#indieweb 2020-03-09
2020-03-09 UTC
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Cidjjvnrefg A friend mentioned indieweb to me very recently. I’m a heavy Facebook and twitter user, I feel constrained by basic Wordpress blogs and I keep thinking to myself “I should have a weird little website”. However I don’t have much money and I have even less skills. Any general thoughts?
# Cidjjvnrefg Maybe I should clarify re: lack of skills. I don’t know the first thing about any web hosting or web design or tech stuff.
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[KevinMarks] micro.blog may suit
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[tantek] yes definitely checkout https://micro.blog/
# Cidjjvnrefg I had a look at that once but it’s not really weird enough... still has the linear blog/twitter flow... which might be part of what I would like, but I’d also just like to have weird zones and galleries - like when you find a weird artist’s website and it’s just annoying and you close the tab.
# Cidjjvnrefg Thank you btw
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Loqi NeoCities is a free website hosting silo in the spirit of defunct silo GeoCities (Yahoo shutdown in 2009) that looks like a stepping stone to getting started on the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/NeoCities
# [tantek] https://micro.blog/ is very good for replacing "heavy Facebook and twitter" use. And I think NeoCities is a good playground for "weird".
# Cidjjvnrefg Ooh thanks I haven’t heard of that. When I experimented with HTML around 2001 I was annoyed at how quickly things were changing. One minute your site was fine, the next your plugin whatever was insecure and hack able
# Cidjjvnrefg Brilliant - I’ll explore both of these thank you
# [tantek] Also check out https://brutalistwebsites.com/ for awesome examples of weird & inspiring websites
# Cidjjvnrefg Thank you for all this stuff! I’ve got loads to explore now!
# [KevinMarks] you might like fluffy's approach at http://beesbuzz.biz/
# Cidjjvnrefg Moving sideways a bit - I was looking at Roam (roamresearch.com) and I like the idea of something networked and bi-directional linking, something emergent and less heirarchical. The same friend shared this with me: https://blog.jethro.dev/posts/introducing_org_roam/ how hardcore do you think this is for a total noob?
# Cidjjvnrefg Thank you for the above comments while I was typing mine :)
# Cidjjvnrefg I have the attention span of a disappointing pet dog. One you have hopes for but then eventually realise you just have to accept that’s how he got made
# Cidjjvnrefg He means well... but, y’knos
# Cidjjvnrefg *y’know
# Cidjjvnrefg Neocities looks like ridiculous fun
# Cidjjvnrefg That sounds like good advice
# Cidjjvnrefg Is there much out there that’s like store-bought indieweb? Or is that a contradiction? I suppose micro.blog is like what I mean. You can pay, get a service, not need to code, and still be off the corporate web
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# Cidjjvnrefg Thanks to the person who mentioned brutalistwebsites.com - that’s exactly the kind of weird, annoying, creative stuff I was meaning
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# [ColinMorris] I love the no pressure feel I get from #indieweb. Felt like tinkering, tinkered. Some worked and some didn’t. Learned. Yay!
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# pythonfx hello
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# joshghent Well done on the frontpage jamietanna[m] - nice article!
# joshghent Frontpage of HN that is
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# [g33kcentric] Morning all! Had a pretty productive weekend with my personal site so thats put me in a good mood!
# [g33kcentric] A question - If one were to start thinking about setting up a homebrew website club, where would you start, finding people, getting to know their technical experience etc, im a web developer by trade so the tech part is nay problem, but stereotypically the social side is, especially when you dont have any contacts in the area you live.
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jamietanna[m] Thanks joshghent!
# vika_nezrimaya good morning indieweb
# [g33kcentric] morning!
# jamietanna[m] [g33kcentric] I started one in Nottingham where we have a strong tech community, and I knew folks would be interested in it. I've had folks join us who've not been in the community up until then. Where abouts are you based?
# vika_nezrimaya I love how it's always morning somewhere even though it's literally past noon in Russia
# [g33kcentric] well its 10.23 am here in the UK 🙂
# vika_nezrimaya I'm exactly 3 hours later :3 so it's 13:24
# [g33kcentric] In Woking Jamie, its just south of london, i know there is a homebrew club in London, but we are outside of it enough, for it to be a bit of a bark to get too, especially considering its one of the busiest train lines in the country!
