#indieweb 2019-01-07

2019-01-07 UTC
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dckc any opinions on web components around here? one of the things that seemed cool about vuepress is that it uses web components
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dckc does some searching... finds mostly positive opinions
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dckc some concerns too.
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dckc wishes to go to https://indieweb.org/2019/Austin
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GWG You should come
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GWG I will be there
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GWG Not a selling point though
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Loqi yea
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dckc Loqi, who is GWG?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/User:David.shanske.com
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GWG See, not a selling point
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dckc well, it looks like you do some interesting stuff. Don't sell yourself short. And you're traveling across the country for the event?
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GWG Only halfway
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dckc 40,000 pinboard bookmarks... you may be more of a closet librarian than I am!
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GWG I have an MLS actually.
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GWG In my closet
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GWG I just keep accumulating things to read
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dckc how can I tell how many I have? https://pinboard.in/u:connolly/
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dckc I primarily use diigo; love the excerpt thing
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GWG I am trying to build my own
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dckc https://www.diigo.com/user/dckc-madmode
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GWG 1988
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GWG It says it on the page
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dckc diigo gripes at me that I have over 2000 all the time
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GWG What's your website?
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GWG Who is dckc?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/User:Www.madmode.com
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dckc yeah; that one
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GWG I always forget handles
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dckc I wouldn't expect you to remember
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dckc 44 austin bookmarks going back to 2011 https://www.diigo.com/user/dckc-madmode/austin (probably migrated from delicous)
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GWG I have had own my bookmarks on there for entirely too long
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dckc some of those austin bookmarks are still good! http://www.torgo.com/blog/2007/03/browser-panel-at-sxsw.html
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dckc 2006.sxsw.com has gone poof :-/
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sl007 Also wanted to draw attention to the fact that the accomodation at https://indieweb.org/2019/Vlissingen is pretty fine and *sponsored* (everything is for free).
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[Rose] I wish it wasn't Mon-Fri. Taking a whole week off work isn't doable for me.
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jacky IIRC with summits; everything's livestreamed (if possible)
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jacky oh this is in Norway(?)
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[Rose] I mean that Vlissingen is Mon-Fri
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[Vincent] Morning Indieweb
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[Rose] Good morning
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Loqi good morning!
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[Vincent] Morning Rose
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Loqi jeremycherfas: metbril left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: Thanks. I have not switch from WordPress but a working on that. If you have any suggestions, please leave those in the wiki? https://indieweb.org/Grav
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jeremycherfas Morning, once again, IndieWeb. Back from travels. Happy New Year all.
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jeremycherfas !tell cweiske Is search down
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske yes,
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Loqi cweiske: snarfed left you a message on 2018-11-26 at 3:49am UTC: i made a simple google custom search with the >2300 indieweb sites in indie map. seems to work pretty well! https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=001473925626342383772:izm-5gxypp4
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Loqi cweiske: jeremycherfas left you a message 4 minutes ago: Is search down
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cweiske I moved servers and did not reactivate it yet
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jeremycherfas OK. Cool.
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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Zegnat Looks like I missed a lot of talk about graphs and tracking personal stuff
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Zegnat really likes his weight graph
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[eddie] really likes your weight graph too
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[eddie] is super jealous
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Zegnat Hahaha
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Loqi Zegnat: lol
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Zegnat Having the data in the first place is half the work
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[eddie] Yeah definitely. I have a WiFi scale (workings) so thankfully I’ve got the data available and able to be retrieved when I’m ready to do something with it
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[eddie] So that’s nice because I have historical data back to 2015
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[Rose] I dislike the data in my weight graph (FitBit scales), but that's me :P
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[Rose] (I'm not sure I'd want to publicly post this data, but if I can automate getting data out of Apple Health then I can automate getting it into Day One I'm sure!)
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[smerrill] top o’ the morning, Indieweb.
