#indieweb 2019-02-01

2019-02-01 UTC
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[asuh] kevinmarks: https://help.disqus.com/commenting/guest-commenting
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dmcweeney Does anyone know how to use Grav by chance?
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chrisaldrich dmcweeney there are a few here who are using Grav.
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chrisaldrich What is Grav?
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Loqi Grav is a flat-file CMS built on PHP, with Twig templating, and YAML + Markdown for storing articles (YAML for metadata, Markdown for the content) https://indieweb.org/Grav
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chrisaldrich ^^ has a few examples. I know that jeremycherfas and rosemary orchard both do, though they're typically on EU timezones
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chrisaldrich dmcweeney, do you have a particular question we can help you with in the erstwhile?
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dmcweeney Yes
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dmcweeney Here is my consulting website
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dmcweeney consulting.drewmcweeney.com
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dmcweeney How do I rename the menu bar and change the "Grav' in the top left corner of my site?
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[jgmac1106] You don't skip HWC New Haven that's how
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[jgmac1106] Grav is a pretty robust CMS. There is probably a setting to switch the logo
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[jgmac1106] If not just Google "switch nav logo bootstrap" if you are using bootstrap theme
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dmcweeney Lol!
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dmcweeney I am definitely coming to the next HWC!
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dmcweeney When is it?
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Loqi It was a dark and stormy night https://indieweb.org/It
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jacky bwahah
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[cleverdevil] !tell [schmarty] for some reason, my site doesn't show up in the IndieWebRing directory. Says it can't find my h-card. On indiewebify.me, it shows up fine, and elsewhere. Maybe a bug?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jacky kinda wish https://boffosocko.com/2017/07/28/an-introduction-to-the-indieweb/ existed in a video companion format
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jacky it's a great read
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[zacksiri] I think it is a great read
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[zacksiri] People are afraid of indie web because the friction is extremely high
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[zacksiri] to establishing your own site, brand, distribution etc...
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[zacksiri] i'm working on a tool that helps
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[zacksiri] with this mission
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jeremycherfas !tell dmcweeney It depends a lot on the specific theme and they are all somewhat different. Grav convo is on Discord, if that’s a help. Or we can move to # chat or #dev
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Zegnat “to establishing your own site, brand, distribution etc” - wear the same shirt to every event; brand established
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "How I Set up my WordPress Indieweb Website – 2019 Edition" https://david.shanske.com/2019/02/01/how-i-set-up-my-wordpress-indieweb-website-2019-edition/
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[grantcodes] Haha yes Zegnat, see Tom Scott for a great example!
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Zegnat should order some more pink polo shirts
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[kevinmarks] I had a point where I always wore orange shirts when I gave a talk
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[jgmac1106] Good morning
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[jgmac1106] I have theme music follow me around as a brand
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Loqi guten morgen
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Zegnat US President style, [jgmac1106]?
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[jgmac1106] no Jack Spade style
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GWG I prefer musical style. Everyone gets a theme song.
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[jgmac1106] here is Jack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3oeAlOtbkE and then the OG theme music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz-KwtKRBUY and
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[jgmac1106] Having KRS-One follow me around would be the bomb
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[jgmac1106] but I could live with some good funk, better dancing
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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[jgmac1106] jeremy beyond bringing font awesome down from 5 to 3 the listen plugin is good to go
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GWG I do not get that statement
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GWG Version 5 to 3?
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[jgmac1106] GWG we were talking font awesome and what link you have in your header, in an effort to ensure backcompat never works I guess font awesome has changed the letters from fa-fas-fab for different situtation. So we wrote the plugin for Font Awesome 5 but the Known Core is built for Font Awesome 3..so unless you added a link to the Font Awesome 5 cdn inyour header the plugin will display a missing icon
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GWG Interesting
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GWG Why not propose upgrading?
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[jgmac1106] or switching to CSS icons...but that would be work,...it will be in 1.0
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[jgmac1106] been fun all of the sudden a little resurgence in Known Open Source development
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[jgmac1106] other times ...there is font awesome pro and font awesome free and those have different icon sets and I sometimes forget and will use a pro icon, need to remember always use free
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[jgmac1106] I do wonder about data and font awesoem and there cdn and why the brand icons went to fab...are we installing little trackers all over the web which may not yet be deployed?
