#indieweb 2019-01-15

2019-01-15 UTC
botka, bo214, todrobbins, bo216, snarfed, bo218, [jgmac1106], bo220, bo222, bo224, bo226, bo228, bo230, [tantek], bo232, [cleverdevil], bo234, bo236, bo238, bo240, bo242, wolftune, nitot, bo244, bo246, bo248, bo250, bo252, bo254, bo256, bo258, bo260, mr_dude, bo262, bo264, sl007, KartikPrabhu and [eddie] joined the channel
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jeremycherfas !tell [cleverdevil] Are you going to go back and add comments or notes to those 275 listen posts, or is it enough for you to just know that you listened?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[cleverdevil] I think it’s enough to know that I listened.
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[cleverdevil] In the future, I may start leaving comments or notes on the posts.
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jeremycherfas Right. That’s what I would do.
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Loqi Flickr Pro discount code (FLICKRPRO15 at checkout) expires on 2019-01-15!
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Loqi Countdown set by [tantek] on 2019-01-07 at 11:46pm PST
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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sknebel good morning!
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jeremycherfas In my plans today, continue walking through Grav's comment plugin to try and discover why it is broken.
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[jgmac1106] Here is a set of posts I wrote last night for Mozilla friend who runs up the Diversity and Inclusion initiatives. Couldn't find resources on why you should blog in FOSS https://jgmac1106homepage.glitch.me/opensourceblogging.html would love any feedback
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[jgmac1106] I figure I didn't break my rule of nothing but book for writing if I end up using some if in our Open Pedagogy book
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[jgmac1106] morning [sknebel] and [jeremycherfas]
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[jgmac1106] actual link: http://jgregorymcverry.com/opensourceblogging.html well off to get kids ready for school and thn back to finishing this dumb book
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gRegorLove Howdy #indieweb
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[kim_landwehr] I am trying to indiewebifying my blot.im account using the instructions at https://blog.amitgawande.com/micropub-endpoint-for-blot. However after finishing the set up and trying to use quill.io I am getting an error message from my Micropub Endpoint, however the box that would contain the full information is blank. Does anyone know how to get that information to show up?
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[tantek] Welcome back gRegorLove!
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gRegorLove Thanks!
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[tantek] [kim_landwehr], no idea unfortunately. Anyone else using blot.im?
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[tantek] What is blot.im?
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Loqi Blot is an open source blogging platform built by David Merfield that uses Dropbox to store your content https://indieweb.org/blot.im
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[tantek] I’d check the IndieWeb Examples section there
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j4y_funabashi Hey guys, I have started brainstorming and building out my micropub client https://indieweb.org/okami
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[tantek] [kim_landwehr] maybe try that ^^^ and see if it works with your Blot setup?
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[kim_landwehr] Thanks [tantek] I will try that
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j4y_funabashi there is a running version here http://okami.funabashi.co.uk you should be able to login and post a note & see a version of my ideal photo posting UI
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[tantek] Meanwhile I’m not sure how to react to this https://www.instagram.com/p/BsOGulcndj-/
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gRegorLove reacts with an "eggcellent!"
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aaronpk j4y_funabashi: neat! is the "gallery" things that have been recently uplaoded to the media endpoint?
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j4y_funabashi yes it will be. At the moment it is just static data
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aaronpk very cool
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j4y_funabashi aaronpk: I want to build out my media server so I can upload all my photos to it, then use this interface to add them to posts
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aaronpk nice! that's kinda what i've been thinking too
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aaronpk i just haven't got very far with it. like at most some UI sketches and rough notes but last time i touched that was over a year ago
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j4y_funabashi and also have a flag to say whether the photo has already been published (I think I could use webmentions for this)
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j4y_funabashi aaronpk: Yeah I have been blocked only thinking about the server side. As soon as I started with UI first it all came together quite nicely
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aaronpk :)
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j4y_funabashi aaronpk: I take it you were able to login?
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aaronpk yea!
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j4y_funabashi awesome!
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[zak] Good morning Indieweb
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dgold hey.
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jeremycherfas Hey hey.
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dgold aaronpk: can I ask you - how does your slack->irc thing not create a cascade of forwarded emssages?
