#indieweb 2019-03-05

2019-03-05 UTC
edsu, Salt[m], pniedzielski[m], Gregor[m], astrojuanlu[m] and ElMago[m] joined the channel; tw2113 left the channel
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jacky this link keeps appearing on my feeds https://webauthn.guide/
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jacky hmm this requires a "physical" device of sorts
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aaronpk that's an interesting mix of high-level info with code samples all on one page
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aaronpk i started writing this to help clarify its relationship to oauth (and by extension indieauth) https://oauth.net/webauthn/
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jacky there's a demo at https://webauthn.io/
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jacky also no lie
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jacky the site is wordyb
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jacky but still usable
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jacky the site being the one from Duo/Cisco, not oauth.net!
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aaronpk this is another good demo https://webauthn.me/
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jacky oh yeah that's nice
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jacky that flow
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jacky now I'm wondering if I can make fortress do that lol
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aaronpk i haven't been able to figure out the code to get it to work yet but last time i tried was almost a year ago
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aaronpk but yeah your own indieauth server can definitely use webauthn as a way to authenticate you without a password
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ZivBK1 @aaronpk, thank you for the replies. I was thinking of something where I can allow specific people in the network access to content "tagged" for distribution to specific groups, so when they login to a site/app for aggregating feeds from indieweb sites that they have 'subscribed to. Basically a way to replace Facebook 'lists' and Google+ 'circles'.
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ZivBK1 The private URL idea would work, but if it was shared publicly by a member, it's no longer private.
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aaronpk ZivBK1: yep, it's very specific to the site you're using how and whether that's possible. then also it's dependent on the things aggregating feeds to be able to fetch those as the authenticated user. we have some brainstorming on how that should work but nothing very well established yet.
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aaronpk lots of notes here: https://indieweb.org/private_posts
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ZivBK1 I think that this is an important capability to decentralized social networks.
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ZivBK1 That private_posts page is exactly what I am talking about, thank you.
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jacky yeah I'm adding it to my roadmap
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jacky to support webauthn
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jgmac1106 I really want to think about, because I could never build it, connecting the private post with web rings, be able to share with in that circle,
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jacky jgmac1106: that's an interesting angle
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jgmac1106 yeah you already sign in to the webring with your domain, why not have a family ring, an indieweb ring, and be able to share
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jgmac1106 but jacky I also then want you to build me a webring websub walkietalkie app…where you record like 6 seconds of audi but disappears after 12 hours or something
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jgmac1106 as a teacher the private post is a must have…been cheating and using moderated native comments as private posts, we praise over webmentions and criticize using comments that never get approved
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jacky jgmac1106: imma move this to #-dev
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jgmac1106 already find I did
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jacky what is openwebauth
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "openwebauth" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "openwebauth is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jacky I'm trying to understand this thing around openwebauth
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jacky people keep mentioning it when I sneeze the word indieauth on my Mastodon account
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aaronpk i can't find any docs about what it is
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aaronpk has anyone shared a link that describes what it is?
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jacky nope lol
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aaronpk well then
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jacky and I tried to ask z.macgirvin.com a question
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jacky it's a Zot/Zot6/Hubzilla thing, I _think_
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aaronpk the only reference i found was a medium post that describes hubzilla stuff but it didn't seem to talk about a spec
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jacky it was also called "magicauth"
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aaronpk magic--
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Loqi magic has -1 karma over the last year
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jacky lol right
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jacky wow there's like so many "options"
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jacky ran into PortableContacts
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jacky https://web.archive.org/web/20160426223008/http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html
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jacky ngl, it's nice to see other people's replies on my site
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jacky it is making me reconsider a bit of the presentation; it's spacious but might be too much so
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jacky agh I think I found a bug in Mastodon's html markup for mf2
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jacky wow okay
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jacky I figured out why I can't find anything
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jacky https://macgirvin.com/wiki/mike/OpenWebAuth/Home is where things _were_
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Loqi Mike Macgirvin ⚡
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jacky but that redirects to his install of Zot/Friendica (I think)
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jacky which breaks all of the links
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aaronpk 🤦
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jacky FINALLY
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jacky something
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jacky https://project.hubzilla.org/help/en/developer/zot_protocol#Magic_Auth
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jacky wow that took _way_ too long lol
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jacky I'm so less encouraged to try to understand/implement
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aaronpk um that just redirected me to the general about/about page
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jacky ugh that page is horrible
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jacky the anchors are dynamically added
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jacky as well as the TOC to the right
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jacky if you click on "Zot Protocol" to the left it should appear as an item "that being MagicAuth"
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aaronpk the whole thing appears to be js;dr which would explain why it's so hard to search for
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aaronpk wow there's like a one second delay between clicking the link in the sidebar and anything happening on the page
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jacky this is so sad
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jacky b/c for all I know, this could be some amazing stuff
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jacky and I can't get to it because of some weird gimmick
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aaronpk huh reading this is giving me some good ideas of how not to explain an authentication protocol
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aaronpk i just read the magic auth section and it doesn't actually explain *why* any of the pieces are there or how it really works
