#indieweb 2019-03-06

2019-03-06 UTC
jjuran, lmorchard, snarfed, iasai, joba, wolftune, [tantek] and gRegorLove joined the channel
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snarfed
stunning analysis of social networks as products: https://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2019/2/19/status-as-a-service . many insights i'd never heard before. (beware though, almost 20k words!)
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[tantek]
snarfed we have discussed the "performance" nature of social networks before here, many times, which "status" was always the implied goal
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[tantek]
the ICO analogy is a bit of a stretch TBH
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[tantek]
also if status really mattered to all these folks, they'd be putting their proof of work somewhere with more /longevity where they would accrue more value over time (instead of losing big chunks with each site-death)
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[tantek]
so I think the paper is flawed. or rather optimistic. if *only* people were actually seeking status we'd all be in much better shape. instead there's a much simpler model which in the short term looks like status (but isn't). dopamine addiction. only explanation for why they don't actually care about longterm accumulation of status - because they seem to only "care" about shortterm status, which happens to be a side-effect of maximizing short term
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jacky
GPX tracking really requires non-dying devices :( (obviously)
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[tantek]
sounds like a data longevity problem 😉
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jacky
lol well one of my phones died mid transit
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jacky
so it looks like I just 'teleported'
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[tantek]
good times. I feel like that happens in BART under the bay too.
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jacky
oh yeah a _lot_
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jacky
if I ever get the time
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[kevinmarks]
The Eugene Wei piece is not that new, but it has some interesting analogies, and it is written in the pg smug style so will do well in that statusphere.
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jeremycherfas
Good morning IndieWeb
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[kevinmarks]
Paul graham, YC founder
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[tantek]
I hadn't heard it called that yet but I feel I know the tone/style you speak of Kevinmarks
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[tantek]
also statusphere - I found this origin supposedly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Wolfe#Death_and_legacy
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[jgmac1106]
status as ICO sounds a start up pre announcement for my new token based network...but if you want to see status chasing hang out on LinkedIn...there that is the name of the game
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[tantek]
none of the examples in the article are any form of persistent status chasing - it's a massive mischaracterization error
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[jgmac1106]
ohh the article yes I found as unresearched dribble
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[jgmac1106]
but I come at as someone who knows social capital research, doubt few do
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[tantek]
it's all ephemeral status chasing, which doesn't make sense if "status" is your goal (because ephemeral status is worthless except to conmen and grifters)
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[tantek]
however such "ephemeral status" has the much more simplistic explanation of dopamine chasing.
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[tantek]
kevinmarks since you like bigger thought pieces, feel free to "Dopamine Addiction As A Service"
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[jgmac1106]
...all conjecture....but you will see LinkedIn, now that Microsoft also owns GitHub and Lyda.com, make markers of status less ephemeral and more permanent
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[tantek]
[jgmac1106] LinkedIn you mean just as in your hosted "resume" is a form of status? sure. but the posts? they're all ephemera, no persistent status to be gained there.
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[jgmac1106]
as social capital...but that piece ignoring all the historical and cultural effects on social capital is a little grating....buI agree with you tantek not reason why people use social media
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[jgmac1106]
do some do it to increase social capital, yes...and old school cash money capital but not the majority
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[jgmac1106]
when my mother doesn't like I quot facebook its about baby pictures and not social capital
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[kevinmarks]
he's still trying to reduce human interest in other humans to something he can measure and graph.
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[tantek]
[jgmac1106] the only semi-persistent social capital on social media silos is perhaps things like follower count, which is still quite shallow and at this point likely bot-dominated (I assume 90% of mine are bots, based on actual interaction rates with posts)
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jgmac1106
classic piece
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jeremycherfas
Absolute gold, that piece by Maclej, even though I have absolutely no knowledge of Paul Graham.
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[tantek]
since we've gone quite off the social web as status thread -> chat
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GWG
swentel: Working on changing the Micropub endpoint to parse the geo URI into MF2 and store it that way instead of storing it as a geo URI the way it does now. When that's done, it should work perfectly.
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GWG
It states if the geo property is a string, parse it and append a derived microformat
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swentel
makes sense
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GWG
So I figured, why parse it every time? Just parse it once and store it
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swentel
I also don't store the geouri at all
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swentel
it's all mapped to different storage fields in drupal
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GWG
Well, we double store it. IT is mapped to the mf2 property name as a key and the WordPress geodata fields.
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swentel
will be great when that's in the wordpress plugin
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swentel
after that we can start with new steps :)
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swentel
I've been thinking the whole time today about creating a geo indieweb service
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swentel
you login with indieauth
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swentel
and then, in the app, you can select this service to query for geolocation properties
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swentel
still not sure whether it's a good idea, but would be fun to write though
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jacky
good morning IndieWeb
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GWG
swentel: I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with
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GWG
But give me a day or so and I should have the Micropub changes finished and tested. Micropub has a strict unit test requirement.
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swentel
GWG, I guess I would use arcgis.com for getting venus around the location that is send in the q=geo query
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swentel
I have some time this evening, I'll do some experiments
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GWG
swentel: What is the pricing on that?