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[jgmac1106] how hard is it for a company the size of facebook to crawl for fab-facebook? and then build knowledge graphs and get data for shadow profiles?...or.....how easy would it be for font awesome to sell an analytics dashboard to facebook since they have the cdn knowing up when, how often, and where the icons get served....that has to be worth some pretty good scratch
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[jgmac1106] ...sorry American slang, money
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jeremycherfas !tell [jgmac1106] The honest truth is that I am deliberating among three options: the Listen plugin on Known or possibly trying to use cleverdevil's script as the basis for something in Grav, or a hand-built "consumed" lag page in Grav.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106] jeremycherfas it feels like you are moving more and mroe towards Grav you may want to build that way for a bit and see if that is where you want to go
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[davidmead] gwg jgmac1106 I think Known also has the old icon set as part of it’s download. I seem to remember that someone proposed using an alternative to FontAwesome . Might be the way to go
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jeremycherfas I do get frustrated with Known at times. On the one hand, it does work, out of the box, in a very IndieWeb way. On the other, the templating seems more complex that TWig and the blob storage I find impenetrable.
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[kevinmarks] ouch https://www.w3.org/2003/08/system-status-archive#T2019-01-18
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[davidmead] is nothing sacred kevinmarks?
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[davidmead] jeremycherfas as someone dipping his toe into “adding to” Known I agree with that statement
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[davidmead] has taken me a little while to figure out what gets rendered where, and why
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[kevinmarks] What can we do to help the layed off journalists PESOS their articles? https://twitter.com/hayleycampbell/status/1091283942311895040
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@hayleycampbell PSA: with all the websites dying, go save the stuff you wrote as pdfs before they disappear. Otherwise you’ll be trying to get jobs with pocket fluff. (twitter.com/_/status/1091283942311895040)
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[jgmac1106] [kevinmarks] make a simple tool for archive.org insert article url here->get archiv link here
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[jgmac1106] could even add some kind of syndication tool to send them all somewhere
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[tantek] Kevinmarks add that tweet to /longevity
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[kevinmarks] [jgmac1106] I did in mention.tech: http://mention.tech/
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[kevinmarks] (second form)
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[kevinmarks] (yes I need better layout)
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[jgmac1106] yeah but make it look just like it was written for journalist
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[kevinmarks] I also have http://mention.tech/getfromarchive?url=indieweb.org
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Loqi Main Page https://indieweb.org/images/thumb/9/99/2018-06-26-iws-day-1.jpg/1600px-2018-06-26-iws-day-1.jpg
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[kevinmarks] which gives the most recent cached html (it breaks relative urls)
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[jgmac1106] but two lines and make it look like it is for journalist. i can style up a page with two form fields this weekend if you want...maybe even set it up like a newspaper and they could put articles in different sections that section would be the tags in archive.org...I could make a newspaper layout...would have no idea how to make the categories work
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[kevinmarks] well, that's edging towards what pinboard does - selective pdf archiving
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[jgmac1106] i meant just a fancy way of saying put tech article here, headline, here, sports, here and just inserting #nes #tech or sports, just a pretty layout for some input fields
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[jgmac1106] still doing the exact same thing metion.tech does
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[kevinmarks] not sure how well it works for paywalled stuf though
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tglobe_ some paywalls can be broken
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tglobe_ (I know a few Belgian newspapers where it is possible)
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tglobe_ Have tried some English newspapers as well, unsuccessfully
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[jgmac1106] here is my trick for paywalls i works 80% of time I use the hypothes.is wrapper
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[jgmac1106] used to work with hytimes but they put a block
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[eddie] 0
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[eddie] oops haha
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[eddie] darn macOS autofocus on new windows
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[kevinmarks] looks liek some WaPo makes it through http://mention.tech/getfromarchive?url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/the-collective-madness-behind-britains-latest-brexit-plan/2019/01/31/48d4d67e-2578-11e9-81fd-b7b05d5bed90_story.html
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tglobe_ nice!
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://jackjamieson.net/3311-2/ (from https://snarfed.org/2019-02-01_jack-jamieson)
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snarfed ^ very cool deep dive on indieweb and bridgy dev sociology. i've read the paper preprint, it's great, can't wait for it to be published and available more widely.
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aaronpk neat
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jacky syndication to archive.org! great idea!
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[kevinmarks] I made mention.tech archive both source and target for every webmention too.
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jacky is that mentioned anywhere?
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jacky I have to add a discloser page to my site about what I do with people's data (that reminded me)
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snarfed "dress it up in halloween costumes and play ping pong with it. you know, the usual."
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jacky lmfaoo
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snarfed (it's friday! :P)
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jacky I actually want to see if one could make an animation from the h-card of random incoming webmentions doing that
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jacky but like this http://www.picsngiggles.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/dancing-pumkin-halloween.gif
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[kevinmarks] https://xkcd.com/2106/
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Loqi [XKCD] Sharing Options https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sharing_options_2x.png
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "My Indieweb experience so far - RianVDM" https://rianvdm.com/indieweb (from https://aaronparecki.com/2019/02/01/8/)
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jacky ahh I didn't notice this before about micro.blog
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jacky but could it be considered a reader of sorts?
