically keep copies of them on my back end and don't publish them publicly on my own site.
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[jgmac1106]
but you will need to figure out how you will want to display webmentions directly to your url and not a post
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chrisaldrich
More often I use twitter likes as bookmarks and I keep those on my site for reading later.
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chrisaldrich
Hobbling off to a meeting. Be back later this evening...
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mblaney
alexmingoia my website works the way you've described. you're welcome to log in and try it: https://unicyclic.com
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