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swentel
but I just might go for it, would maybe trigger more people to start using 'indieweb' checkins, instead of oys
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swentel
Search and geocode up to 1,000,000 locations for free
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swentel
that's a good start :)
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GWG
swentel: I think the talk the other day convinced me to try using Foursquare as a temporary solution.
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swentel
hmm 1,000,000 (one million) requests per month even
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swentel
at least, for some of the api endpoints
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swentel
If I can figure out if that applies for searching places around a location
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swentel
then I will go for this
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swentel
yep, is for places
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GWG
swentel, I might add that to the 5 providers I already use
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GWG
I just keep hooking them up
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[tonz]
In the course of playing with adding check-ins (now via OYS) to my blog (https://www.zylstra.org/blog/2019/03/adding-check-ins-and-locations/), I was wondering about ‘future destinations’. Like Dopplr.com use to do. For me check-ins are less about where I am and more about making serendipitous meetings possible when I and someone in my wider network are in the same city or area, outside of our usual patterns. Has ‘planning to be in X at date Yâ
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[tonz]
geolocation related discussions? And what were the thoughts / conclusions / efforts?
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swentel
GWG, hmm seems like there are drupal modules that would allow me to query for venus around a location
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swentel
so and it has support for a ton of providers
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swentel
so probably should use that for q=geo first ;)
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jacky
[tonz]: this is something I've put on a backlog
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swentel
[tonz], efforts currently trying to add more location functionality in indigenous
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swentel
both drupal and wordpress will support checkin from the android version
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swentel
and support for querying location/venue based on the app location
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swentel
actually, last one works for just getting name in wordpress already
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swentel
but we're gradually adding more
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[jgmac1106]
!tell tonz I found our CC Global Summit rejection. Caught up in wrong folder
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106]
Trying to decide if I should do #Oer19 or The Summit.
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GWG
Planning to be at is an event usually
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[jgmac1106]
Oooh sorry wrong summit. This was the Creative Commons Global Summit. Not IWS
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GWG
swentel, I look forward to the next phase.
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swentel
GWG, me too, we can get rid of the 'wordpress' or 'drupal' guy, but become the 'location team'
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GWG
swentel, I think I will always be known as the WordPress guy, but I would like to contribute more broadly
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sknebel
[tonz]: I think the closest we have now would be trip posts, e.g. aaronpk posts his flights in advance, and people posting events they're going to be at (rsvps)
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GWG
I want flights
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[Rose]
I want flights too. Though I'll probably future date most posts so they happen once I've landed.
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sknebel
been thinking about expiring private status for things like that. friends can view details about where I'm going to be, the public can't until it is X in the past
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jeremycherfas
I want to have flights to report. :(
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jeremycherfas
Although I'd prefer them to be train rides.
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jacky
sknebel: ooh nice; decaying visibility
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jacky
or transitional visibility
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jacky
I'd actually love that myself
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sknebel
jeremycherfas++ I can sympathize
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Loqi
jeremycherfas has 8 karma in this channel over the last year (27 in all channels)
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[Rose]
I like the sound of that sknebel
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sknebel
I really need to use one of the IWCs or so to push AutoAuth in one reader or something like that, to give private posts a push
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[Rose]
My question: why can't we have train rides? Just like flights? What's stopping us?
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[Vincent]
Nothing! I am looking forward to many unicycle, skateboard posts also 😛
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[Vincent]
If you have the travel info, or you can supply start/end co-ords times etc. The actual “mode” shouldn’t really matter at all.
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[Rose]
That's what I thought!
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jeremycherfas
For posting, absolutely nothing. For actually doing them, cost and inconvenience.
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aaronpk
[tonz]: I absolutely want to see more of that kind of thing! I also post my future events I will be at.
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aaronpk
i think the challenge with that on the indieweb in the past is that in order to be effective there really needs to be some sort of aggregate view of these posts from all your friends
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aaronpk
and we have an opportunity to build that with the new readers now!
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sknebel
200 minutes until vHWC EU!
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Loqi
I added a countdown scheduled for 2019-03-06 7:15pm CET (#6509)
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[Vincent]
Thinking about it:
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[Vincent]
1. You know a friends current location (in theory) from their h-card on their website.
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[Vincent]
2. If your website generated a post when you are at your destination from the journey creation.
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[Vincent]
4. If your destination location, matches theirs. Send them a webmention to let them know you are close by.
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[Vincent]
3. You could then get all the people you are following and their location.
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[Vincent]
Could get spammy without some sort of property to say your happy to meet up/ or not as well.
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[jgmac1106]
Rose aaronpk tracks his trains
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[jgmac1106]
Vincent had this idea for an opt-in search engine that would have done that. My brother in law was going to help build but then got a big contract and his intern had to be moved
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[Vincent]
ha! Just spitballing really, but it feels like there are most of the data and mechanisms in place to already do most of it.
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[Vincent]
you can send an RSVP, you can do a location checkin etc..
