#indieweb 2019-05-13

2019-05-13 UTC
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GWG Is there somewhere on the wiki I can see a list of all the IWCs that occurred, year by year?
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GWG Nevermind, found it amidst the HWC lists.
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[Rose] Good morning all
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jamietanna|wwwjv Anyone got any ideas for https://twitter.com/Cambridgeport90/status/1127803439784824838?s=19 having issues with Together?
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sknebel Good morning
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Loqi good morning
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Zegnat jamietanna|wwwjv: not really, you’d need some sort of logging to see if those posts ever get to the micropub endpoint
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Zegnat Their website isn’t loading for me right now (error 522 from Cloudflare) so don’t know what stack they are using
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jamietanna|wwwjv Zegnat: ta, I've let them know :)
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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ingoogni Instead of a blog roll, would it be considered rude to put up the 'public' part of your 'river of news'?
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jeremycherfas I don't see why.
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jeremycherfas I'm a bit more selective than that, but I have a stream of things I've liked or bookmarked and a few other things on my site.
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ingoogni It would be a selection, yes, as all my email, mailing lists, fora, mqtt data etc also go on the river.
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jeremycherfas I see no problem with that.
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Zegnat I’d be a little careful with the selection. Not everyone may want you to republish their content (both based on expectation, but also copyright).
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ingoogni That was my line of thought too. I'd only publish what's above the fold, if at all. A link is different than a link with content.
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ingoogni Maybe just a linked title.
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GWG Morning
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Loqi happy day
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[tantek] I think Malcolm Blaney's "reader" is publicly viewable on unicyclic mal (sp?)
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[tantek] is that sort of what you mean ingoogni?
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ingoogni [tantek] An example of what I mean https://www.sej.org/aggregator and some background http://scripting.com/2014/06/02/whatIsARiverOfNewsAggregator.html
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[aaronpk] https://stream.indieweb.org is basically my indieweb channel in my reader available at a public URL
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[aaronpk] I keep going back and forth on whether the full posts should be displayed. For long articles I can see an advantage to showing only a part of them, but it's hard to truncate or summarize a short post of <200 characters, so I'm not sure what the right answer is. Maybe I should just do it like indienews and only show the name of the article but include full note text
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[jgmac1106] encourage folks to use p-summary if there show that with read more, if no p-summary display entire article
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[jgmac1106] that way it is up to author
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[jgmac1106] <300 always show full post
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[jgmac1106] why truncate that which is truncated?
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ingoogni out of courtesy to the original author I would truncate to the first two paragraphs and then point to the origin, when dealing with long articles.
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[aaronpk] "Two paragraphs" sounds good in theory but it's not always that simple ;-)
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ingoogni p-summary or a clear indication of a fold would be of help.
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[aaronpk] Using the explicit summary would help, but I'm not sure there are that many examples in reality
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ingoogni two paragraphs if between 200 - 250 characters? There is no reasonable algo for this I think.
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[jgmac1106] thus default to full, the read more function isn't bad on indigenous for Android,
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[aaronpk] (Also truncating while keeping HTML markup is actually pretty hard)
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[jgmac1106] yeah and parapgraphs bad indicator, what if I start with two quotes?
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[jgmac1106] <- is now going to incoude p-summary in everything...well I do on my website post but not Known
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ingoogni could be part of the "prose improvement".
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ingoogni still talking long articles
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ingoogni Title, first /second paragraph,fold, first heading
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[jgmac1106] yes but now you are talking teaching how to write , relying on humans always leads to trouble
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[jgmac1106] ...unless just for your own site, then you can try to remember to follow your own rules
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[jgmac1106] do you start your long articles with a lede or get right to the point?
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ingoogni with a lead / appetiser.
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[jgmac1106] so then if you do just two paragraphs you could run into situation of just sharing your hook/lead/appetizer without central thesis
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ingoogni Yes. In the days of old I crafted my RSS by hand, so I had kind of p-summary as description there. All gone now.
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[jgmac1106] It is still good practice, use a p-summary in your long form so you as author control how your post get truncated (if readers used p-summary)
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[jgmac1106] As I often don't put any of my lede in my p-summary because it some flowery story and not my point
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mblaney I show the start of each post with an option to expand, but I think getting that right is tricky.
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mblaney especially on something like https://unicyclic.com/indieweb which is other people's posts... I could be convinced less is more for that.
