#indieweb 2019-08-28

2019-08-28 UTC
Jeena, [grantcodes] and benharri joined the channel
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benharri what's the +v for?
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aaronpk What is chat names?
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Loqi Chat names is a list of chat regulars sorted by nickname, with their website and usual timezone(s) https://indieweb.org/chat-names
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benharri ahhh right!
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benharri thanks :)
awolf, [fluffy], vika_nezrimaya, [schmarty], patterson, KempfCreative, gRegorLove, KempfCreative1, tbbrown, jhsheridan, [Michael_Beckwit, kensp, kensp1, jihaisse, cweiske and tomasparks joined the channel; AXEL-LeeDiscord[ left the channel
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://v2.jacky.wtf/post/need-mobile-indieweb
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tomasparks I'm may be going offline so I wondering what is the best way to grab of copy of the indiewb wiki?
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cweiske there is a github repository with the content
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tomasparks found the git repo
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tomasparks downloading.......
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Arye hi
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tbbrown
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jamietanna[m] Bob1 thanks, I'm glad to hear it helped get you going with your implementation!
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jamietanna[m] Bob1 was https://lobste.rs/s/k0jbek/setting_up_micropub_server_for_www_jvt_me#c_yfagyc your reply? If not, looks like that blog helped two people!
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[tantek] China using fake accounts on social media to friend people to social engineer their spycraft: https://boingboing.net/2019/08/28/chinas-using-linkedin-to-rec.html
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[snarfed] #-chat ?
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[tantek] nah, on topic for /why. And the problem of fake accounts being a vuln in silos is something we can do *much* better on the IndieWeb
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[snarfed] i guess. "social media is bad in general" is really broad. personally i'd follow this channel less (sadly) if it expanded to include lots of that. maybe that's just me
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[tantek] it's specifically the context of what IndieWeb can / does do better
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[tantek] but yeah, I keep the "bad in general" without that context to chat / wiki criticisms
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[tantek] I think that's the kind of key user-centric "why indieweb" discussion that's relevant / important here
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[tantek] more than "namespaces" anyway 😉
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[snarfed] sure. i'm all for why indieweb here. as an example, that article still feels mostly general "social media is bad," so i guess i'd still vote #-chat, but that's just me. not a big deal!
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[tantek] it's kind borderline dev / brainstorming new(ish) features that would work well/better on the indieweb
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[tantek] specifically, one of the key problems we're working on: discovery
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bekomotion[m] Are you talking about discovery of IndieWeb in itself or… IndieWeb users?
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[tantek] IndieWeb discovery features could do a better job by surfacing people you might know through others you interact a lot with to begin with (via your Webmentions etc.)
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[tantek] what is discovery
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Loqi Discovery is a variety of methods for finding content, websites, communities, or people to follow on the web including search, directories, recommendation engines, tags, or other serendipitous methods https://indieweb.org/discovery
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[tantek] discovery of IndieWeb in itself is more about outreach
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bekomotion[m] I see
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[tantek] e.g. in the mid 2000s we were developing a way for bloggers to confirm or not if someone was "real" by whether anyone had actually *met* them, and there were crawlers that indexed who had "met" someone or not (via XFN rel=met links)
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bekomotion[m] Hm. I find myself to check source of websites for webmentions nowadays. I wonder about a browser extension that could tell me.
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[tantek] that's the kind of thing that social media silos have completely neglected
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[tantek] what do you mean to "check ... for webmentions"? on a post they should "just" show up as comments, likes, etc.
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[tantek] if you're wondering if a post will accept webmentions, they often have a UI / form field at the bottom where you can submit your own links
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bekomotion[m] That is not necessary true. It's opinionated whether one even offers a form _and_ displays mentions to the public.
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bekomotion[m] I discovered several blogs over the last days like this. Even one that also has an x-clacks-overhead 😁
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[tantek] I feel like for most folks, if there's no visible evidence a site cares about them, then don't bother going out of your way. Otherwise if you wanted to post about some other site, you should do so regardless of whether they accept webmentions or not.
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[tantek] Your CMS should automatically handle the discovery/sending on your behalf. Your CMS should be that "browser extension" that tells you automatically if a website accepts them or not (and whether your mentions were successfully sent when you post).
