#indieweb 2020-03-06

2020-03-06 UTC
[tantek], [snarfed], [benatwork], joshghent, [Michael_Beckwit, KempfCreative, KempfCreative1, nickodd, drkokandy, wolftune, minoru_shiraeesh, mgh, Kaja_, teriko[m], eeril and cweiske joined the channel; nickodd left the channel
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Zegnat
Good morning IndieWeb!
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eeril[m]
Goodmorning!
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Loqi
morning!
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eeril[m]
I've just launched my indiewebsite, ezerel.com, feeling kinda exited to be here 😁
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sknebel
Good morning Indieweb!
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Ruxton
congrats eeril[m]
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[g33kcentric]
Interested to know what the gems are about eeril 🙂
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eeril[m]
essentially, gems are "likes" and time-gems are "strong likes". For example a weekly-gem is something you get only every 7 days, so when you really really really like something, you have a way to express it.
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eeril[m]
its a concept I'm playing with, the goal is to create a new way to express myself. A way to say "this is very attention worthy" without typing "this is very attention worthy"
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[g33kcentric]
Ohhh thats quite cool, thanks!
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[jgmac1106]
morning all, hope everyone has a wonderful Friday
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dmbaturin
It's not the worst friday I've had, for sure.
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[tantek]
As “IndieWeb” can be individualistic at times, I think concepts like “collective consent” are worth explicitly exploring in our work and innovations to counterbalance that: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/when-one-affects-many-case-collective-consent/
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[jgmac1106]
I need to dive deep into that piece, looks awesome
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[jgmac1106]
we do some collective consent, at the organizers meetings, and anyone who organizes two events can attend an organizer meeting
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[jgmac1106]
thx for share, really good piece
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dmbaturin
Are there any practical mechanism proposals for collective consent?
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[jgmac1106]
[tantek] invite the author to IWC London: https://www.mozillapulse.org/profile/2467
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[jgmac1106]
dmbaturin I find conversation works well
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[jgmac1106]
but sometimes doesn't
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@holly
Q: if people are so interested in audio content, why do no social media apps except WhatsApp have an audio-only option? Everywhere does video but try uploading a voice clip to Twitter or FB, you have to host it elsewhere
(twitter.com/_/status/1235935890863775744)
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[jgmac1106]
hosting elsewhere, I like using Bridgy to do this you just have to remember to remove the u-audio tag and put it in e-content
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[jgmac1106]
...oops guess devy
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[jgmac1106]
IndieWeb channel of saying same thing, "I am glad we have tools that allow me to share audio clips from my wesbite"
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joshghent
Hey all! Thought I'd join you lot as I am getting into the indieweb stuff as I already selfhost a lot of my own things. I am wanting to setup webmentions and somehow add comments to my statically generated blog (ideas welcome on that one)
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cweiske
what are comments
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Loqi
Comments are displayed in the context of an original post, and may be a mix of syndicated reply posts from other sites received via Webmention, as well as locally created comments https://indieweb.org/comments
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joshghent
Thanks cweiske, I think I'll hook up the git comment system and HN/Reddit
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cweiske
some people re-render their static site when a comment comes in
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cweiske
others bake the comments into their site upon building, and fetch new ones via javascript
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joshghent
yeah think I may just do re-renders and host some sort of docker bot to do it
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joshghent
see what is easier
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[schmarty]
webmention.io will send notifications to webhooks, which can be used to collect mentions after they've been verified. i use this to bake wm display into my hugo-based site. https://indieweb.org/webmention.io#Sends_Notification_of_Valid_Webmentions_via_Web_Hook
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[datashaman]
webmentions calls the deploy webhook in zeit for my site; the deploy process calls webmentions to get the latest ones that have been added and renders
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vasilakisfil
hey folks what do you think about Jitsi ? I mean from indieweb/open protocols perspective
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[tantek]
hey vasilakisfil, protocols questions are more likely to get answered in the # indieweb-dev channel
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[jgmac1106]
Hey for folks that are always wondering what to "blog" about welcome to join us on this thirty day "learn something" challenge: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2020/03/06/hey-edu106-here-is-a-video-describing
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Loqi
[Greg McVerry] Hey #edu106 here is a video describing our "Learn Something" project for this month: https://jgregorymcverry.com/videos/EDU106LearnSomething.mp4 (captions coming soon) If any #clmooc or #netnarr want to join us, just pick something, learn about it, ...
