#indieweb 2019-02-22

2019-02-22 UTC
ajft, KevinMarks, eli_oat1, [jgmac1106], snarfed1, [manton], [davidmead], electronicmaji, limiting-factor, [eddie], wolftune, snarfed, [chrisaldrich], [tantek], curiouserandcuri, kisik21 and cowglow joined the channel
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jeremycherfas That sparkling font is pretty amazing.
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Zegnat I have someone else's code handle the graphing, I just publish tables of data
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sknebel good morning indieweb!
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Zegnat Good morning!
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[jgmac1106] Good morning
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Loqi *yawn* ... /stretch/
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[Vincent] I quite like the font, but I’m also concerned around accessibility. It’s probably better to go with inline SVG’s that you can mark up correctly and feed the data in to. Semantically it’s probably better
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[Vincent] The font is super useful for mocking up a “thing” quick though!
kisik21, swentie, swentel, apophys, friedcell, blassin, nitot and [Vincent] joined the channel
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[Vincent] https://paulrobertlloyd.github.io/indiekit/
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sknebel interesting
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[Vincent] It looks like a similar approach to mine and Voxpelli. Push in to Github API and regenerate the website. But his is a lot better documented than mine!
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voxpelli [Vincent]: Looks similar indeed, thanks for pointing it out :) I asked for collaboration opportunities: https://github.com/paulrobertlloyd/indiekit/issues/1
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Loqi [voxpelli] #1 Collaboration on parts of the code?
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voxpelli [Vincent]: Which is yours? (I have been quite off the IndieWeb grid lately for a variety of reasons, so not really up to speed with everything)
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aaronpk Sparklines are not meant to replace a full table of data, and also are not supposed to have things like multiple axes or other complicated things you might see in larger charts. They are explicitly an inline visual representation of data. So it seems like {1,3,9,18} would be a reasonable textual fallback of a sparkline generates by that same text using that font. Am I missing something?
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[Vincent] @voxpelli Mine is here: Heavily inspired by yours, but my JS quality is questionable! https://github.com/vipickering/mastr-cntrl
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[Vincent] [aaronpk] I suppose its use case specific, so if a screen reader read out that aloud would it make sense to a user?
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aaronpk My understanding is sparklines are supposed to be used in a context where I feel like hearing the numbers spoken out loud makes sense
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[Vincent] It’s probably fine to use them then and I’m just being over cautious. especially as your readers are probably more technical, its nothing that is unexpected
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voxpelli I think a sparkline can be seen as something like a tooltip/preview – it gives some extra context that one would otherwise needs to navigate to and that context works well when seen, but becomes too heavy when spoken
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voxpelli So rather have a full page version they can navigate to where the data is in a table format
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sknebel you can also add alternate content for screen readers to text-based variants too
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[Vincent] [sknebel] via ARIA?
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sknebel yes
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[Vincent] sounds like a sensible approach to solve it then
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sknebel (although I'd personally would likely use the image variant too, not the biggest fan of web fonts myself)
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[Vincent] I’m playing around with doing some sparkline stats at the moment and slowly inching towards SVG myself.
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voxpelli [Vincent]: neat with the project – and now you got an issue from me as well ;)
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[Vincent] haha! thanks 😛
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voxpelli loves that others are getting inspired by his project
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sknebel good alternate text for a sparkline is also an interesting question. E.g. on aaronpks homepage, surely you don't want to announce "3 articles in january 2018, 2 in february, ..." :D (in that case, maybe hiding is best?)
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sknebel you should try if one of those projects works on glitch too
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[schmarty] IMO reading numbers is definitely not accomplishing the same thing as a sparkline (small visual trends display)
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Loqi +1
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[schmarty] i am really into the idea of an alternate description that conveys the trend info.
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sknebel sounds quite tricky for things you don't maintain manually
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[schmarty] wow i am having trouble parsing out whether WCAG has any specifics on this.
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[schmarty] sknebel: maybe, but there are ways to demonstrate trends through audio! 😄
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sknebel hah
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sknebel that's true
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sknebel (alternatively, once a month create a task at Amazon Mechanical Turk: "in about 6 words, describe the trend in this graph"?)
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voxpelli [schmarty]: Our designer at work recently did sparklines + trending indicator in the same table, and that the trending indicator (an arrow) would work well in speech, but the sparkline will just be hidden from speech
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[schmarty] voxpelli that's an interesting approach!
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voxpelli [schmarty]: I can see if I can fetch a screenshot for you if you like?
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voxpelli (its an internal tool)
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[kevinmarks] Would the audio equivalent of a sparkline be a little tune? Map values to pitch?