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[chrisaldrich] good morning indiewebz
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jeremycherfas Good morning [chrisaldrich]
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aaronpk dgold: it knows which messages it sends to IRC and doesn't send those back to Slack if that's what you mean
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[chrisaldrich] It seems like I recall someone recently created a wiki page related to the idea of "discovery", but with a different word relating more to search, directories, serendipity, etc. I'm not finding it now however.
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dgold ah, so you have the same system sending them both ways
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aaronpk no, but all the slack people in IRC have the same IRC username
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jeremycherfas Was that Kicks Condor?
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jeremycherfas Oh no, you said on the wiki. Sorry.
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[tantek] what is discovery
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Loqi Discovery for the IndieWeb is a set of algorithms to start with a URL like a home page or post permalink, and determine information about that URL, such as authorship, page-name, and date published https://indieweb.org/discovery
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[chrisaldrich] Something related to the ideas that Brad Enslen and kicks condor have been working on, but i'm not sure either are doing much on the wiki...
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[tantek] feel free to start something there as an alternative meaning!
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[chrisaldrich] I'm trying to think of what would be a good alternate catch all that might fit into /lost_infrastructure and covers the ideas of discovery, /recommendation_engine, /who_to_follow, /tags, /planet, etc.
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[chrisaldrich] Brad and Kicks have been doing some interesting experiments and thinking and we should tuck it into the wiki somewhere.
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[tantek] go ahead and use "discovery" for now - it's short, and the meaning you speak of is user-centric, so we should prefer it anyway
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[tantek] add it as another section, and we can update / rewrite the page later to clean it up from that perspective
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aaronpk recommendation engine, who to follow, etc all sound like a form of discovery to me
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snarfed indieweb has done really well so far with naturally decentralized/peer to peer functionality, but naturally centralized stuff (eg search, discovery/recommendation, etc) is obviously harder
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snarfed interesting to think of how to approximate something like discovery decentralized. eg as a single user, look at the people in your reader, collect other people they like/repost/reply to, and rank them somehow
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snarfed (as opposed to a centralized service)
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[tantek] Snarfed I don’t view discovery as necessarily centralized. Eg napster, BitTorrent etc
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snarfed oh agreed, it's definitely *doable* decentralized. just not *natural*.
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snarfed as opposed to eg a reply, which is naturally one to one.
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[tantek] ah ok. Yes experienced seems to back that assessment
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[jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] yes we were documenting Tumblr discovery somewhere recently
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sknebel somewhat high-profile silo-quit, and a nice example for "use a custom domain": https://m.signalvnoise.com/signal-v-noise-exits-medium/
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[tantek] I feel this applies to a lot of us too: "Writing for us is not a business, in any direct sense of the word. We write because we have something to say, not to make money off page views, advertisements, or subscriptions. "
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[tantek] Medium << Criticism: 2019-01-15 SvN: [https://m.signalvnoise.com/signal-v-noise-exits-medium/ Signal v Noise exits Medium]
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Loqi ok, I added "Criticism: 2019-01-15 SvN: [https://m.signalvnoise.com/signal-v-noise-exits-medium/ Signal v Noise exits Medium]" to the "See Also" section of /Medium https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=55593&oldid=55156
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[chrisaldrich] DHH's silo quit has been building for a while... They made a high profile exit from Facebook in December: https://m.signalvnoise.com/Become-A-Facebook-Free-Business/
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[chrisaldrich] Are they working toward one silo quit per month?
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[chrisaldrich] I'm curious if signalvnoise.com has always had that "m" subdomain or if they picked it up when they moved to Medium?
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[benatwork] The latter
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[chrisaldrich] They also sound like they're moving away from Twitter too in a much more indie fashion:
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[chrisaldrich] "Not just big, marque pieces, but lots of smaller observations, quotes, links, and other posts as well. In fact, the intention is to lessen our dependency on Twitter too, and simply turn Signal v Noise into the independent home for all our thoughts and ideas – big or small."
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[chrisaldrich] What is discovery?
