#indieweb 2020-04-05

2020-04-05 UTC
gRegorLove, hs0ucy, wolftune, kensp, KartikPrabhu, seekr, Garbanzo, [tantek], KempfCreative, KempfCreative1, [LewisCowles], vilhalmer, crab and opal joined the channel
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Indigenous for Desktop" https://realize.be/blog/indigenous-desktop
opal, KartikPrabhu, leg, irisisgay, markopasha, petermolnar, [jgmac1106], jgee, [kimberlyhirsh], anotheryou, loicm, omz13 and [KevinMarks] joined the channel; leg left the channel
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doubleloop Morning folks
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[jgmac1106] morning, doubleloop got micformats and webmentions working properly on articles and blog posts: https://longthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/doku.php?id=namespace:test_post#making_an_indieweb_wiki
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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[jgmac1106] hey zegnat..thinking about your Drupal/WP explorations as I have been playing with wikis....I may have stumbled into a light weight CMS
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Zegnat Dokuwiki? I run an instance for D&D stuff, but found the UI needlessly complex and I actually prefer MediaWiki as a wiki
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doubleloop Morning [jgmac1106], Zegnat
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doubleloop [jgmac1106]: nice!
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[jgmac1106] yeah, I got webmentions working...yeah plumbing is lightweight but UI clunky to get going
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[jgmac1106] lot of weird xml stuff still hanging around...especially in the blogging tools, I am just playing really wanted a wiki that wasn't mediawiki
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Zegnat Oh, I can totally see webmentions working for my most wiki systems, for sure!
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Zegnat They are the prime candidate for sending webmentions in my opinion
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[jgmac1106] I am just using Fluffy's scrpit, dokuwiki still uses pingbacks heavily someone smart than me coudl proably fork it. I will put in webmention support ticket every year when they vote on wikimedia priorites before all-hands
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[jgmac1106] the css in dokuwiki old and crusty that is for sure
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://desmondrivet.com/2020/04/04/indieweb-conversation (from https://www.jvt.me/mf2/2020/04/umb5a/)
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[jeremycherfas] Morning zegnat [jgmac1106] doubleloop and others
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[KevinMarks] audience << https://web.archive.org/web/20111016182753if_/http://www.tiara.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/marwick_boyd_twitter_nms.pdf
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Loqi ok, I added "https://web.archive.org/web/20111016182753if_/http://www.tiara.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/marwick_boyd_twitter_nms.pdf" to the "See Also" section of /audience https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=69400&oldid=59552
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doubleloop Morning [jeremycherfas]
gxt, [LewisCowles], Choscura, jgmac1106_, gRegorLove, KartikPrabhu, wolftune, oevl_, seekr, mauz555, vika_nezrimaya, gpickett00, Ryuno-Ki and Ryuno joined the channel
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Ryuno OMG, it's been ages, since I last logged into IRC :o (had to fix my irssi config first)
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Ryuno snarfed around perhaps?
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jmac Welcome back Ryuno!
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jmac I connect to IndieWeb chat with IRCCloud, meself. It's good stuff.
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jmac There is a robot here, Loqi, that will let you leave messages for people not here at the moment. I don't know the syntax for it but one of the other regulars here might?
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Ryuno-Ki Thanks. First time I'm here in #indieweb IIRC
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Ryuno-Ki hm, let's try common syntaxes …
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Ryuno-Ki !help
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aaronpk what is Loqi
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot/digital therapist present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/Loqi
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jmac there you go
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jmac (Also not remembered by me: "what is...")
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Ryuno Okay, so it's !tell
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Ryuno !tell snarfed I'm here to chat about https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/931#issuecomment-609438352 now :-)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [snarfed] btw, i'm happy to talk [in indieweb chat](https://indieweb.org/discuss) too if you want!
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Ryuno Oh, looks like I logged in twice :o (Ryuno-Ki is also my nick)
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Ryuno-Ki Let's avoid confusion :-)
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Zegnat Easy to login multiple times on IRC, haha
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Zegnat Haven’t seen [snarfed] around today yet, I think, but he is probably around somewhere judging from those comments
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Ryuno-Ki No hurries. I'm about to have dinner now anyway. Okay if I'm idling here?
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jmac I spent 95% of my time here idle for two years and nobody's kicked me out here
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jmac *yet
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[jgmac1106] "the jmac cam back the very next day.. hw wouldn't stay away, away, away" what is a camp without songs?
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[jgmac1106] came* he*...need a keyboard break. Welcome Ryuno-Ki
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Webmentions, active and passive" https://fogknife.com/2020-04-05-webmentions-active-and-passive.html
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[snarfed] hi Ryuno-Ki! happy to talk about bridgy ops, probably in #dev
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Loqi [snarfed]: Ryuno left you a message 20 minutes ago: I'm here to chat about https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/931#issuecomment-609438352 now :-)
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sknebel (that's #indieweb-dev)
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Lohn[m] <jmac "Today I hand-washed an old banda"> Show us some pics!