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[kevinmarks] So if your investments sound like ascending scales things are good
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voxpelli [kevinmarks]: love it! Like a "do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, do"
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voxpelli This: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solf%C3%A8ge
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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voxpelli One could essentially interpret a sparklines music notes
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voxpelli jeremycherfas: hello!
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jeremycherfas !tell [Vincent],aaronpk The way I think of sparklines, it would almost be better if a screen-reader whistled them, going up and down according the the numbers. That would give a quick auditory verysion of the numbers, much like a sparkline gives a quick visual version.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jeremycherfas Hello voxpelli. I see that (as usual) I should catch up with logs before adding my two cents worth.
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[chrisburnell] Jeremy Keith maps his sparklines to audio (https://adactio.com) and I do the same thing (https://chrisburnell.com) but instead of a chromatic scale as Jeremy has done, I map to a pentatonic scale so it sounds a bit more pleasant; although, admittedly, pentatonic does a worse job at accurately conveying the actual values
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sknebel oh, interesting
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sknebel what is sparkline?
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Loqi A sparkline is a small, simple, data-dense graphic with typographic resolution that is shown inline and in-context with relevant text https://indieweb.org/sparkline
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jeremycherfas How does one get to hear them if one does not normally use a screen reader? Out of interest.
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[Vincent] [chrisburnell] Interesting!
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sknebel [chrisburnell]: ^^^ can you document the audio part there?
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[chrisburnell] [jeremycherfas] Haven't thought that far through 🙂
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sknebel jeremycherfas: on adactio.com you can click them
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jeremycherfas Cool.
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[chrisburnell] [sknebel] I don't see why not—I'll get something up as soon as I can
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petermolnar aaah that was loud
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petermolnar clicked on the adactio sparkline
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aaronpk That's very cool
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Loqi aaronpk: jeremycherfas left you a message 26 minutes ago: The way I think of sparklines, it would almost be better if a screen-reader whistled them, going up and down according the the numbers. That would give a quick auditory verysion of the numbers, much like a sparkline gives a quick visual version.
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voxpelli wonders where he can find the sparkline to audio code
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[jgmac1106] if you talk to people who use screen readers they care not so much about if the content appears in the alternate text so long as if important info is displayed visually then the exact info appears somewhere in text
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[jgmac1106] alt text, a caption, a <p> same info arranged semantically for reader is first priority
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jeremycherfas adactio's articles is the best. I'm sure someone proficient in Morse could tell me what it **really** says.
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[chrisburnell] Bit of a mess but you may be able to follow my mostly undocumented code here https://github.com/chrisburnell/chrisburnell.com/blob/master/src/js/sparklines.js
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[jgmac1106] had a wonderful discussion with [arush] and other's about this on micro.blog when I had a blind student in my #ds106 class for the first time and got to learn about how blind write for the blind
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[jgmac1106] want to learn how people read? Watch them write
apophys, bkardell, snarfed, aalmazan, [kevinmarks], iasai, beacrea, [eddie], wolftune, [tantek], brian2, KartikPrabhu, swentel, nitot, mvk, seekr, [schmarty], [jgmac1106] and jamesdasher joined the channel; brian2 and friedcell left the channel
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Launching #IndieWeb Textpattern" https://mrkapowski.com/2019/02/launching-indieweb-textpattern.html
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chrisaldrich jgmac1106, did you change your name to Gary? ^^ ;)
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chrisaldrich What is Textpattern?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Textpattern" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Textpattern is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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chrisaldrich Textpattern https://textpattern.com/, is a [[content management system]] that can be used to create a personal site and be part of the IndieWeb.
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chrisaldrich oops wrong syntax apparently
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chrisaldrich Textpattern is https://textpattern.com/, a [[content management system]] that can be used to create a personal site and be part of the IndieWeb.
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Loqi ok
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chrisaldrich Textpattern << https://mrkapowski.com/2019/02/launching-indieweb-textpattern.html
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Loqi ok, I added "https://mrkapowski.com/2019/02/launching-indieweb-textpattern.html" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Textpattern https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=57078&oldid=57077
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[cleverdevil] Wow, blast from the past.
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[cleverdevil] I didn't even know TxP was still around 🙂
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[cleverdevil] I used it for my website way back in the day, and had a lot of fun talking to Dean Allen about it.
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[cleverdevil] 😢
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petermolnar [cleverdevil]: hey; I tried to get your ditchbook working, but it fails on numerous entries on a facebook page export
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[cleverdevil] Ah, I am not too surprised .)