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aaronpk yeah absolutely
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jacky but from select sources (like super select)
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jacky hmm
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aaronpk not a generic reader, since you can't subscribe to things that aren't already on micro.blog, but that's a huge part of the experience
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jacky right right
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jacky that's interesting
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[cleverdevil] I'd call it a short-form reader 🙂
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jacky haha
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[cleverdevil] But, if you use Indiepaper with it (which is supports!), you can use it more like a reader.
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[cleverdevil] s/is/it
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jacky I wonder if it's faster that way since (assuming) everything's cached/pulled into micro.blog's system
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aaronpk faster than what?
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jacky querying against a (potentially) remote microsub server
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jacky I'm also just assuming a lot about the arch of it
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aaronpk eh, not really, have you seen how fast monocle is? ;-)
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jacky lol this is true
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[cleverdevil] I'd still love to see NetNewsWire get support for microsub for syncing.
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jacky looks like 'save' is a custom property for indiepaper.io
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[cleverdevil] I love being able to sync a bunch of stuff down to a native reader, and then process it while I am offline.
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jacky koype rejects any 'foreign'/unknown scopes by default
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, that was a little extension I invented with input from folks here 😉
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jacky gotcha! I'll have to add it
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[cleverdevil] (I use Indiepaper in conjunction with Aperture, rather than my site)
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[asuh] What would be the 2019 equivalency of the LiveJournal community today but also supports Indieweb principles? Something turnkey and hosted that gives bloggers/authors/publishers immediate access without having to tinker
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[eddie] Probably Micro.blog
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[eddie] without knowing much about LiveJournal but reading what you have listed as goals in that sentence, that's what I would say.
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[asuh] [eddie] yeah I signed up for Micro.blog and it’s a consideration. LiveJournal is closer to WordPress in functionality than Micro.blog. I like its simplicity but it’s built more for short form than long form.
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[asuh] and WordPress.com could be that but we haven’t figured out the Indieweb part of it
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[eddie] Gotcha. I don't personally know of any good turnkey solutions/communities that has IndieWeb support.
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[schmarty] [asuh] https://www.dreamwidth.org/ is an open-sourced version of livejournal
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[asuh] [schmarty] yes I looked at that and it doesn’t have the Indieweb part
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[schmarty] afaik it's self-hostable, but i don't know how indieweb-friendly it is.
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[schmarty] asuh, haha, good to know!!
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[asuh] Dreamwidth has an open Github issue to support Activitypub but it’s just a discussion at this point
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[schmarty] ActivityPub is just one way of doing site-to-site IndieWeb-style interactions.
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[schmarty] (but they probably also don't support microformats2, sending/receiving/displaying webmentions, and more)
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[asuh] Correct, they don’t support your list afaict
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[asuh] Dreamwidth Activitypub Github issue: https://github.com/dreamwidth/dw-free/issues/2337
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Loqi [strypey] #2337 Suggestion: implement ActivityPub for federated comments
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snarfed "turnkey and hosted [indieweb]" used to be hosted known
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[asuh] [eddie] that’s what I thought I would hear. I’m asking because I know someone who wants to start writing again, isn’t technical at all, and could benefit from a hosted solution. I was hoping there might be something more turnkey for that reason rather than suggesting a standard or mainstream platform that doesn’t have Indieweb integrated
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snarfed we have a number of "almost" options now - wordpress on a good shared host, micro.blog, wp.com/blogger/tumblr + bridgy for wms - but all have caveats
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snarfed another way to phrase that is, we're pretty solidly through gen 2 in https://indieweb.org/generations , but not really gen 3 yet
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[asuh] snarfed: thank you, I’m aware of most of this and part of my personal agenda was contributing. But it’s disheartening that I can’t help someone have the best of both worlds, publishing + indieweb, without being more technical
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snarfed true! we've made slow solid progress over the years. faster progress probably requires money and/or a benevolent company. it's still arguably too early to say whether anyone can sustainably make money off indieweb yet, which is what hosted services generally require
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snarfed (or at least break even)
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[asuh] I love being technical enough to roll my own solution but I’m trying to see a path to ease the frustration of helping those who aren’t. Maybe that will be contributing to something like Dreamwidth or another hosted solution, I dunno
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[tantek] Asuh could you file an issue requesting Micropub support?
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snarfed probably yes
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[tantek] It’s much easier and there are many more servers & clients
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[asuh] tantek: you mean with Dreamwidth? I linked to the Github issue above that did this
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[cleverdevil] I'd still say Micro.blog is good for the requested use case.