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aaronpk
yeah and now there's a place to actually put all that info where I will see it! in my reader
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[jgmac1106]
Only thing I can do is spitball
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[Vincent]
[aaronpk] That feels like a powerful demo to put together for presentations 😉
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[jgmac1106]
Idea [Vincent] was a community based search engine and when you sign in with your domain you select what post types can be crawled
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[jgmac1106]
... But they got a contract to develop a search engine to look up satellite location in real time..so the unbusy Intern got busy
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[Vincent]
that’s a shame. Could have been an interesting project
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[jgmac1106]
Still could be, in terms of my teaching I will eventually need a dashboard. Will have to work in similar fashion. Will want to sort post by user, date, type etc
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[xavierroy]
[tonz] Check out https://github.com/johnholdun/jetset for future destinations
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[grantcodes]
On your idea [Vincent] I have a checkin channel that shows up as a map in together, but because of aaronpks volume of checkins it pretty much just ends up as a aaron map
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[Vincent]
lol
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[Vincent]
[grantcodes] Nice idea though
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aaronpk
i have no regrets
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[grantcodes]
But if you had a server / channel that could store just the last post from each source it would be an up to date map of peoples locations
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[tonz]
thanks [xavierroy], will check it out. [aaronpk] yes I’m thinking along the lines of having a non-public feed that others can load in their reader. Keeping it simple as much as possible from a publishing end (just “[tonz] will be in Charlottetown 5-9 June, Montreal 10 June”, leaving the comparison with someone’s own location on their end.) In the reader seems a good place for it.
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Loqi
[tonz]: [jgmac1106] left you a message 2 hours, 14 minutes ago: I found our CC Global Summit rejection. Caught up in wrong folder
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[Vincent]
You practically have a service for nearby friend notifications already then!
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[Vincent]
That’s pretty cool
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aaronpk
related to this, i just found https://nomadlist.com which is kind of like a modern day dopplr
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aaronpk
and i really want to create this on my own site
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[Vincent]
I like the way PolarSteps uses the map view: https://www.polarsteps.com/
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sknebel
hm, yeah, under the specific audience nomadlist is kinda like dopplr
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[Vincent]
polar steps has a really nice tracking method, where you can tell it when and where you are travelling and it only turns on location tracking between those periods.
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sknebel
so, lets see if jitsi likes Firefox today
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jeremycherfas
Ready; about to join
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Loqi
vHWC EU!
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Loqi
Countdown set by sknebel on 2019-03-06 at 3:55pm CET
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jeremycherfas
Server seems to have gone down
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jeremycherfas
Should this all be in #meta
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TheFerridge
hello!
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TheFerridge
the indieweb plugin for wordpress is frustrating the hell out of me. Does anyone know, isn't it supposed to insert the rel=me stuff into the home page by itself, taking it from the user profile?
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[jgmac1106]
Hello TheFerridge, well if A: you fill out your user profile (wich you probably did) and then add the h-card widget yes it would. If you do not do either of those steps then no it would not
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[jgmac1106]
There is a #wordpress channel or if you have a second we are in vHWC-Europe and you can hop into video chat and let me poke around
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[jgmac1106]
....ugggg I hit the ten gigs of space of my shared host
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[jgmac1106]
I need to pay to upgrade.....not the right month
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[jgmac1106]
ahhh found two gigs in my trash....didn't have it set to delete
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[dmitshur]
I’m omw to HWC NYC, just running a bit late. See ya soon!
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[schmarty]
[dmitshur] great! i am attempting to save a seat for you!
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[dmitshur]
Awesome thanks!
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[dmitshur]
My eta is 15 min.
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[jgmac1106]
!tell eddie nobody came to New Haven so will hop on vHWC Americas
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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swentel
GWG, yay, I can get my location now too :)
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swentel
next up, figuring out if I can get venues with my providers
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GWG
swentel, right behind you friend
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TheFerridge
Thanks for the reply, I figured it out!
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TheFerridge
I have been doing some tests tonight, though, and I gotta ask... are webmentions just really broken at present? Even simple webmentions from tweets don't seem to work very well
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GWG
Can you elaborate? Not sure I understand the problem? Webmentions work for me usually.
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TheFerridge
I have been playing around with just the out-of-the-box plugins on Wordpress
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GWG
Yes. What are you trying to do with Webmentions?
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TheFerridge
And, to see if it works, I've been trying to do a very basic webmention from a tweet. When it did work, only part of the tweet showed up in the comment section
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TheFerridge
This is not through Bridgey of anything
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TheFerridge
bridgy*
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TheFerridge
It's just by entering the URL of the tweet in the bar in the comment section where you're supposed to put it
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TheFerridge
Interestingly, a mastodon toot worked better, in that it showed up as a mention when I put the link into the comment section
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GWG
Twitter isnt marked up with mf2. Without that, it uses the page meta description.
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GWG
Which js
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GWG
Which is not full text
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TheFerridge
Ah I see
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GWG
Happy to help any way I can.
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GWG
I know a little about WordPress