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[eddie] Yeah I’m not sure how much of my health data I’ll make public
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[eddie] Potentially like latest snapshots but not historical? I’m not sure, but I want to create a nice interface for it when I’m logged in
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[davidmead] morning all - anyone have a Goodreads plugin for Known? Or just a way to syndicate?
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[Rose] I'd be interested in a way to syndicate! I'm sure it must be possible somehow.
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sknebel what is goodreads?
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Loqi Goodreads is a silo for keeping track of books, reviews, and reading progress https://indieweb.org/Goodreads
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jeremycherfas !tell [davidmead] I think dgold worked on something like that. But I may well be mistaken.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] Seriously considering re-activating my Flickr PRO account. The new owners seem genuinely aligned with many indieweb principles (longevity etc.) and are being up front about costs of running the site without having to depend on an abusive ad-revenue / surveillance/tracking business model.
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[tantek] ICYMI they did a recent (20d ago) AMA https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/a71mh3/hi_my_name_is_don_macaskill_and_im_the_cofounder/
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petermolnar I never had a flickr pro account, never used it that much to consider it, however, the older I'm getting the more I see I should be paying for services
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petermolnar question is, though, does it worth it?
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petermolnar what's the reason for a flickr account, let alone a pro flickr account?
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[tantek] one thing that's impressed me is their widespread support for embedding, APIs, and feeds
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jeremycherfas If you are not currently over the limit, then I would wait and see whether the social aspects are worth it. I have had a pro account from early on (a friend gave one to me when they were using that to encourage new users) and enjoyed the pools, groups etc.
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[tantek] like Bridgy is already setup to publish photos, and backfeed *all* interactions
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[tantek] which is more than *any other photo silo*
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[tantek] almost everyone I know with a Flickr account is way over the 1k free photo limit
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aaronpk i wonder if i should reconsider my eventual plan of leaving flickr
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[tantek] Jeremycherfas what (other?) limit are you talking about?
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petermolnar I'm sort of with aaronpk on this
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[voss] I just bought my Flickr Pro subscription yesterday. They have 15% off with the code FLICKRPRO15.
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petermolnar for the sole purpose of having it as a flashier display of all my photos it doesn't worth it
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[voss] I'm considering ditching Instagram entirely, and use Flickr for the reasons that Tantek outlined.
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[tantek] aaronpk, the new owners are much more aligned (in terms of values / principles) with indieweb ways than any previous owner / attempt (except maybe the original founders)
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jeremycherfas That's the one I was talking about, in reference to pertermolnar's comment, with the possibly flawed assumption that although he didn't have a pro account, he might have had a free one.
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[tantek] voss++ thanks for the discount code!
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Loqi voss has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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aaronpk i got sort of annoyed with all the changes they were making to the flickr pro account, but that's settled down in the last couple years
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petermolnar [voss]: that would be lovely, but it's not a viable replacement, if you consider the audience
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jeremycherfas Agreed.
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[tantek] petermolnar, nah the opposite is becoming true - people are leaving IG (as part of leaving FB)
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jeremycherfas Nor is pixelfed a viable replacement, yet. For some purposes.
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[tantek] at some point in that trend (people leaving IG), Flickr becomes more viable than IG
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petermolnar people are leaving, that's what I see, they are not migrating, just leaving
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aaronpk anomalily just got one of her photos featured on the "explore" page yesterday, and was a good reminder of how much community there still is there. that photo got 53,000 views.
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[tantek] I don't trust longevity/sustainability of pixelfed yet - I'm waiting to see a business model that allows for storage permalinks "forever"
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petermolnar fb/ig because privacy, experiments on people, and bullshit, tumblr because flagging anything, twitter because of the lovely audience
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[voss] That coupon expires tomorrow, FYI.