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# pythonfx gg
# Kopsi Hi
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[jgmac1106] [g33kcentric] i have a few HWCs I support. New Haven is more youth directed and Accra more college age adults
# [jgmac1106] Honestly best bet find 1-2 people and a venue. Hang out and talk about your sites. All you need
# Kopsi I just asked in the #dev channel and was referred to this one: I am researching IndieWeb for my masters thesis and was curious, whether there have been any recent privacy/security surveys of it. Google hasn't provided any results regarding this, so i was curious, whether there was something unpublished or published in a way that couldn't be found by Google.
# [jgmac1106] Kopsi researcher as well... But more a cognitive scientist studying learning in IndiewWeb
# [jgmac1106] Have to get kids to school but will catch up later
# [jgmac1106] One thing privacy isn't security. But privacy, security, and openness all dance to the same tune
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# jamietanna[m] [g33kcentric] what's the tech scene like in Woking? I'd definitely recommend setting one up - you don't need to do anything like getting official venues, mine is in the cafe area of a boardgame cafe. I'd say just see what happens. I get between 1 and 10 people regularly 🤷🏽♂️
# [g33kcentric] i have no idea what its like! Which probably means its non-existant 😄 there arn't any big tech companies here
# Kopsi @jgmac1106 Right now I am deciding whether my focus will be on privacy or security. Both have different implications, however security can affect privacy more than vice-versa. Since I am slightly more experienced in the security area, I will probably focus on that, but I was wondering if someone had done research in that matter already before I invest time to just confirm earlier findings.
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# [KevinMarks] I have a similar problem up here in middlesbrough - there is more of a tech scene in newcastle
# Kopsi Your research looks really interesting too
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# [jgmac1106] Kopsi. Start with the IndieWeb /principles pages in terms of a security lens
# [jgmac1106] For example the principle of plurality negates much of the question, "What security risks are there using IndieWeb?"
# [jgmac1106] Answer to that is almost limitless. In my mind what makes it secure is focus on owning your data. My security is my responsibility not a corporation
# [jgmac1106] Of course that answer laden with privilege. Privacy and security like many things in life shouldn't be limited to dominate narratives and wealth
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# TheCondor hello
# TheCondor Happy to discover this community, I have a few questions about IndieWeb
# TheCondor Do you think it's fair if a tech company acquires an indie software and avoid to announce it to the users for the sake of keep using the "indie" label?
# [KevinMarks] I'm not sure how that would work - a lot of the indieweb software is either open protocols or open source code
# [jgmac1106] yeah if the customer signed a ToS that allowed the content to be sold to a third party, is it fair.
# [jgmac1106] Is it ethical? right? different questions
# TheCondor In this case it's not open source or open protocols, an indie dev decided to sell its software to the tech company X backed SV money. The tech company X continues to tell to everyone "we are indie developers" and raising money on Patreon or Paypal suggesting their customers and people on the web they are helping indie developers to pay the server costs.
# TheCondor I'm sure it's not ethical, I wanted to know if IndieWeb community already heard about this kind of case
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# [KevinMarks] so that may not qualify as indieweb, as opposed to the broader sense of indie (eg indie games)
# TheCondor That's what I thought
# TheCondor That's what I thought
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# [snarfed] definitely plenty of examples of this. eg the Stylish browser extension: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/2-million-users-impacted-by-new-data-collection-policy-in-stylish-browser-add-on/
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# [tantek] thread started in #microformats, appropriately encouraged here by sknebel: https://chat.indieweb.org/microformats/2020-03-09#t1583771760980900
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# [jgmac1106] we do that in clmooc and connected learning space all the time but without rel= canonical
# [jgmac1106] will encourage it, bc too many people draft on Google Docs like for https://hybridpedagogy.org/write/
# [jgmac1106] I think in the academic space it might go to the group site first and then back to your site, like you noted with tech pubs
# [jgmac1106] rel=canonical important in the open annotation world as that is how hypothes.is keeps all annotations together
# [jgmac1106] I know, regretfully worked into workflow
# [jgmac1106] hoping work around annotating and fragments may help...doubt it
# [jgmac1106] I kinda did it today but the group site is also mine so only half counts: https://edu106.jgregorymcverry.com/2020/notes-on-approaching-our-next-module-in-edu106-a-tech
# [jgmac1106] though this is getting devy....but I was encouraged to use Dublin Core instead of rel="canonical" (since I have it by default)....first time I heard a reference to use in wild
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gRegorLove [jgmac1106], I don't see rel-canonical in the HTML there, though it is in the schema.org description
# gRegorLove Maybe known is removing the rel incorrectly
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[jeremycherfas] Odd. I had one go in response to a similar thread today but gave up as the person saw no reason to continue. https://twitter.com/radiomorillo/status/1236708694928297986
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@radiomorillo Content Pro-Tip: If you’ve written an article or blog post under your byline for a publication or a blog that’s not yours, save a PDF version of your article. Sites go down, links break, or they disappear. You want to preserve that work for the future! I just did this today. (twitter.com/_/status/1236708694928297986)
# [jeremycherfas] [tantek] Do you know whether it is in fact the case that Google penalizes a site if it contains a syndicated copy of content from a different site?