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bekomotion[m] *shrugs* just my user experience so far. I guess the implementation level for various CMS / installation differs wild
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[tantek] there's a broad spectrum of user experiences for sure
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[tantek] good idea to submit feature requests when you find various CMS / installations that don't support that kind of automatic discovery / sending / confirmation
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bekomotion[m] Don't think so. Why should I bother about foreign systems? I'm just "lucky" that I went with Wordpress back in 2004 and now it's everywhere so it's sort of my own food ;) The plugins available for this work okay. Still working out the kinks but I'm getting there.
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[tantek] Definitely worth providing feedback on the plugins in the indieweb-wordpress channel!
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bekomotion[m] I've a feeling that I bugged the main contributors enough by now xD
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GWG likes being bugged
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bekomotion[m] *brb
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[tantek] GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 18 karma in this channel over the last year (145 in all channels)
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GWG I hope people respect that I can't do it all, but I am generally responsive
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bekomotion[m] Ah… sorry, doesn't ring a bell [yet].
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[manton] Anyone have experience with domain name reselling? I feel like Micro.blog's story around encouraging people to have domain names isn't really complete until I let someone buy a domain name right in Micro.blog. I've been experimenting with Name.com's API for this, but happy to hear other suggestions!
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rauhl can one change one’s chatname?
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[snarfed] tries to remember if benwerd et all ever added domain reselling to hosted known
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[snarfed] rauhl https://www.google.com/search?q=irc+change+nick ?
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[benatwork] Did not :(
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[snarfed] cool. also unrelated, "benatwork" now seems ironically incorrect...? 😎
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[snarfed] (more importantly, congrats and good luck! i'll definitely aim anything fitting your way)
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[KevinMarks] Google have an api for it. Did Will Norris work on that or am I misremembering?
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rauhl ah, i didn’t even think to try IRC commands in the web UI. silly me
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[manton] Thanks! That’s interesting, I had forgotten Google had domain registration now.
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[tantek] snarfed, I keep expecting someone to ask him if he comes from a land down under
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[snarfed] heh
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jacky chatty day
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jacky [manton]: I'm actually working on this for koype hub. I'm leaning on dnsimple (they have a simple-enough api flow for it) so I just to work on the UX for it
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[snarfed] whoa jacky really? you're planning a hosted version?
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jacky yup that's the long term goal :)
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jacky https://get.koype.net
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[snarfed] cool!
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jacky there's no way I can really get it into people's heads the way I want to without doing that tbh
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jacky [manton]: for reference, this is what it looks like: https://developer.dnsimple.com/v2/registrar/
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[snarfed] definitely talk to manton and benwerd for their thoughts and advice, obviously
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jacky I'm lightly lifting ideas from their blog ;)
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[snarfed] and hopefully you don't plan or need to make (much) money off it
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[snarfed] talk to them! i'm sure they would. it'll save you from learning at least a few things the hard way, probably many
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[snarfed] learnfromhistoryorrepeatit++
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Loqi learnfromhistoryorrepeatit has 1 karma over the last year
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jacky lolol
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[fluffy] I was thinking of also offering Publ hosting but I don’t really want to get into that business for a bunch of reasons.
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[snarfed] fluffy++
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Loqi fluffy has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (30 in all channels)
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[fluffy] so instead I’m focusing more on trying to make easy-to-follow guides for deployment onto other hosting providers. which reminds me I need to try out nearlyfreespeech.net for something, since it looks like they’d support Publ and be pretty cheap
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[tantek] that sounds familiar. I think someone suggested nfsn as a new webhost at IWC Austin, and when I asked for their personal experience, they didn't have any, then when I asked who they know is using it, they didn't know, so I was like ok then
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[tantek] (devops is not enough of a fun hobby for me to be the first to explore a "new" hosting provider that no one I know nor anyone in the community is actively using / experience with)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Publ v0.5.3, Authl v0.2.2" http://publ.beesbuzz.biz/blog/743-Publ-v0-5-3-Authl-v0-2-2
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[vendan] They go back quite a while, but they are a shared web host
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[vendan] I'm just to used to having a full VPS at this point
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[fluffy] yeah I know about nfsn from someone who actually uses it, and he was considering using Publ
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[fluffy] and shared hosting still has its uses for a lot of people
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Making it easier to determine the kind of content for Indie posts" https://www.jvt.me/posts/2019/08/28/content-kind/
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[fluffy] Only reason I’m using a full VPS is because I couldn’t find any turnkey email hosting that worked the way I wanted it to so I figured, I’ll just host it myself. And then when Dreamhost started to get annoying to deal with, I figured, y’know, I have this largely-unused VPS.