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[chrisaldrich]
Do we have an unofficial number/range/guess of websites that are currently "Indieweb" in the sense of /indie_map if it were to rescrape today?
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[tantek]
or recrawl as it were?
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[chrisaldrich]
yes, recrawl... poor use of word in my pre-coffee state.
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[chrisaldrich]
indie map had us at 2,300 in 2017, and brid.gy shows 4K+ accounts today...
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[chrisaldrich]
surely with some organic growth and micro.blog onboarding we're at 10K+???
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[chrisaldrich]
What are statistics?
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Loqi
statistics are numbers that show measurements of various IndieWeb things like sites, posts, usage of protocols like Webmention, deployments of projects and plugins https://indieweb.org/statistics
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[snarfed]
[chrisaldrich] there's no clear definition
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[snarfed]
other than personal/org site on its own domain
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[snarfed]
indiemap didn't look at a bunch of sites and apply some criteria, it just took a small set from the community and blindly used them as is
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[snarfed]
from https://indiemap.org/docs.html#sites : "Any personal web site is IndieWeb in spirit! And many organization and company web sites too. Especially if the owner uses it as some or all of their primary online identity."
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[snarfed]
"I also propose the modest criteria that a site is IndieWeb in a technical plumbing sense if it has either microformats2, a webmention endpoint, or a micropub endpoint. Indie Map doesn't actually use that criteria anywhere, though."
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[chrisaldrich]
We don't need to rehash that discussion; I'm aware of the very fuzzy edges....
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[snarfed]
hah ok, sorry. guess i'm just not sure what the question means then
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[snarfed]
(eg indiemap 2300 and bridgy 4k+ are both relatively arbitrary numbers)
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aaronpk
webmention.io has 1186 right now, which is also very arbitrary
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[chrisaldrich]
I'm asking that given the fuzziness, what would you/we/us estimate the "community" size to be?
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[snarfed]
yeah so the first task is to define community
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[snarfed]
backs away slowly
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[chrisaldrich]
People who have heard of the word IndieWeb and might consider themselves to have an IndieWeb site.
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[snarfed]
5k-5M? :troll:
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[chrisaldrich]
Or may this: If I were making a pitch to a company to build a micropub client, for example, what would be the upper bound of reasonable cognizant customers knowing that more could easily join or grow later by adding plugins or further micropub support?
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[chrisaldrich]
goes to do some updating of wordpress plugin numbers...
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[snarfed]
yeah that's a more tractable question
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[chrisaldrich]
I suppose its both a good thing and a bad thing that we can't quote "daily active users" for a community with diverse needs. 🙂
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aaronpk
you can also use the analogy that it's like asking "how many podcasts are there"
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[snarfed]
even harder. i tried to find similar analogies, but kinda failed since even broad things like that technically are countable and have clearer definitions
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aaronpk
true, but it's almost impossible to actually count all of them
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[snarfed]
yeah. countability is the difficulty there; definition is for us
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[snarfed]
maybe more like how many people are knowledge workers
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[snarfed]
fortunately we don't really have to answer "how many indieweb sites are there?" or we can give glib answers like "a third of the web," or "all of them"
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[tantek]
we could make up a silly term like "webmentionverse" and count all the Bridgy #s, Webmention.io, WordPress Webmention plugin installs, Known installs etc.
