#indieweb 2019-10-10

2019-10-10 UTC
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aaronpk i'm really on the fence about this though, because the calendaring use case shouldn't be ignored. but at the same time, authoring an event with the timezone included is actually kind of a challenge
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[tantek] Don’t make users think about the timezone because doing so adds more work and it’s something even smart people get wrong all the time
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[tantek] about *entering
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[tantek] I have so many emails from management across companies mistakenly saying PST when they meant PDT or vice versa
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aaronpk right that's why i'm leaning towards floating times
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[tantek] Yup this is why I do this
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aaronpk I realized I recently posted a bunch of travel plans in the wrong timezone because I was creating posts for trips that happen after the DST change, and also that span both europe and US DST changes which are now on different dates
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[tantek] Yup that’s another good example
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[tantek] A while ago I decided my “CMS” would auto default everything to Pacific Time zone (yes it handles US DST switch automatically)
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aaronpk so i'm leaning now towards a system where the timezone and absolute time is not the primary focus. especially since the majority of the time, the consumers of event time data are people
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[tantek] Exactly!
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[tantek] Or rather the people consumers are more important than the computer consumers
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[tantek] You can write code to do both well. It’s tricky but possible
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[tantek] Eg my published dates etc have time zone offsets
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aaronpk I do have some software that needs to know the absolute times of things, such as my website showing when I am in the middle of a flight, or an "add to calendar" button that works when the event is in a timezone other than the current one
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[tantek] Which I wrote code to do, tested and can now ignore as a user
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aaronpk but since those cases are the minority, it seems fine to require additional software to do the hard parts of dealing with the timezones
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[tantek] Precisely
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aaronpk as long as the event has a location and local time, software can figure out the absolute time, even if that's kind of a challenge
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[tantek] Exactly
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[tantek] Anyone here have a website that may go offline when PG&E cuts power to various Northern California neighborhoods?
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[jgmac1106] yes
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[tantek] And if so, do you have or are you considering an indie power solution?
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[jgmac1106] https://twitter.com/_/status/1181810158000697345
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@lindner Expect outages of my #indieweb @withknown host http://1500wordmtu.com due to @PGE4Me power cuts. My low-power home server, solar panels, and batteries are pretty solid. ISPs? Not so sure.... https://gilligan.fandom.com/wiki/Electric_Generator (twitter.com/_/status/1181810158000697345)
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[tantek] What is electricity
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "electricity" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "electricity is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk yess time for packet routing over ham radio to avoid the need for ISPs
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plindner[m] :)
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plindner[m] Grid power going out at 8pm
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plindner[m] Need to get that Known -> SecureScuttleButt connector going...
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[tantek] How would that help?
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plindner[m] Also need to finish my "publish to IPFS" plugin so I can be independent of a single host.
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[tantek] They use the same pipes
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[tantek] That’s assuming anyone will rehost for you though
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aaronpk I thought SSB used peer to peer wifi/networking
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plindner[m] SSB followers would be able to consume a feed and have it on their own machine.
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[tantek] SSB still goes over the Internet. Just at a lower layer
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plindner[m] Ah, yes.
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[tantek] No ISP. No SSB
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aaronpk I mean if you were in physical proximity to the SSB web server then you wouldn't need an ISP
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[tantek] Sorry I thought that was obvious. Got to question all the dweb marketing hype
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aaronpk I thought that's how it works on boats when there is no ISP at all
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[tantek] If you’re somewhere where the power will be shut off, you generally in a non-densely populated area. Eg no mesh
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aaronpk in my mental model, that is the entire purpose of SSB, to work when there is no internet
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plindner[m] Right. physical proximity works: https://github.com/Happy0/ssb-bluetooth
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[tantek] Hah no
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[tantek] Right and the places where power is being shutoff are physically non proximate
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[tantek] Because they’re surrounded by dry trees and brush and stuff
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plindner[m] yeah, no line of sight really where I'm at.
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[tantek] Maybe this will put (appropriate) pressure on more urban migration (and more housing etc)
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[tantek] peer to peer physical layer is useless when you’re not physically proximate
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[tantek] You’d have better luck with a POTS landline and dialup ISP :)
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[tantek] Note: POTS lines stay up even when power is shut off
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[tantek] You just have to self-power your local equipment
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[tantek] So dig out your 56k POTS modems!