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[tantek] anyway, the greater alignment of principles interests me because once they sort out basic infrastructure issues (getting off of Yahoo login), I am optimistic that they would be open to supporting indieweb protocols as well
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petermolnar [tantek]: to be honest, this is not a new set of principles in case of flickr, rather an ancient, pre-yahoo
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petermolnar even their API is basically pre-yahoo
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aaronpk interesting, i wonder what it would look like for flickr to be a permanent part of my indieweb presence
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[tantek] Also Flickr had one of the better (best?) "block" implementations in all of social media, like forever ago (still does) which makes it quite good for "automatic" (unfiltered) showing of backfeed on original photo posts
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[tantek] aaronpk, I'm thinking currently what would it be like to have an incrementally indieweb-friendly silo
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aaronpk it would be amazing if i could comment and favorite flickr photos from my website
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jeremycherfas I've never been that interested in posting both on my own site and on Flickr, but the ability to use Flickr to generate slideshows used to be important to me.
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[tantek] aaronpk, pretty sure you already can via Bridgy Publish
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petermolnar aaronpk: the flickr api is essentially capable of anything the site is capable of, so neither of them is a problem
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petermolnar reupload is a bit tricky, but that's the only tricky one
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aaronpk yeah bridgy publish gets you pretty far
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[tantek] lol petermolnar "just a small matter of programming"
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aaronpk but flickr could also just support webmentions natively :)
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petermolnar [tantek]: :P
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[tantek] aaronpk, Bridgy Publish even supports person-tags in POSSE photo posts to Flickr - works great
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[tantek] aaronpk, that's my point, I see it as a series of "indieweb friendlier" transition steps over time
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petermolnar what I meant to say is, that unlike the other silos, the flickr api is without limitations to what is allowed through the API
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[tantek] current Flickr is *very* friendly via Bridgy - much more than any other photo/video site
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aaronpk it's true, it's one of the few big social networks that has left their API intact
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[tantek] I'd say it might be interesting to get Flickr to support IndieAuth (as part of replacing Yahoo login), then Micropub as a posting API, as well as WebSub for realtime notifications from their feeds
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[tantek] then Webmentions from those who have IndieAuth logins (easier to avoid spam that way)
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aaronpk those seem like a good starting point!
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[tantek] my larger point is, these all seem like reasonable steps they might be interested in taking in the next 3-5 years
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[tantek] which is why I feel like it's worth the risk/investment to try supporting them for a few years to see what happens
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[tantek] another use-case I'd be looking at is a dependable longterm photo/video CDN that has a nice UI (as opposed to hacking / monitoring S3 etc.)
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[tantek] Also - if you read the AMA link I posted above, you can see that they've committed to preserving any/all photos from deceased photographers! As far as I know I've never heard of a paid service doing that before and that's amazing.
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[tantek] I know it is true for *past* accounts, but I'm not sure about the future, however I'm kind of hopeful about it - that is, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to preserve deceased photographer's photos moving forward
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[tantek] I know we've talked about the indieweb challenge of keeping our sites working after we're gone, but I don't know of anyone who came up with a good plan for that.
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aaronpk wow
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[cleverdevil] Morning, IndieWeb 🙂
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dietricha anyone written something that connects micropub to static site generator triggers?
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aaronpk yes! https://indieweb.org/static_site#Micropub
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dietricha eg, my site is md files on github on one branch, and generated site on another
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dietricha so i need micropub -> md -> github -> triggers back to github
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dietricha aaronpk: 👍🏼 thanks, reading!
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[davidmead] I let my Flickr Pro account revert to free some time ago. It’s been acting as a backup for my phone (all photos stored there as private). Maybe I should re-up for this year to give it another chance.
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[davidmead] I agree with tantek, new owners do look comitted to a positive change
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[davidmead] thx jeremycherfas. i’ll search out dgold’s Goodreads work
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sknebel [davidmead]: see the wiki page - silo.pub supports it too (although I think you need to run it yourself nowadays?)
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[smerrill] ive been a Flickr Pro user for ages; but stopped uploading aggressively some time ago. The API does make it insanely easy to use for a variety of purposes.
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[davidmead] reminds me i have to tidy up app permissions in Flickr. still have dopplr, brightkite, and zootool in there
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk wow i have a bunch of old ones too
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[davidmead] I had over 20!