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[snarfed]
yup! that's technically doable, if not easy per se. hence "...the modest criteria that a site is IndieWeb in a technical plumbing sense if it has either microformats2, a webmention endpoint, or a micropub endpoint." from https://indiemap.org/docs.html#sites
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[chrisaldrich]
Subsectioning the space for support for different specs is likely the only reasonable handle. I
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[snarfed]
eh first we'd want an actual reason to do the count at all though, since it's not easy
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[snarfed]
(or cheap)
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[chrisaldrich]
I'm happy to accept SWAG (scientific wild-a** guesses) 🙂
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[chrisaldrich]
5M it is then! 😉
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[snarfed]
btw, technical background on how you might approach that counting project, for anyone interested: https://indiemap.org/docs.html#common-crawl
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[snarfed]
somewhat easier if you just want domains, not pages, but still
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[snarfed]
also, bridgy usage stats aren't absolute indieweb numbers, but they're probably pretty representative for relative growth over time: https://snarfed.org/2019-01-02_bridgy-stats-update-4#comment-2731107
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Loqi
Ryan Barrett
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[KevinMarks]
I'm getting "state of the blogosphere" flashbacks
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[chrisaldrich]
I hosted a dinner last week for 12 randomly chosen college students (mostly seniors) and when I said I had a website, there was excited clamoring "He has a blog!" and every single person at the table pulled out their phone and wanted the URL immediately. I was a bit flabbergasted, but I have to say "The kids are alright."
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[tantek]
Nice! And did you invite them to your next HWC meetup?
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[tantek]
Or at least point them here to chat?
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[chrisaldrich]
You have to ask? (Of course I did.) The were all from across town at UCLA, so we'll have to organize something for them closer to home.
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[jgmac1106]
[chrisaldrich] I was at a kid's birthday party and the Dad was like. You have a blog? I know a blogger?
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[jgmac1106]
[chrisaldrich] ++
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Loqi
[chrisaldrich] has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (23 in all channels)
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[chrisaldrich]
The weird part for me was them calling it a blog because it has and does a lot more than the blogs of 2005 did... I almost feel like we need a new word...
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Loqi
[Chris Aldrich] IndieWeb quote of the day!
gRegorLove, en3r0, [tantek]1, rrix, pablinos, kensp, vivaldi, minoru_shiraeesh, [tantek], strugee, dmbaturin, viaken, KempfCreative, selectric, globbot, caolanm, Dowzee_, mootmoot, bleb and Dowzee joined the channel; nickodd left the channel
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jamietanna[m]
Haven't yet had a read of https://www.gwern.net/Archiving-URLs but it sounds like it'd be of interest to y'all
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joshghent
Hey jamietanna[m]! This is the first time I know someone from IRC IRL lol
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jamietanna[m]
joshghent 👋🏽 nice to see you here!
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jamietanna[m]
Are you coming to IndieWebCamp London? There are a few of us from Nottingham going
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GWG
I am sorry I am missing London
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gRegorLove
wow "URLs are regularly dumped from both my web browser’s daily browsing and my website pages into an archival daemon I wrote, which pre-emptively downloads copies locally and attempts to archive them in the Internet Archive"
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gRegorLove
Some nice typography on that page too
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gRegorLove
sidenotes instead of footnotes is a bit distracting though
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[snarfed]
yeah that seems fine and couldn't possibly go wrong
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[snarfed]
(er, sorry, i'll tone down my snark 😁)
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[tantek]
yeah, internet archiving your browser history feels like pretty likely privacy leak
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[tantek]
you know, capability URLs and all that
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[tantek]
(trying to expand on snarfed's snark in a productive way 😉 )
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gRegorLove
what is capability url
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Loqi
Capability-URLs sometimes called hard to guess URL or secret URL and used for granting access to a resource to anyone who has the URL https://indieweb.org/capability_URL
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gRegorLove
ooh, yeah
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joshghent
Not heard about this mystic indiewebcamp got some details? jamietanna[m]
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joshghent
Thanks man, cool that rosemary orchard is speaking, she is really cool on the automators podcast
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