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[tantek] It’s back to the 90s baby!
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[tantek] (Be sure to post a recording of it connecting :)
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plindner[m] You can reach me at {...!rutgers!umn-cs!lindner}
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[tantek] There was also the old FIDONET protocols which were peer to peer direct across POTS modems in practice
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[tantek] No dialup ISP needed
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plindner[m] Fido had a dns mapping iirc
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[tantek] Would make sense. Then when a message reached a Fido node that was also internet connected, it could route the message
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plindner[m] Also don't forget about https://disaster.radio/
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plindner[m] sudo mesh folks behind that one
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[tantek] Anyway aaronpk don’t let your mental model be too impacted by all the dweb marketing hype
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plindner[m] oh look ssb support
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[tantek] In practice majority of it all still depends on a fully connected internet, and some of it may work for everyone in the same campsite
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plindner[m] yeah, we have a long way to go on creating alternate transports
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[tantek] Nah we had alternate transports in the 1980s & 1990s. People just abandoned them
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[tantek] Paging [dariusdunlap] - how’s your power / server / connectivity situation?
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plindner[m] heh, true. (re)creationg then.
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plindner[m] https://tomesh.net/ is making some good progress last I looked.
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aaronpk I feel like I might finally be close to being able to serve my website from a wifi hotspot that I wear around my neck at the next IWS
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[tantek] plinder at least there’s plenty of people around who remember how things worked in the 1980s and 1990s
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[tantek] I’ve literally kept all my modems
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ShokuninDiscord[ Is the meetup today tantek?
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dougbeal| aaronpk: would you run it locally, or just cache it?
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aaronpk dougbeal|: TBD
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aaronpk but the goal is that with no internet connection, someone could connect their phone to the wifi hotspot it broadcasts, and view my website
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[KevinMarks] this was a design goal for zeroconf, though picking a hotspot may be extra there
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[tantek] When is next hwc?
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Loqi Join us for an evening of IndieWeb personal site demos and discussions! Any questions? Ask in the chatroom! More… https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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[tantek] Uh not helpful Loqi
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[tantek] When is next-hwc?
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Loqi Join us for an evening of IndieWeb personal site demos and discussions! Any questions? Ask in the chatroom! More… https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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[tantek] Still not helpful
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[tantek] Shokunin not today, see IndieWeb.org/events (or subscribe to it in your calendar!)
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[tantek] hmm apparently wind-driven power outages possible in SF too! https://twitter.com/SF_emergency/status/1182086052590145536
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@SF_emergency Unrelated to the public safety power shutoffs, #SF may experience local electric outages due to high winds tonight. Tips: pack extra batteries for flashlights & stock up on dry foods.#StayConnected and check on your family, friends and neighbors! For info: http://sf72.org https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGec_zwUcAAXRbU.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1182086052590145536)
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[tantek] Seems like if that were to happen, something like this would be worth setting up on the roof: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ramsond-Atlas-3-000-Watt-Wind-Turbine-Generator-LM3500/307565908
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[tantek] Or a full dual wind/solar kit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V7B5WQZ/
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plindner[m] aaronpk: a good starting point would be http://librarybox.us/ which installs onto widely available battery powered wifi hardware.
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[jgmac1106] plindner I gotta bunch of torrents seeding right now, I couldn't get all the ipfs parts running for Known yet, but I am hopeful for that direction
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[jgmac1106] well best of luck and let's hope no fires
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ShokuninDiscord[ @tantek: "2019-10-16 from 18:30-19:30: IndieWeb meetup!" but below says " Moved to Tuesday, October 15 – 19:30 - 22:00 CET (GMT+1)". Gonna assume tuesday is only the german meetup?
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[tantek] Shokunin where?
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ShokuninDiscord[ that was on the link above from loqi
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[tantek] yes there is a section for each city!
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[tantek] hopefully that's clear from the headings and separators?
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[tantek] oops the SF time is off by an hour - fixing
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[tantek] https://indieweb.org/events/2019-10-16-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco
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[jeremycherfas] I had to put a US-Europe flight into Fantastical yesterday but I didn’t think to check it’s natural language processing to see whether it got local times from location. I used time zone codes because I know them. Next time.
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[pawel_madej] I am not sure if sharing here my first indie developed iOS app will be spam or not? 😄
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[tantek] How is it IndieWeb?