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aaronpk anyway this is probably getting more on the #indieweb-dev side of things
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jacky definitely
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jacky but I'm tossing the towel in on this one
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jacky https://noti.st/rachelandrew/y8Vv8Z/making-things-better-redefining-the-technical-possibilities-of-css
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[tantek] rachelandrew++
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Loqi rachelandrew has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] This feels on topic, maybe /longevity or /Internet_Archive ? https://gizmodo.com/delete-never-the-digital-hoarders-who-collect-tumblrs-1832900423
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jacky def /longevity
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[tantek] longevity << 2019-03-03 [https://gizmodo.com/delete-never-the-digital-hoarders-who-collect-tumblrs-1832900423 Delete Never: The Digital Hoarders Who Collect Tumblrs, Medieval Manuscripts, and Terabytes of Text Files]
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Loqi ok, I added "2019-03-03 [https://gizmodo.com/delete-never-the-digital-hoarders-who-collect-tumblrs-1832900423 Delete Never: The Digital Hoarders Who Collect Tumblrs, Medieval Manuscripts, and Terabytes of Text Files]" to the "See Also" section of /longevity https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=57718&oldid=54052
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AkyRhO Good morning IndieWeb
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AkyRhO So I'm playing around with Jekyll for the past few days - I grew tired of Wordpress
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AkyRhO I successfully setup my micropub endpoint thanks to Voxpelli's work (https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-micropub-to-github)
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AkyRhO but there's something I seem to miss
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AkyRhO Even though I filled in the MICROPUB_SITE_SYNDICATE_TO env variable
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AkyRhO I don't understand how posting to silos is supposed to work
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AkyRhO J
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jacky https://adamsilver.io/articles/user-interfaces-hiding-stuff-should-be-a-last-resort/
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jacky AkyRhO: So there's a few ways to do it
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jacky https://brid.gy/about#publishing provides some approaches using Bridgy
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jacky AkyRhO: did that help?
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AkyRhO jacky: reading through the doc right now
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AkyRhO jacky: i'm still not sure how to automate the sending of a webmetions to brid.gy whenever a post is created though
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jacky how are you currently building your site?
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AkyRhO it's automatically build whenever i push it on github
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jacky I'm not too sure about the specifics of this particular approach tbh
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jacky I don't know if voxpelli is online but possibly they can help?
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AkyRhO jacky: thanks :) i'll stay around and ask later
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "I made some tweaks to Fortress. Mostly styling but now all of the rel-me checking happens on the fly. By default; it’ll be inactive so Fortress returns pretty quickly. I should have that fixed ..." https://v2.jacky.wtf/post/b77c0fe9-a8c0-4e2e-93ca-5b99a0cdce0c
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jacky https://vanseodesign.com/web-design/development-complexity/
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Loqi The Growing Complexity Of Developing Websites and the Growing Ease Of Using Site Builders
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[jgmac1106] https://blog.moodle.net/2019/commonspub-update/
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jacky wow webm > mp4 for the web
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jacky https://playvicious.social/@jalcine/101699048813804032 vs https://playvicious.social/@jalcine/101699062591219817 on quality alone
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Loqi [Jacky Alciné] I'm glad because I'm like 85% done with this [video]
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[tantek] wow "Long story short, it can take months to create a functional beta version of a federated app."
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jacky yup
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jacky so much plubming required
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jacky it's like buying a plot of land
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jgmac1106 ....well I over simplified but one response was: "now we can show how easy federation will be for MoodleNet using micropub, and microsub, I know folks don't consider DNS decentralized or the web federated but I do"
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aaronpk no need to self deprecate again
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[jgmac1106] I only said over simplified here, not in my message
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aaronpk i mean about caveating the dependency on DNS
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[jgmac1106] .oohhh okay
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aaronpk activitypub also relies on DNS, and Moodle also already does, so that's not really helpful to bring that argument into that realm
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aaronpk no need to bring an argument from one community into another where the argument isn't relevant
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[jgmac1106] good advice, really came down to resources...going to just focus on resource curation
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[jgmac1106] Moodle and MoodleNet are different platforms
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jgmac1106 got hired to make a short video about Mozilla and mobile learnign btu since Mozilla wrapping up on the ground learning support I threw in some IndiWeb for good measure: https://archive.org/details/futureofmobilelearning
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sknebel another question on how other venue finding things work and what people expect: do they handle venues that are large areas? I.e. if you're in the middle of a national park, should that be on the list?
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jacky lol
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jacky I'd think that the smaller the space the higher it should be
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jacky also with recently of last checkin to it
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aaronpk IIRC foursquare does this pretty well. they do keep track of the actual location where the user is when they check in, and create a sort of point cloud internally to represent the size of the venue
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sknebel is that a "yes, want large things" or "no, not necessary, you're only gonna use something more specific"? :D
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aaronpk yes, want large things, but i dont know how they sort them
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aaronpk i like the idea of showing the smaller ones first in a list
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sknebel (background is that for smaller places, "give me all things in a 75mx75m box around me, collapse areas to their center point" somewhat works. but for larger places, a) no point might be in that bounding box despite you being in it, and b) centers stop being useful
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aaronpk yeah sorting by distance is better than using a bounding box
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sknebel your distance to the nearest corner could still be dozens of kilometers
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aaronpk who said nearest corner? ;-)
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sknebel the API and data model that work that way for areas? :D
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aaronpk need a better API and data model then :)
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sknebel you volunteering to host one? :)
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aaronpk noooope i know too much about how hard that is
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sknebel thought so :D
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jacky lolol
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sknebel (playing around with the OSM Overland API)
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aaronpk overpass api?