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[jgmac1106] it really stinks on Known or WP if I use a feature image, often the licensing information gets picked up as "start of each post" need to include rules to ignore <small> or <figcaption>
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aaronpk yup that's the kind of stuff i'm talking about that makes me really wary of trying to automatically truncate/summarize text
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[jgmac1106] https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/04/20/why-i-chose-known-over-wordpress-indieweb
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[jgmac1106] like that
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ingoogni folding sections of articles is tricky, readers don't expect it as the least of them are used to write / think in outlines where you can just fold complete sections that are of no interest.
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[jgmac1106] In my dream world a reader would show the u-featured image and the p-summary I include followed by "read more" if "p-summary" not there the entire gets displayed. Then I would not have to worry about <small>and <figcaption> getting included
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aaronpk interesting, I just noticed that jeremycherfas' post on stream.indieweb.org is already truncated and has a link "more this way" to the full post on his site
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aaronpk that happened because his list view on https://www.jeremycherfas.net/blog doesn't include the full post text, and stream.indieweb.org doesn't go fetch the full permalink
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[jgmac1106] (off topic) didn't watch the demos yet [aaronpk] even cooler I like your calendar changes been playing with calendars
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ingoogni would be nice if the 'more this way' link would point to the section I have not already red.
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aaronpk I don't think i've seen anyone's site do that before... seems like a really minor inconvenience
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ingoogni regarding summarize and lede, the New York Times does this very nice in their RSS. There is no exact duplicate in the RSS and the actual article
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ingoogni I'm lazy arronpk
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[jgmac1106] ingoogni that is how I write most of my p-summarys, fall back on the 5 W's in 1-2 sentences
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[jgmac1106] I also use it sometimes to display on my article cards on my homepage
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ingoogni Had to look up 5 W's (no native English here). Yes. I think putting these on your article cards is more elegant and you have less duplication
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[jgmac1106] but those are too short for full summary if you are on the article page you get a longer omne
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ingoogni There always is a middle ground.
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[jgmac1106] sorry about that..and I am an old teacher...some times my teacher talk bleeds through...may hear me call my staging server a "sloppy copy"
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ingoogni (being Dutch)
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[jgmac1106] love the fact that there is no word for argumentative writing in Dutch (so I have been told)
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aaronpk alright, stream.indieweb.org is updated to show only the name and summary for articles. no automated summarizing, just using the authored summary if present
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[jgmac1106] how do things end up there anyways? Is it you curating?
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aaronpk it's a bunch of sites I entered, but only posts matching "indieweb" or a few related terms. it's all automatic other than the list of sites I gave it
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[jgmac1106] cool
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aaronpk been a while since I updated the list of blogs tho, probably need to do that
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[jgmac1106] https://github.com/idno/known/issues/2427 I wonder how @gwg handles the excerpt in the WordPress Ui and if this gets a p-summary
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Loqi [jgmac1106] #2427 Add a form field for summary on articles
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[jgmac1106] I did decide I am going to put #myfirstcms on hold and try Perch between now and Summit, goal to have something ready for demo day
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Zegnat ingoogni: I can confirm that not only New York Times does that. Our journalists can write blurbs of several lengths in the editor for their articles, that will be used in different contexts.
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GWG jgmac1106, it does get a summary
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ingoogni Zegnat Many do so, poking in my archives, BBC, Wired. NOS, Rolling Stone do not.
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Zegnat -> #indieweb-chat
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jeremycherfas My stream of blog posts always shows a summary, which is usually the first paragraph with a manually inserted break. If I don't insert a break, I think it truncates at 300 characters. Can't remember.
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jeremycherfas !tell ingoogni You mean you want an anchor to the rest of the post? Fair enough, but a lot of people have told me they just click on the link, and in any case it is usually only one or two paragraphs. Not too much.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] this sounds like dev implementation talk
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[tantek] the read more vs p-summary etc.
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[Rose] Has anyone got a link shortener on their site? Because I would really like to incorporate one
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[voss] [Rose] I think [davidmead] has a link shortener active for his Known installation
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[voss] https://davidjohnmead.com/
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[voss] You can see it in action on his tweets, for example: https://twitter.com/davidmead/status/1114311066979262464
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@davidmead OMG @TheDivisionGame. The complete change to how the chem launcher works has made the heal variant completely unusable in combat for me. Did anyone test this during actual gameplay? #play #xboxone #TheDivision #ux (https://davidjohnmead.com/s/2cUfcN) (twitter.com/_/status/1114311066979262464)
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[Rose] Ooh, nice.