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[tantek] Might be better for the informal IndieWeb #indieweb-chat channel
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jeremycherfas I can now confirm that while Fantastical understands timezone codes perfectly, it does not process the location to get a timezone.
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jeremycherfas In other news, good morning IndieWeb
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[jgmac1106] good morning all
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GWG Morning
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Loqi good morning!
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[jgmac1106] gwg did you get any pics during keynotes, I was busy notetaking and forgot
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GWG No, I was
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GWG not taking pictures
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[jgmac1106] yeah I have no demo time pics, either, something to remember for next year, identify photographer for each major session
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[jgmac1106] also no pics of Tiara since she worked in quiet room, on hunt for keynote, Tiara, and demo pics
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GWG Do we have something like that on the general advice for IWCs?
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[jgmac1106] no but gonna add it
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GWG [jgmac1106]: By the way, how did the video turn out?
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[jgmac1106] that it is today's task, will check out here are my photos: https://jgregorymcverry.com/iwcnyc2019 will add to wiki after giving folks first right of refusal and checking spellings
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] IndieWebCamp NYC 2019 https://jgregorymcverry.com/photos/iwcnyc2019/iwcstickersnyc2019.jpg
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[tantek] Re photos at IWC -> meta please
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jesse1010 is it better to have a dedicated m.domain.com mobile site vs css responsive?
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[Rose] I personally don't think so
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[grantcodes] Almost always responsive
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[jgmac1106] Yeah why mantain two sites and double the work. Raises chances of stuff breaking
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[Rose] Hello Andree!
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[Rose] Migrating a discussion on autocategorising posts based on post kind from WordPress:
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[Rose] I would like to do this because in general photo posts and notes are something I want in one stream together (personal), articles in another, and the rest is less important, so it wouldn’t need to be categorised.
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aaronpk so I auto-categorize posts (tho I call them "channels" instead of "categories")
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aaronpk because i want a subset of posts on my home page (articles, notes, photos, checkins that contain text or a photo)
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aaronpk and then i have a few channels/categories for other things like: replies, bookmarks, travel posts, likes, etc
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[Rose] I think that’s what I want too, I may propose a session at Brighton on taxonomy
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[Rose] (Not to be confused with taxidermy, we can skip that session)
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[tantek] I suppose my point is that there are other aspects for those "implicit" categories that you don't need (actually don't want because it's DRY violating) explicit "Category" or "Tag" labels on posts that duplicate the implicit info
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[Rose] What is dry?
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Loqi DRY is an acroynm for Don't Repeat Yourself https://indieweb.org/dry
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aaronpk i disagree, which was an intentional design decision in my site
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aaronpk my channels are explicitly not strictly mapped to post types
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aaronpk so i can add posts to any channel at any time, there are just some default rules that sort them for me
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[Rose] I would like for people to be able to filter both to say “photo” posts, but also everyrhing I consider person which by default would include photo posts unless I explicitly put them in another category/channel/stream.
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[Rose] *personal
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aaronpk this does sound like a good session :)
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[Rose] I’ll write it up on my profile
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[Rose] https://indieweb.org/User:Rosemaryorchard.com#Session_Ideas
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[Rose] Voilà, updated.
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[Rose] (For anyone wanting to borrow a session idea please feel free to go ahead, they’re on my profile for sharing)
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[tantek] link to it from your Project Goals entry!
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[tantek] going to meta ...
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[Rose] Project goals are not allowed until Monday, too many non IndieWeb things to do right now
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[manton] [snarfed] I finally disabled the Facebook support. https://www.manton.org/2019/10/10/saying-goodbye-to.html
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Loqi Saying goodbye to Facebook cross-posting
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[tantek] wow
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[tantek] yeah their latest moves of explicitly profiting off of misinformation advertising makes them an actively harmful agent against democracies
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[schmarty] manton++
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Loqi manton has 21 karma in this channel over the last year (37 in all channels)
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jbove manton++
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Loqi manton has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (38 in all channels)
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[tantek] silo-quit << https://www.manton.org/2019/10/10/saying-goodbye-to.html
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Loqi Saying goodbye to Facebook cross-posting
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.manton.org/2019/10/10/saying-goodbye-to.html" to the "See Also" section of /silo-quits https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=65399&oldid=63248
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