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Loqi Discovery is a variety of methods for finding content, websites, communities, or people to follow on the web including search, directories, recommendation engines, tags, or other serendipitous methods https://indieweb.org/discovery
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[chrisaldrich] ^^ thoughts and ideas more than welcome on this alternate user-centric definition
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[tantek] looks pretty good, I'd only drop "to follow" as that's just one possible use-case
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[tantek] what is own your data
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Loqi own your data is an IndieWeb principle with two key parts: 1) your data lives primarily on your own domain, and 2) you maintain usable access to it over time https://indieweb.org/own_your_data
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[tantek] what is own your replies
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "own your replies" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "own your replies is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] own your replies is the IndieWeb approach of posting your [[reply]] posts on your own site first and using [[Webmention]] to automatically send them to show up as [[comments]] on the original post, and/or automatically having your site [[POSSE]] them to silo (copies of) posts.
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Loqi ok
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[tantek] own your comments is the IndieWeb approach of accepting [[Webmention]]s and in particular from [[reply]] posts as part of collecting all the [[responses]] to your posts on your own site so if/when the original reply posts disappear, you still have a copy of the conversation.
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[tantek] oops
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[tantek] what is own your comments
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "own your comments" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "own your comments is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] own your comments is the IndieWeb approach of accepting [[Webmention]]s and in particular from [[reply]] posts as part of collecting all the [[responses]] to your posts on your own site so if/when the original reply posts disappear, you still have a copy of the conversation.
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Loqi ok
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[kevinmarks] mapping the responses would mean everyone else would need to export theirs and then send webmentions?
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[tantek] own your comments << Note: this is particularly important because many silo exports (e.g. [[Medium]]) do not export the comments on your posts per https://m.signalvnoise.com/signal-v-noise-exits-medium/ <blockquote>sad to say, Medium didn’t let us export the comments, so those are gone 😢</blockquote>
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Loqi ok, I added "Note: this is particularly important because many silo exports (e.g. [[Medium]]) do not export the comments on your posts per https://m.signalvnoise.com/signal-v-noise-exits-medium/ <blockquote>sad to say, Medium didn’t let us export the comments, so those are gone 😢</blockquote>" to a brand new "See Also" section of /own_your_comments https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=55602&oldid=55601
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[kevinmarks] medium does give you some moderation control over comments now
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[tantek] what is moderation
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Loqi Moderation is the process of holding comments for review by a human, and sometimes a source of frustration when a comment is written on another site that the commenter has no control over https://indieweb.org/moderation
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[tantek] [kevinmarks] perhaps screenshot their support and add it to "Silo Examples" there?
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[kevinmarks] Interesting discussion on early web Function with Anil Dash: Social Media, 20 Years Ago https://glitch.com/function
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[kevinmarks] https://glitch.com/culture/function-episode-11/
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blueyed Can you recommend some good DNS server? OpenDNS appeared to be a good alternative a while ago, but might not be anymore?!
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jacky blueyed: I use a mix personally
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jacky DNSimple for the interface (I have it for my consultancy + personal) and IWantMyName if it's cheaper
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jacky blueyed: what's wrong with OpenDNS though?
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blueyed jacky: thanks.. I've meant as a server, instead of the one you might get via DHCP (because it intercepts no-domain responses for example), and if you do not want to use Google's.
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blueyed Re OpenDNS - would be OK I guess, but wondered if there is something recommended from you.
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[smerrill] I use Quad9
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[smerrill] 9.9.9.9
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[smerrill] https://www.quad9.com/
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[smerrill] CloudFlare has 1.1.1.1, too.
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[smerrill] https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/setting-up-1.1.1.1/
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[smerrill] both support DNS-over-TLS, so you can protect your DNS lookups.
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jacky ah okay
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snarfed [smerrill]: you mean DOH, right?
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snarfed (i think over TLS may be somewhat different, and is less adopted)
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snarfed https://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2018-10/oarc29.html
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snarfed ah nm, those two at least do support both
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[smerrill] yup. they both support DNS-over-TLS and DNS-over-HTTPS
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blueyed Thanks. DNS-over-TLS would be interesting - what do you use for this? Network Manager does not seem to support it. Is something like stubby required?
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snarfed we probably need to -> #dev
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