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j605 is there a section on hugo like that?
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Loqi j605: jeremycherfas left you a message 1 day, 10 hours ago: I don't have the technical chops to run my own instance, and so I am happy to use a service and save the webmentions locally.
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[cleverdevil] Happy to help fix [petermolnar_]!
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j605 I read a blog about it but it would be nice to see what is recommended
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[cleverdevil] The scripts really have only been run on two or three different people's data, and it was a game of whack-a-mole each time.
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petermolnar I'm not going to bother you with this, I ended up parsing it in python, writing a bash file with wp-cli commands, it works
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petermolnar just wanted to mention that FB probably broke the export format
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snarfed yeah [cleverdevil] granary uses .get() instead of [] for everything for that exact reason. (apologies for dev talk)
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[cleverdevil] Ah, that's possible 😕
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[cleverdevil] I wouldn't be surprised if they constantly change it in subtle ways to make it useless.
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petermolnar neither would I
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[cleverdevil] If you still have the stack traces around, it would be helpful to know specifically which things were breaking.
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snarfed they're not quite that bad, and they do document and deprecate and give warning responsibly. there's just a ton of stuff, and it does change over time.
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petermolnar the fact that they don't even give you a url to the post is enraging
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[cleverdevil] (And [snarfed], I generally use the same approach, but must have missed a few spots!)
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snarfed petermolnar: yup. they really don't expect or support going back and forth between API objects and user-usable URLs
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petermolnar snarfed: think of the wordpress XML export, that's barely ever changed
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snarfed yup, but the world has
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petermolnar sure, and nothing works anymore :(
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snarfed if you expect the same things to work forever, true! change is the only constant. definitely annoying.
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snarfed also re FB URLs, the main reason is usually app-scoped ids. URLs use global user ids or usernames, which FB doesn't give out over the API
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snarfed -> dev probably
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j605 ok found this, https://indieweb.org/Hugo
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j605 nice, I will go through it :)
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chrisaldrich What is Hugo?
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Loqi Hugo is a static site generator written in Go https://indieweb.org/Hugo
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chrisaldrich j605, you can ask basic questions in chat to get some answers from Loqi, sometimes searching the back history of chat can be useful
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chrisaldrich for example: https://indiechat.search.cweiske.de/?q=hugo
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j605 thanks chrisaldrich
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chrisaldrich j605, in case you haven't heard there's an IndieWebCamp this weekend in Austin (Sat/Sun) that will give you a lot of overview and some general ideas. Should be a lot of remote participation if you're available/interested.
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chrisaldrich What is the next IndieWebCamp?
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Bellingham 2017 was the first IndieWebCamp held in Bellingham, WA 2017-05-04 through 2017-05-05 https://indieweb.org/next_IndieWebCamp
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chrisaldrich That obviously needs updating to /2019/Austin
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chrisaldrich When is the next indiewebcamp?
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Austin 2019 is February 23-24, 2019 in Austin, Texas; the second IndieWebCamp in Austin https://indieweb.org/next_IndieWebCamp
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chrisaldrich 72 hours until chrisaldrich should update https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=next_IndieWebCamp&redirect=no to redirect to /2019/Online
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2019-02-25 1:24pm PST (#6493)
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j605 kinda busy this weekend and probably the next :( But I will try to participate
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j605 converts timings to UTC first :)
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[eddie] j605 if you can't make it, all the videos are generally available on YouTube after the fact as well
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chrisaldrich j605, the introduction material around 10am Austin time may be the most beneficial if you're just starting out. Otherwise feel free to stop in as you can.
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j605 It seems my indieauth is working :)
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j605 I logged into the wiki, yaya
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chrisaldrich j605++ for indieauth and wiki login
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Loqi j605 has 1 karma over the last year
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j605 I should add microformats to other parts of the site as well. I will be checking out Indigo theme and microformats.org
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chrisaldrich What are microformats?
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Loqi microformats are extensions to HTML for marking up people, organizations, events, locations, blog posts, products, reviews, resumes, recipes etc https://indieweb.org/microformats
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Loqi +1
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j605 thinking of having j605.tk/blog/replies that are not in rss for replies. let me see how others have done it. I am going to do it slowly though
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j605 thanks for the links :)
nloadholtes_, snarfed, [tantek], [jgmac1106], KartikPrabhu, electronicmaji, eli_oat, [schmarty], [dave], nitot, wolftune, [grantcodes] and [eddie] joined the channel
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j605 getting internal server error on webmention.io :(
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j605 ok using https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ instead
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aaronpk oh oops. webmention.io won't let you in if you have a path in your URL