#indieweb 2019-07-16

2019-07-16 UTC
kensp, [jgmac1106], NatoBoram[m]3 and DanC joined the channel
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DanC photo management is STILL A PAIN. After a fun 4th of July with my in-laws we all agreed to share photos. Somebody sent a link to an iCloud folder. Getting it into google photos is approximately impossible.
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DanC I don't trust myself to manage large photo collections on my desktop.
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DanC There don't seem to be any good photo apps in sandstorm. (mediagoblin might be acceptable)
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aaronpk I feel you. which is why all my photos are still on flickr
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DanC I uploaded ~30GB of iPhoto stuff to flickr when the 1TB free announcement came out. I knew it was too good to be true, but I did it anyway.
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DanC do you pay flickr? maybe I should.
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DanC it's interesting: usually using facebook is easier than thinking, but the main photographer from the 4th of July trip is smart enough not to use facebook.
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aaronpk yeah i've been paying for flickr for years
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aaronpk tbh I feel better about flickr now that they got bought by smugmug
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aaronpk so my priority of moving off has decreased
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DanC I'm not really a photographer; more of a closet librarian.
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GWG I have been paying Smugmug myself for years.
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DanC struggles to remember how to log in to his flickr account...
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DanC phpht. the verification code isn't coming thru
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DanC this drives me bananas: "It's difficult to tell as the Google Photos algorithms are unpredictable and not documented. So, when it does create an automatica album, it's better to carefully review it and decide whether to save it." -- https://support.google.com/photos/thread/213851?hl=en
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DanC tjat
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DanC that's from google support staff themselves
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[snarfed] DanC: that's from a "platinum product expert," ie a power user. not google staff. click on "platinum product expert" for details.
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DanC I thought it said employee...
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DanC oh. it did. but that was a key, explaining the difference between an employee and an expert
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[tantek] TBH I don’t trust Google to handle my photos. Security, privacy etc
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[tantek] I don’t trust that the photos aren’t being used for some sort of Skynet or other AI training etc
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[snarfed] they are. you can opt out if you want, but like most big tech, they gradually add new things that you also have to opt out of
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DanC google is pretty up-front about photos and AI training. In fact, they don't really want you to do your own curation / tagging; they just let you give a few clues to the AI
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DanC my main privacy concern is location history (including photos). But I'm too lazy to do without it so far. I like that they let you limit it to 90 days or whatever. I aim to turn that on.
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DanC security... meaning confidentiality? I don't trust them all that much, but I think they're probably better at it than I am.
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DanC Warren's plan to break up big tech is kinda interesting... content vs. carriage applied to fb, google, etc.
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DanC https://medium.com/@teamwarren/heres-how-we-can-break-up-big-tech-9ad9e0da324c
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DanC not sure splitting google search from ads would work. search doesn't make any money, does it?
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[tantek] Not sure there’ll actually be any noticeable impact, in contrast to say, making net neutrality happen and stick
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[fluffy] Search makes money from ads and if Adsense has to treat google search the same way they treat every other Adsense user that will do a lot to level the playing field.
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[fluffy] And same goes for splitting off, say, youtube. Which also primarily makes money off ads.
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[Michael_Beckwit anything google owned has subplots to make money off of oads
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[Michael_Beckwit ads*
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[Michael_Beckwit they’re an ad company with a browser and search engine among other properties
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[fluffy] Yeah. And I think that if those properties get split off then the calculus becomes different in terms of the revenue sharing and accounting thereof.
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[fluffy] I mean, from a wild armchair speculation perspective. I don’t have any special insider information about this.
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jacky "opting out" is probably still just a user-facing aspect of things, I've opted out of training a lonnnnng time ago and still had my photos tagged up
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petermolnar re photo management: it is indeed a pain. I'm not aware of any CMS systems that could handle even just a few GBs of photo data properly, maybe with the exception of koken, but that needs verification
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petermolnar ( http://koken.me/ )
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prtksxna petermolnar: I know some people who are quite happy with https://piwigo.org
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petermolnar hm
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[jgmac1106] https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1150762332286595075?s=20
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@BriannaWu “It’s just online! Women should ignore the abuse,” they say. Well, it’s not online anymore. A 17-year-old girl was stalked through Discord and murdered by an man. He posted pictures of this horror to Instagram. There’s something deeply wrong with what we’ve built. #ripbianca https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_hUPaoX4AEPQVn.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1150762332286595075)
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petermolnar "I get things are bad. What are we doing to fix it?" While this tweet (where's a link to some deeper article though) is important, it's another one of the "there so many big bad issues out there!" - I wish to see more of "there are so many big bad issues out there, here are solutions and alternatives" instead.
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[tantek] What is Discord?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Discord" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Discord is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] No seriously. Is this that chat thing? That we’ve seen people bridging to IndieWeb channels?