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sknebel ah, yeah
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aaronpk *whew*
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aaronpk what is overland?
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Loqi Overland is an iOS app for location tracking that can send its data to an custom server https://indieweb.org/Overland
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sknebel sorry, brain mixup
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aaronpk :D
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snarfed ideal venue search would also include some sort of ranking, eg Yellowstone would rank higher than a hot dog cart at a small visitor center somewhere inside Yellowstone
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aaronpk true
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aaronpk also likely ranking places higher if you've checked in before (different use case)
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jgmac1106 if anyone looking to spin up a business with all this stuff SBIR and IES released another 200k call for HigherEd, its due 4/15, I have two grants in the works for the first deadline due 3/20, so can’t write but happy to offer tips: https://ies.ed.gov/sbir/solicitations.asp
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sknebel ok, for some major features (like national parks) Overpass seems to have queries through pre-calculated areas
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sknebel still, even just local places would be a good first step
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[kevinmarks] Foursquare has an idea of containment too
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jgmac1106 one feature you get used to in a good CMS is decent spell check and grammar check, even when I spell check in sublime I miss so much. Probably shouldn’t engage in proofread after publishing but it’s how I roll
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Loqi misses so much too
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jgmac1106 was a problem with my version of FF Dev but a reinstall later and an update and I got browser spell check back
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[schmarty] my browser/computer seems to be set to en_uk for spell-checking and i haven't been annoyed by it enough to change it.
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[jgmac1106] we will call inclusion, and now you can call people leftenant...and you get way more curse words
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] you (like me) need and could use an easy "undo" function to catch such things and quick edit them
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jgmac1106 ohh yes jealous of your undo
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[tantek] hah my theoretical undo. nothing to be jealous of yet.
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[tantek] I admire your willingness to just hit publish. I have the opposite problem, it takes me minutes to post simple notes because I obsess a bit over the wording, grammar etc.
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[tantek] I think you get more done though
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jgmac1106 trade off and I find if you keep the current strong the flow is quite forgiving. No one will criticize you for yesterday’s mistakes when there is new content and mistakes to see today
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jgmac1106 but grammar a known attack vector for women and minorities. I include a no grammar checking policy in my class Code of Conduct
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jgmac1106 I also have way less netowrk reach than you, don’t do analytics but I doubt my post get that much attention
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[tantek] Depends on the post I'm sure
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[tantek] that being said, definitely worth fixing after the fact, especially for your longer pieces
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[tantek] if you ever want another pair of eyes to proofread, I'm happy to help
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jgmac1106 be careful what you wish, for yeah editing my piece on System Agent Network Theory after Cub Scouts, I like the direction that is heading
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jgmac1106 wish GitHub has better proofreading tools with everyone using it for signle site generators now
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[tantek] that's almost the making of a good acronym
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[tantek] just add "Intelligent" between Agent and Network
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[jgmac1106] ooh wow that is great!
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jgmac1106 playing with this idea as well what we are doing is like cognitive apprenticeships….but more agentive apprenticeships: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_apprenticeship need to flesh out my thinking on that more
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jgmac1106 go back and read Collins, A., Brown, J. S., & Newman, S. E. (1987). Cognitive apprenticeship: Teaching the craft of reading, writing and mathematics (Technical Report No. 403). BBN Laboratories, Cambridge, MA. Centre for the Study of Reading, University of Illinois. January, 1987.
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jgmac1106 SAINT Model for Systems of Innovation…I wish innovation wasn’t such a buzzword
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[kevinmarks] https://www.punchlinedesign.net/pun_generator/innovation+systems
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[kevinmarks] that actually found marketecture
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[eddie] The first step to adding some fun to my pretty plain stoic website
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[eddie] https://indiewebcamp.slack.com/files/U433EQWG2/FGPH5AH1P/image_from_ios.jpg
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[kevinmarks] is that a comic book map tile?
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[eddie] Yep!
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[eddie] I’m going with a pop art theme for my light theme
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[eddie] Oops! I think that link only works in Slack. This is the proper link: https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-FGPH5AH1P/image_from_ios.jpg
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[kevinmarks] have you seen https://leaflet-extras.github.io/leaflet-providers/preview/#filter=Thunderforest.SpinalMap
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[eddie] Ohh interesting. I have not. I use Mapbox for my maps
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[kevinmarks] also https://leaflet-extras.github.io/leaflet-providers/preview/#filter=Thunderforest.Pioneer
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[kevinmarks] the full leaflet choices set is fun
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[kevinmarks] also https://leaflet-extras.github.io/leaflet-providers/preview/#filter=Stamen.Watercolor
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[eddie] Haha yeah I used Stamen Watercolor in the past at one of my jobs 5+ years ago
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