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jmac Lohn[m]: https://twitter.com/JmacDotOrg/status/1246579982027161601
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@JmacDotOrg Materials: a Looney Labs Chessboard Bandana (rev. 1) and two large rubber bands, all purchased circa 2000, scrounged from the corners of the game closet. Yes, I washed the bandana first. And you can get your own (rev. 2, rather prettier) one for $10: http://store.looneylabs.com/Chessboard-Bandana?sc=2&category=1578 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUy94m_WkAAezul.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1246579982027161601)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Rejecting the “Post-web era” while embracing The Future" https://fogknife.com/2018-08-31-rejecting-montforts-post-web-era-while-embracing-the-future.html
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "State of the Plerd, 2018" https://fogknife.com/2018-08-19-state-of-the-plerd-2018.html
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Ryuno-Ki Why do blog posts from 2018 appear here as news?
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jmac Uhh, my bad maybe
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jmac I just updated a couple of old posts, and my blog software re-syndicated them to IndieNews, and IndieNews said "Sure why not"
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aaronpk new URLs?
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jmac I would have expected it to have said "I've seen these already"... but, yes, I've switched from HTTP to HTTPS since then
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jmac whoopsy
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jmac Sorry! You can delete em
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[snarfed] 👋 hi will aka bonkerfield!
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[snarfed] bonkerfield and i worked together for a while a bit ago. he's a great data scientist. if we can tempt him into doing a little of that on anything indieweb, eg indie map or anything else, we'll be lucky!
mauz555, irisisgay, kensp, Diogo, opal, [tantek], jbove, Garbanzo and loicm joined the channel
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jmac A reader of my Webmentions article linked me to https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
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jmac That sure is a The Register headline
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jmac (and subbed)
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jmac *subhed
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aaronpk i remember that article
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jmac Man, what the heck. The article author seemed to think WM was pretty cool, and the snarky editor was like "pff this is garbage" and added that headline i guess? oh well
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jmac That being said: it does reinforce that "Yes but what about the spam" is the #1 question everyone has about WM, and it should be our first question as implementors as well. (Not news to anyone here, just a sober reminder to me.)
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aaronpk "what about spam" is a problem with everything, there is no actual solution
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aaronpk the reason is because the term "spam" is too vague so it can be repurposed when dismissing any technology
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jmac Well, yes. It unpacks to "How is this going to be useful in an internet full of malefactors" and specifically in this case "How is this not going to just drop down the same chute that Pingbacks did (in the public consciousness)"
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aaronpk and we've addressed those specific criticisms, and IMO webmention is already far more successful than pingback ever was
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jmac I didn't know that much about Pingbacks before getting interested in webmention. When talking to others about it, I learn how much Pingback broke peoples' hearts. It left people feeling really burned
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jmac Yeah I agree. I feel confident that WM is designed with reality in mind (per the rest of the main IW techs)
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jmac I'm here for the grounded idealism.
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jmac FWIW a lot of smart-nerd friends are using me as their main information source about this and they really want it to succeed
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jmac I feel that a lot of my excitement for Webmention is irrational and I haven't quite succeeded in putting it into words et
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jmac I am thrilled when I make a post and it makes a thing happen on another website like magic. But how is it better than just making my post and then walking over to that other site and pressing a button to make the thing happen, like everyone else? Uh I dunno
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aaronpk not having to walk over
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aaronpk that's literally how it's better
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jmac I know! It seems so trivial! But... it somehow is!!
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aaronpk it becomes more apparent once you see the end-to-end experience in a reader
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jmac Yeah, great point. I need to play with a real WM-capable reader.
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aaronpk well it's not the reader that's webmention-capable, that's the point :)
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jmac I think I jumped tracks here. Do you mean a reader that knows about micro pub et al?
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aaronpk yes
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aaronpk the reader makes a post on your website, your website sends a webmention to the thing you're commenting on
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aaronpk the end experience is the same as you get on twitter, but the data lives on each person's own website, the reader is just the tool used to create and read the posts
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jmac Yes! That's what I meant... I have yet to really use an IndieWebby reader that can engage in two-way conversation like that.
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jmac It's funny as I've gotten to sing the praises of Fraidycat, which takes the opposite approach of "following from a distance"
markoong, markong, jgee, [KevinMarks], [LewisCowles], wolftune, pncl and [tantek] joined the channel
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[tantek] jmac check this out
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[tantek] what is a social reader?
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Loqi A social reader is a modern interactive reader that allows you to directly respond to posts (with a like, comment, etc) right there inline with posts as you read them (as people do in social media), in contrast to legacy feed readers which were one-way read-only experiences and provided no mechanisms to interact with or respond to posts https://indieweb.org/social_reader
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[tantek] ^^^ that's the term you're looking for
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[tantek] In general when pitching this stuff, try to avoid any/all mention of jargon/technology/plumbing like webmention, micropub etc.
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[tantek] those are all implementation details only of interest to implementers (not all developers are implementers nor are all those even interested in implementing)
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