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snarfed and webmention!
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[cleverdevil] You can publish full blog posts on Micro.blog these days just fine.
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[cleverdevil] Its not just for microblogging 🙂
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[asuh] [cleverdevil] it is a good solution but the editor still requires a lot of know-how for someone who just wants the tools built-in
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snarfed [asuh]: you linked to an AP issue. there are no webmention or micropub issues yet
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[tantek] Asuh yes micropub in particular
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[tantek] New issue
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[asuh] snarfed: ohhh right, Micropub, not Activitypub haha
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[asuh] misread
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snarfed also micro.blog doesn't fully interop with non-m.b sites yet. (afaik manton wants to eventually though)
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[cleverdevil] Sure, but the end user could happily use something like Quill, which has a nice user-friendly editor.
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[cleverdevil] Then publish to Micro.blog via Micropub.
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[cleverdevil] Or, if the user is a Mac user, they could use MarsEdit.
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[cleverdevil] You're right though no webmentions really yet.
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[cleverdevil] And other shortcomings.
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[asuh] [cleverdevil] I should test Quill -> Micro.blog. Not sure how that works
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[cleverdevil] I just think its the best we have *today* for a fully hosted solution 🙂
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[asuh] Is [manton] planning to support webmentions?
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aaronpk micro.blog already sends and receives webmentions
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aaronpk even to sites not on micro.blog
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snarfed only partially. https://github.com/microdotblog/issues/issues/75
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Loqi [EdwardHinkle] #75 Adding support for cross-site replies
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aaronpk i thought that was launched recently
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snarfed maybe?
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[cleverdevil] It stores them, and sends them, but doesn't display them.
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[cleverdevil] (At least, I think).
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[eddie] It displays them in the timeline
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[eddie] but not on the user's page
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aaronpk https://www.manton.org/2018/10/09/webmention-improvements-on.html
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Loqi Webmention improvements on Micro.blog
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[cleverdevil] Ah, right.
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aaronpk "Previously, Micro.blog would discard replies that could not be associated with an existing user. Now, these replies will be included in a thread using the domain name for the author."
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snarfed hmm! if m.b 100% supports cross site wms now, then it's way closer to complete turnkey hosted indieweb
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aaronpk i can't quite tell what the current status is, since that post says there is still stuff planned for the future, and the help pages are out of date
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[eddie] Not 100%
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[eddie] It doesn't automatically send webmentions
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[asuh] that’s great, I’m gonna test micro.blog out to see what it’s like with longer form posts
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[eddie] They also just added categories, which is nice for categorization of posts
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snarfed ah ok. ...otherwise though, it has custom domains, mf2, micropub, and indieauth. (and even websub.) so it just needs to send wms to be (basically) complete hosted indieweb?
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[eddie] Yep, pretty much
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snarfed exciting!@
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aaronpk wait but it does send webmentions for some things.. what's missing?
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[eddie] It sends webmentions for replies
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snarfed edits https://indieweb.org/web_hosting to change our preferred hosted silo from tumblr to micro.blog
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aaronpk ooh
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[eddie] But the post you are replying to currently has to exist within Micro.blog
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[eddie] You can't say reply to an external page
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aaronpk oh gotcha
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[eddie] although that's planned
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[eddie] from what I understand
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[asuh] I think the lack of a hosted turnkey solution for the mainstream has been a big reason I haven’t evangelized Indieweb more to non-technical friends. Micro.blog sounds like it gives me hope and I’d love to see 2019 change that more with others. Gotta roll up my sleeves and see how to contribute out there to help facilitate this
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snarfed [asuh]: that's the right instinct. we're not entirely ready for gen 3 yet, and definitely not gen 4. thanks for bolunteering!
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[asuh] oh cool, https://write.as/ also seems to have promise although less features
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jeremycherfas I’m still hopeful that @matigo will release v5.0 of his 10C app that will, I believe, be turnkey and fully supportive. But I know I have said that before.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Homebrew Website Club Los Angeles notes, December 28, 2016" https://boffosocko.com/2016/12/28/homebrew-website-club-los-angeles-notes-december-28-2016/
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Zegnat What is 10C?
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Loqi 10 Centuries (10C) is a blogging/microposting silo, similar in scope and intent to App.net, for posting notes , and longer-form articles https://indieweb.org/10C
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[eddie] 2016?
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[eddie] lol
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[kevinmarks] Known was a hosted turnkey, but the hosting part didn't work out
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[tantek] in particular the free hosting part didn't work out
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "On Simplicity | Max Böck - Frontend Web Developer" https://mxb.at/blog/on-simplicity/ (from https://aaronparecki.com/2019/01/31/8/)
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[tantek] nice
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