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[vendan] hah, I was on dreamhost for a while
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[vendan] first web host, actually
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[vendan] but they got to be really stingy about a bunch of stuff, and I was starting to get interested in stuff like Go
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[fluffy] Yeah I moved to dreamhost from self-hosted on my home DSL connection. 🙂 They were good for a while, until they weren’t.
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[vendan] and Go really doesn't mesh with shared hosting
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[fluffy] One reason I built Publ in Python was that Dreamhost would have been able to support it… but then I got on some sort of pkill shitlist and I couldn’t even complete my `pipenv install` step without it dying on me.
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[fluffy] And the lack of control and accountability got to me.
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[fluffy] Especially when every support request I made got a response of “we don’t support that, have you considered using WordPress instead?”
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[vendan] rofl
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GWG You should say what they say when IndieAuth for WordPress doesn't work
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Loqi yea
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[fluffy] What do they say?
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[fluffy] “We don’t support that plugin?”
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[snarfed] interesting twitter UI quirk, maybe new in new twitter: RTs render an "RT @author: ..." prefix inline with the original tweet, making it look like it was part of the content. (and also elide the original tweet content.) eg https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1166766706670202880
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@paulg RT @katgleason: 100 percent of users who were paying us 77 months ago still pay us today the sample size is, of course, small but damn t… (twitter.com/_/status/1166766706670202880)
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[snarfed] ^ yup that
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[snarfed] heh, granary has been doing the same thing pretty much forever. (except eliding.) clearly they were inspired by that. i take full credit. 😎
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KartikPrabhu snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 30 karma in this channel over the last year (76 in all channels)
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KartikPrabhu look weird though that the "RT @author .... " looks like part of the original post which it wasn't
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[snarfed] exactly, hence my "making it look like it was part of the content"
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jgmac1106[m] Snarfed seeing same thing on the threader apps
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jgmac1106[m] I am going with a GDPR compromise.
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jgmac1106[m] With the massive cPanel/Installatron price hikes an IndieWeb Panel where folks could choose between services or connect an engine.... Be neat for hosting providers
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jgmac1106[m] manton if you can even connect and get into the Installatron of hosting or domain companies like name.com.....but with subscription
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jgmac1106[m] Click to install publ, click to insstall Koype, Publ, Drupal, WordPress, Known, webmention app, etc all in one places ... dreamy
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KartikPrabhu [manton]: IIRC there is someone from GoDaddy who is interested in Indieweb and often attends the SF HWC. I am blanking on their name/IRC name at the moment. I think [tantek] can recall
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[manton] jacky: That's interesting you mention DNSimple because that's what I use for all my domains, and one reason I picked them was the API. But I wasn't sure it would work for reselling, because there's a monthly fee on DNSimple with a limited number of domains. So I think if I registered 100 domains for people, I would need to pay an extra subscription to DNSimple. Does that seem wrong?
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jacky for me, I didn't expect many people to use the in-built domain sign up flow tbh
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jacky checks pricing
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[fluffy] yeah I’d love that sort of one-click install thing. A Publ ‘one-click’ thing would really just be setting up an empty pipenv/virtualenv with the right frontend server routing to it though, and probably a default `app.py` and some filler content/templates. It’s the frontend routing that’s the annoying part to set up, at least manually.
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jacky yeah it's def a bit more
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jacky I currently use the professional plan with them for black.af as part of client work
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jacky and was planning to push koype hub under that
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jacky https://dnsimple.com/pricing
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jacky it'd be $215/mo with DNSimple tho on professional
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jacky not cheap at all but comes with a lot more support and redundancy features
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jacky I budgeted for about 20 domain names
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[manton] Thanks. Hmm... I'm still on the old DNSimple plan they don't offer anymore, so I actually sure on the pricing and features.
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[manton] Cool. Another provider I looked at was OpenSRS (run by Tucows). I started checking Name.com because I remembered someone from Name.com was at IndieWeb Summit once.
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GWG I have an enom reseller account I never use
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jgmac1106[m] Yeah values, apis, and price point being the same name.com been a Summit Sponsor last few years
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[tantek] confirmed speaking at WordCamp US: https://2019.us.wordcamp.org/session/the-independent-web/
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[tantek] oops meant that for meta
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