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# [jeremycherfas] Because bad effect on SEO was the reason some gave me for no PESOS back to his own site.
# gRegorLove I was taking a look at Hypothesis documentation, they claim DC is preferable because of its URL independence, but looks complicated and easy to mess up https://web.hypothes.is/help/how-hypothesis-interacts-with-document-metadata/##Dublin+Core+metadata
# gRegorLove If it has rel-canonical, Google should not penalize. I'm certain I've seen that as official Google recommendation
# gRegorLove Hypothesis is also only one use-case. rel-canonical is much more widely supported
# gRegorLove Google on rel-canonical: https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/139066?hl=en
# [jeremycherfas] Oh excellent. Gregorlove++
# [jgmac1106] a very specific use case with some mismatching of Known sites and hypothes.is: https://twitter.com/judell/status/1230564237157662723
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@judell @jgmac1106 It's hard to reconstruct what happened here. One thing I've seen: a site uses rel="canonical" href="[RSS_feed]" on every page, making all pages aliases of one another. Unless you need rel="canonical" for SEO I'd leave it out and rely on DC:identifier. (twitter.com/_/status/1230564237157662723)
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# [jgmac1106] it only works because Known has all the metadata types, JSON-LD, mf2, and DC...wasn't recommending adding DC but using that indtead of rel="canonical" because I had it
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# Loqi An original post link is a hyperlink from a POSSE copy to its original indieweb post https://indieweb.org/original_post_link
# gRegorLove That's an odd tweet, [jgmac1106]. malformed rel-canonical points to a need to fix it, not drop it and replace with DC, imo
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# gRegorLove This is probably dev, sorry
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@brentsimmons To describe an RSS reader to someone who doesn’t know what it is, it might be time to say it’s “like podcasts, but for reading.” (twitter.com/_/status/1236770203658104833)
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[chrisaldrich] Has anyone in the IndieWeb community got examples of photo attribution sending/receiving/showing webmentions their own websites? For additional context, see: https://boffosocko.com/2020/03/09/idea-a-script-to-find-flickr-photos-being-used-online-matt-maldre/
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# vika_nezrimaya hey IndieWeb I finished some cool features for Kittybox Companion
# vika_nezrimaya I can now create custom attachments via intents :3 basically opening a road to integrating Kittybox with other apps in the future
# vika_nezrimaya which app do you want to see? Maybe a food poster a la Teacup? A pushup counter? Everything describable as MF2 goes! :3 just tell me how to describe it
# vika_nezrimaya Please note that the intent always opens Kittybox Companion's interface to confirm that you want to post the content and maybe add some extra stuff
# vika_nezrimaya this also means that you can implement such add-on apps yourself, as the only thing needed is an intent extra named ru.fireburn.kittybox.intent.EXTRA_MF2_JSON
# vika_nezrimaya it should contain an MF2-JSON blob that will be used to form an h-entry
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# [KevinMarks] Svgshare.com supports receiving webmention on the svg and png urls (it uses Link headers to indicate the endpoint)
# [chrisaldrich] Good example [KevinMarks], thanks!
# [chrisaldrich] Are there any off hand that you can point to as specific examples?
# [KevinMarks] I did test it but can't think of which one now
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