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4yPD4MiK.jpg
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GWG tantek, re earlier, I have been a Smugmug customer for years. The new Flickr owner
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GWG For private family photos
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[tantek] what is smugmug
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Loqi SmugMug is a privately held paid subscription photo hosting silo founded in 2002 that acquired Flickr from Oath in 2018 https://indieweb.org/SmugMug
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[tantek] GWG ^^^ would you feel comfortable adding yourself to an "IndieWeb Examples" section there noting how long you've been a (paying presumably) Smugmug customer? I think paying for private posts (photos especially) is a very important use-case to document at least existing solutions and usage thereof
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snarfed ...late to the conversation, but just to confirm, bridgy publish supports "Flickr photos, videos, comments, and favorites. Photos may include location, tags, and/or people tags." https://brid.gy/about#publish-types
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snarfed and it backfeeds "Flickr comments and favorites on your photos." https://brid.gy/about#which
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snarfed happy to consider more feature requests!
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[tantek] looks up /tag-reply
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snarfed [tantek]: sorry no, that's https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/832
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[tantek] and https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/776
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snarfed my conclusion was no for bridgy, or at least unlikely: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/832#issuecomment-441453850
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snarfed ah sure, 776 is a doable feature request
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[tantek] and related (SWAT0!) https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/488
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[tantek] snarfed, agree re: multi-type handling challenge. also not strictly necessary.
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[tantek] i.e. the original publisher can handle the atomicity on their side
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[tantek] oops going a bit dev
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snarfed eh not entirely. still user feature topic
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snarfed but yes, imho the idempotence is the biggest challenge. leads directly back to https://snarfed.org/2015-11-29_keep-bridgy-publish-dumb
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[tantek] yup. I'm a fan of that
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[tantek] snarfed, what I want is the Flickr equivalent for tag-of (person or text) posts of https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/786
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[tantek] I couldn't find an issue for that for Flickr though - still looking
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[tantek] Yeah looks like I should just file one
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[tantek] (assuming it would be considered 🙂 )
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snarfed sure!
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snarfed if we do see an indieweb flickr resurgence, feel free to prioritize bridgy requests, i can look into carving out time for the top few
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[tantek] ok will do
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[tantek] might prioritize my experimenting with such features on my own site just to get something sort of working with Flickr to exercise it
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[tantek] Theoretically we should be able to use Flickr APIs / Bridgy to implement full real-time automated federation with Flickr
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snarfed close, at least. eg backfeed is still poll
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snarfed and https://www.flickr.com/services/api/ shows a crap ton of features; i would never implement them all :P
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snarfed if you all do want to collaboratively prioritize bridgy flickr requests, maybe the two bridgy sections of https://indieweb.org/Flickr are the best place? could also do it on github, just not sure how.
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GWG I wonder if it is worth migrating to Flickr.
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GWG I should look
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[tantek] snarfed, yes I'll look at updating indieweb.org/Flickr accordingly and the specific feature pages as well like /tag-reply
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snarfed [tantek]++
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Loqi [tantek] has 13 karma in this channel over the last year (82 in all channels)
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[tantek] starts to unwind the stack (or is it queue) of what he committed in this channel today
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[tantek] snarfed, I just rediscovered my past analysis of different possibilities of tag-reply and reply-to in the same post. Only one of those was "multi-interaction" as has been rejected in 832 as you noted. The other (which I think makes more sense) was to only use the reply-to as *fallback* by consuming code that didn't recognize the tag-of markup.
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snarfed right. i'd think that would violate the principle of least surprise for the average user though
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snarfed maybe it's reasonable if the reply has no content?
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[tantek] I think the opposite, as in, principle of least surprise means that at least *something* shows up when you do a tag-reply, even if it is lower fidelity than ideally desired
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[tantek] the reply only has p-summary content
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snarfed ah yeah no, i don't want to automatically do only part of what a user expresses
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[tantek] which we've already discussed is a good pattern for fallback content in general (using p-summary)
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snarfed especially if i can't be sure they'll look at it after to confirm what happened
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[tantek] huh?