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[aaronpk] Ever since twitter stopped counting characters in URLs I've had very limited uses for url shorteners
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[aaronpk] With the exception of really long/ugly links like Dropbox or google docs, I'd rather link directly to the real link online, so the main use of a url shortener for me now is for the offline use case of writing down URLs on slides or on paper
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[davidmead] [Rose] In my WP instance I used a link shortener to resolve to djm.click, but I couldn’t use that in Known. That shortener is happening either in Known or Twitter (I don’t really know)
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[davidmead] All my WP shortened links are probable broken now due to my import/export woes of moving from WP to Known
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[Rose] I just want to have short URLs for sharing with people verbally or for when I need to write things down. (This is thanks to Saturday's URL session!)
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[schmarty] [Rose] i have one at mmg.re that encodes the datetime of posts in newbase60
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[schmarty] so it's purely algorithmic, i don't have a way of "creating" shortlinks.
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[schmarty] it's the little link emoji icon on my permalinks. an example!: http://mmg.re/50VED3
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[Rose] Nice!
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[Rose] I'd be happy with just my_url.com/datepostwascreated
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[schmarty] mine will forward anything it can't unpack, so that kinda works.
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[tantek] [Rose]++ there are still plenty of use-cases for short links, and they're documented on the wiki
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Loqi [Rose] has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (41 in all channels)
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[tantek] what is a shortlink
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Loqi shortlink is the use of a short-domain to create a link that redirects to (often much) longer link, popularized on Twitter, and used in permashortlinks for indieweb POSSEing https://indieweb.org/shortlink
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sknebel vHWC at https://zoom.us/j/4955358768
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Zegnat Looots of reconnects
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aaronpk don't see you yet Zegnat
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[grantcodes] Who needs shortlinks anyway when you can elongate your link? https://make-my-link-longer.glitch.me
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aaronpk omg
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aaronpk https://make-my-link-longer.glitch.me/show/dlkjfhgaljkdghjtrhgLKAJASDLAhkj1239856fhAHOSfho2ihfp212085g802p3dhlslkdhfp31083g24g21kjehglewkjrhglekjhedlkjfhgaljkdghjtrhgLKAJASDLAhkj1239856fhAHOSfho2ihfp212085g802p3dhlslkdhfp31083g24g21kjehglewkjrhglekjhedlkjfhgaljkdghjtrhgLKAJASDLAhkj1239856fhAHOSfho2ihfp212085g802p3dhlslkdhfp31083g24g21kjehglewkjrhglekjhedlkjfhgaljkdghjtrhgLKAJASDLAhkj1239856fhAHOSfho2ihfp212
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aaronpk 085g802p3dhlslkdhfp31083g24g21kjehglewkjrhglekjhemmgvbo2yu1397vbSAOSUfg2048aksdhASLDASdredlkjfhgaljkdghjtrhgLKAJASDLAhkj1239856fhAHOSfho2ihfp212085g802p3dhlslkdhfp31083g24g21kjehglewkjrhglekjhedlkjfhgaljkdghjtrhgLKAJASDLAhkj1239856fhAHOSfho2ihfp212085g802p3dhlslkdhfp31083g24g21kjehglewkjrhglekjhedlkjfhgaljkdghjtrhgLKAJASDLAhkj1239856fhAHOSfho2ihfp212085g802p3dhlslkdhfp31083g24g21kjehglewkjrhglekjhedlkjfhgal
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aaronpk jkdghjtrhgLKAJASDLAhkj1239856fhAHOSfho2ihfp212085g802p3dhlslkdhfp31083g24g21kjehglewkjrhglekjhe?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=THIS_TOTALLY_UNOBTRUSIVE_CAMPAIGN_NAME&utm_content=some_sad_place_on_the_internet&more_ridiculous_things_in_your_links=because_why_not&maybe_we_can=write_poetry_in_utm_links&utm_utm_utm_utm_utm_param=bye&oh_and_dont_forget_the_facebook_click_id=thanks&fbclid=IwAR0f
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aaronpk gPKx3ebuM5dpH3FG8MlCITeSVkGFFeNlQX31Tiu4pmNvAoi_Sw44Knk
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aaronpk omg sorry
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aaronpk it doesn't even fit in an IRC message
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Zegnat I feel like I saw one of those services, but then on the longest possible domain too
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Zegnat another fun URL forwarder: https://verylegit.link/
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Zegnat Oh, I think I was remembering this one: http://aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.com/AaAAaaAaA
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Loqi Aaron Parecki
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aaronpk oh dear
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aaronpk Zegnat: i can log in to the wiki with that URL :D
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Zegnat Amazing :D
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Zegnat Guess it is an actual 301 redirect, so yeah, why not!
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Zegnat vHWC feels like it is at a cafe, thanks to aaronpk’s background noise streaming
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aaronpk happy to help
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