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[tantek] Petermolnar at a minimum have a code of conduct that is enforced
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] looks like that twitter thread debunks the “it was on Discord” narrative
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jgmac1106[m] Instagram and Discord I believe but caution it is like blaming every ride share for when one driver commits a crime. Bad follks everywhere... Just have a platform for reach now
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jgmac1106[m] Discord is a chat voice and chat application popular among gamers that is now being used by other online communities
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jgmac1106[m] They do have strong community guidelines, not a user so can't report on how well they are enforced
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[tantek] Still wrong. Please go read thread (search for media coverage which is more thorough etc) and take it to chat to follow up because this has nothing to do with IndieWeb.
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petermolnar unrelated, sort of chat, sort of dev brainstorming: right now I have most of my content in chronological order. When an entry becomes outdated - say there's a major version change in software with breaking changes - I write a new entry. However, a few month (years?) ago I saw sites where most of the guides are kept with fixed entry points, always just adding the new things on top of the previous one, and I have to say, I like the appr
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petermolnar oach. It would eliminate the occasional misunderstanding of looking at
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petermolnar an outdated version. Is anyone doing something similar here? What do you think about the approach?
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petermolnar ideal examples for these are topic on, for example, mail servers
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Anchakor it's great for how-to articles
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Anchakor news/opinion articles I expect to get outdated, so it's fine as long as the date of publishing is displayed
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[tantek] and the date of updated
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[tantek] what is updated
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Loqi An updated is a post that has been edited by the author https://indieweb.org/updated
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[tantek] petermolnar, I've seen a few different approaches to the "outdated content" problem
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[tantek] I think your instinct to write a new entry is a good one
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sknebel Putting a link "I've written. Something newer about this here:" at the top is an option
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[tantek] regarding software, if your entry refers to the specific version it is talking about, then it helps keep the content accurate since it is scoped
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[tantek] if something is intended to be a generic guide, that's a different kind of post / page
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sknebel I've even seen sites that had some automatic warning a la "this article is 4 years old. Given the topic, it might be outdated"
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[tantek] The Guardian does that with news articles
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[tantek] text on a yellow background with "This article is n years/months old"
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petermolnar it's also a question of housekeeping - should I keep old articles on outdated software? For how long it might be useful for someone else?
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[tantek] here is an example (of mine) of what sknebel is I think talking about re: putting a link at the top: http://tantek.com/2011/061/b1/sxsw-packing-check-list
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] 2011 SXSW Packing and Check List
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[tantek] Note that I also put the year explicitly in the title to emphasize the time-scope of applicability
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[tantek] and when I wrote the next year's one, I went back and put the text "Important: see my updated 2012 SXSW Packing and Check List" and linked to the newer one.
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[tantek] if you're writing HTML, there's more you can do, and I noted a few things in the dev channel for that
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jacky petermolnar: some of those solutions require reckoning a lot of people aren't comfortable
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[snarfed] as another data point, i show updated along with published on my posts, if they ever have been, and i regularly update many of them like wiki pages (aka evergreen)
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[tantek] maybe worth capturing as UI examples on /updated
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[eddie] Yeah, I don't do updated on a lot of my posts, but my IndieWeb project page does (and I plan to do it to some other posts as well)
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[eddie] https://eddiehinkle.com/indieweb has both published and updated at the bottom
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Site updates" https://sizeof.cat/post/site-updates/
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shokunin[m]3 Hey guys
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shokunin[m]3 I came in to congratulate you on being on Hacker News today with the indieauth page
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shokunin[m]3 @tantek: Discord is where I'm typing right now. It's a chat app that's been the fastest growing the past 3 years. It's basically Slack done better. It's very popular among gamers and open source projects.
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shokunin[m]3 If you recall, we setup a bridge between the Matrix chat and our IPFS & Protocol Labs Discord, which you can find on http://permaweb.io/discord
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shokunin[m]3 There are literally tens of millions of people who use Discord, exactly the same way as Slack. Nothing weird or shady about the product. It's super unfortunate that some people are toxic there though, and really sad what happened in the story above.
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[tantek] hey shokunin[m]3 - yeah, we quickly realized that story was not really specific to Discord, more like any kind of chat / txt / messaging, and even then as an aside (not central). No disrespect intended to Discord.
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[tantek] And yes, the IndieAuth being on HN is certainly getting a lot of coverage / discussion and a bunch of twitters.
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shokunin[m]3 Indeed!
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shokunin[m]3 I just released http://permaweb.io btw
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shokunin[m]3 To be like a landing page to the DWeb for newbies
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shokunin[m]3 Gonna have to add indieauth there I guess
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Indieweb principles" https://sizeof.cat/post/indieweb-principles
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