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[tantek] no this is exactly doing what a user expresses, only the tagging
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snarfed but *silently drops* the reply
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[tantek] the p-summary is not something the user typed to be clear - it's auto-generated as fallback text
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snarfed let me reread
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[tantek] no from a user perspective there is no "reply" that they typed
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[tantek] sorry I must be being unclear
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[tantek] this is similar to the fall back text for likes that says "Tantek likes this photo"
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snarfed right, that's what i meant above by "maybe it's reasonable if the reply has no content?"
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snarfed do you have a link for your analysis? i don't see it in issue 832
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[tantek] Also I'm going to update the brainstorming https://indieweb.org/tag-reply#tag_and_fallback (and following) accordingly to note that due to analysis & experience the "tag and comment" post idea is bad for simple UX, and implementability.
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[tantek] that's because your analysis in issue 832 is correct
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snarfed are you saying in https://indieweb.org/tag-reply#tag_and_fallback that there would be e-content? or no?
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[tantek] no
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snarfed ok. so you're also proposing that sites that don't support tag-of would need to handle missing e-content and render p-summary instead?
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[tantek] that's the current fallback handling as we discussed at IWS 2018
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snarfed oh really
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snarfed interesting! i expect few if any existing wm handlers do that right now. i'd be curious to hear of any
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[tantek] did you find in-reply-to and summary only -> you may be looking at a new type of response that just has summary text you can use to display (until you implement the new type of response)
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[tantek] similarly for new types of content like if we come up with a u-some-new-media
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snarfed sure, i understand the intent. i just doubt anyone has actually implemented that (yet).
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snarfed anyway, i'd happily consider supporting that fallback format in bridgy, since it lets users show that they intend only a single interaction
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[tantek] pretty sure /comments recommends using the summary if there's no content
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[tantek] adding your point about explicitly no e-content to make it less confusing
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snarfed yes, again, i believe you that this behavior is specified, i've just never seen it in practice anywhere. i'd love to be proven wrong though!
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[tantek] pretty sure most webmention comment receivers handle looking at p-summary
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[tantek] I suppose it could be added as a webmention.rock test case
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aaronpk my website is a surprisingly helpful resource for renewing my global entry application
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aaronpk "which countries have you been to since 2014"
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aaronpk checks his month archive pages
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[tantek] aaronpk do you have monthly summaries?
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[tantek] what is a monthly recap
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Loqi monthly recap is a post that summarizes your posts from the previous (typically Gregorian) month, that some silos like Swarm automatically generate for you and allow you to cross-post to other silos https://indieweb.org/monthly_recap
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[tantek] what is a monthly summary
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "monthly summary" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "monthly summary is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk no summaries, just an calendar view
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[tantek] monthly summary is /monthly_recap
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2016/09
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Loqi Aaron Parecki
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[tantek] whoa and the hours and miles summary though!
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[tantek] when did you make that?
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aaronpk last month?
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aaronpk maybe november?
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aaronpk i don't know how dates work anymore
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sknebel I think you said "last month" when you showed that off in Nürnberg 😆
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aaronpk omg
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aaronpk see
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[dave] Anyone attending IWC Austin have hotel arrangements planned yet? I'm not close enough to commute home daily and not really familiar with Austin hotels. Or is IWC like a lock-in where I need to bring a sleeping bag?
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[tantek] the C stands for Camp 🙂
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[relapse] Morning all.
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sknebel [dave]: last iwcs page had a hotel section as a starting point https://indieweb.org/2017/Austin#Hotels
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[tantek] might be worth replicating that to /2019/Austin !
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[dave] I helped!
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[dave] Also
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[dave] I tripped over a scooter last time I was in Austin, so this is a legit warning. I even tumbled far enough after tripping that they charged me for the privilege.
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jacky https://websitevoice.com/
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