#indieweb 2020-04-13

2020-04-13 UTC
dsiypl4_, strugee, KartikPrabhu, oedmarap, shimmy1996, KempfCreative, [LewisCowles], wolftune, beko, petermolnar and [prtksxna] joined the channel
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Simple Location 4.0.6 for WordPress Released" https://david.shanske.com/2020/04/12/simple-location-4-0-6-for-wordpress-released/
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Dark mode & accessibility improvements in Zuari" https://prtksxna.com/2020/04/12/dark-mode-accessibility-improvements-in-zuari/
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[jgmac1106] morning everyone, we are collecting different "I can't" and "why can't I" found poems on different search engines: https://twitter.com/jgmac1106/status/1249284208603865088 be great if you get involved
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@jgmac1106 An "I Can't Found Poem from Google" #clmooc #smallpoems https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVZZXf9XkAAv4bW.png (twitter.com/_/status/1249284208603865088)
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "On Private Commenting Systems" https://seblog.nl/2020/04/13/3/private-commenting-systems
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jeremycherfas waves to seblog
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jbove Hi. Can anyone else confirm that http://duckdns.org is down for them?
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[LewisCowles] which port, just in a browser?
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jbove LewisCowles: Thanks for the reply. Just in a browser.
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[LewisCowles] it's down for me
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[LewisCowles] has rendered a few times, but after double-digits seconds
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jbove It seems that duckdns is having DNS name server issues since a couple of days.
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Zegnat What is duckdns?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "duckdns" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "duckdns is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat Loads immediately for me now
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jbove And DuckDNS is back online
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[LewisCowles] what is dynamic DNS
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dynamic DNS" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "dynamic DNS is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[LewisCowles] what is dynamic dns?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dynamic dns" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "dynamic dns is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[LewisCowles] What is Dynamic DNS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Dynamic DNS" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Dynamic DNS is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[LewisCowles] Dynamic DNS is the process of pointing a DNS record to a computer that allows it to resolve a non-fixed IP
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Loqi ok
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[LewisCowles] DuckDNS is Dynamic DNS
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[LewisCowles] Dynamic DNS << Examples: http://duckdns.org
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Loqi ok, I added "Examples: http://duckdns.org" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Dynamic_DNS https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=69500&oldid=69499
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[LewisCowles] I've added Ngrok to the list too
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[LewisCowles] I'm sure there are more
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[LewisCowles] dynamic dns is Dynamic DNS
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[prtksxna] This looks like an interesting thing to do next year https://css-naked-day.github.io/2020.html
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[Michael_Beckwi] agreed
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[bonkerfield] glad to know i'm not alone in thinking it's confusing to get started on indieweb https://fosstodon.org/web/statuses/103992011309743345
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Loqi [Amolith] Indieweb is so damn confusing.
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aaronpk Yea third reply down and I would rather not have them get involved here so that’s okay
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Zegnat The discussion is not that bad
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jbove LewisCowles: Thanks!
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aaronpk also, what the indieweb is means something different to different people
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aaronpk also demonstrated in that thread
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Zegnat I think that once again it is a problem of IndieWeb not framing itself in a sentence or two, combined with people looking for a product (maybe?).
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Zegnat Yes, that
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KartikPrabhu what is indieweb
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Loqi The IndieWeb is a community of individual personal websites, connected by simple standards, based on the principles of owning your domain, using it as your primary identity, to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and own your data https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
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KartikPrabhu that looks like a one sentence framing which is accurate
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aaronpk like "their “getting started” page is just like: “buy a domain and hosting and start a blog”" -- yes, that is in fact true, because that is exactly the goal for some people
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KartikPrabhu the "product" thing is <shrug>
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Zegnat Maybe we should put that indieweb dfn somewhere big on the homepage, hehe
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KartikPrabhu "The IndieWeb is a people-focused alternative to the "corporate web". "
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KartikPrabhu also true
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KartikPrabhu and on the main page
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sknebel but lot less clear IMHO
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Zegnat KartikPrabhu: I agree, but a lot of people look for the package, not for a way to define their own place online. And I feel those are often the people who end up discarding it. Kinda as seen in that discussion.
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Zegnat Not to specifically call out the people in that specific discussion, just in general, we have seen this a lot before
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aaronpk i have an idea for the home page... one sec
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sknebel I think emphasizing the community (although I'd say "community of people ..." ,not "of websites") would be better
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Zegnat [bonkerfield]++ let us know what we can do to improve both indiewebify.me and the getting started in general! :)
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Loqi [bonkerfield] has 3 karma over the last year
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[prtksxna] Yeah, there are a lot of components in the IndieWeb, and a lot of tools implementing them, so it gets really confusing.
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Zegnat likes to say there is no one IndieWeb, there are just lots of personal websites :)
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[prtksxna] Unlike the comparatively simpler call to action to sign-up on a mastadon instance.
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aaronpk this is actually a pretty good intro/overview page https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
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[bonkerfield] zegnat: thanks, i'm working on it. but as this discussion shows, it's still really hard to try to boil down. especially for a newbie.
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aaronpk lets you dive in at various layers depending on what you're interestde in
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: some people do that. others don't
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KartikPrabhu we have had many people come in here looking for how to start with getting domains and all that
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KartikPrabhu as aaronpk said indieweb is different for different people
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KartikPrabhu some already have a website and want the "bells and whistles" like webmention
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KartikPrabhu others don't have a website and are looking to move away from silos
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KartikPrabhu [prtksxna]: yes, but that is one os the points. There isn't one indieweb product and there shouldn't be
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aaronpk i added that sentence on the home page, check it out
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[prtksxna] KartikPrabhu: I agree that there shouldn’t be a singe IndieWeb product. I meant to say that that make it harder to explain, discover and understand for a new person.
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: but it is under the fold!!! ;)
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sknebel that^^^, without the smiley ;)
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aaronpk i think that's okay
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aaronpk tho we should probably move this to #indieweb-meta
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[snarfed] honestly, the complaint later in that thread about us saying "“buy a domain and hosting and start a blog” combined with advice like “have WordPress.com or Blogger host your website!”'...that actually seems like a pretty great concrete intro to the indieweb to me
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[snarfed] we should/do now favor eg micro.blog over those two, but otherwise, i'm ok with that intro
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[snarfed] if they don't like it, then oh well
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aaronpk yeah which is my point that clearly whoever this person is has some other goal in mind and that advice is not resonating with them, whereas that's perfect advice for plenty of other people
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[prtksxna] Maybe some of it just doesn’t feel as shiny ✨ to people (not saying that that is a necessarily a problem)
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Zegnat Our pitch is not something shiny, our pitch is get yourself a website :D
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[prtksxna] Exactly! ❤
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[prtksxna] However I do think there are a ton of shiny things in the IndieWeb, but they aren’t introduced in a shiny way.
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[KevinMarks] That pages looks a bit odd on my phone
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[bonkerfield] i think the original poster (amolith) does have his own domain and it looks like he's done a bit of research. I think he just wanted to get to webmentions in a reasonable time.
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[KevinMarks] And doing them with Hugo without js is a bit tricky.
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aaronpk again this is my point with the whole thing. someone comes in with their own ideas and tech, and is looking for some particular aspect of the indieweb, and wants it to be easy, then is frustrated that there isn't a solution for them on the home page
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Zegnat Yeah, I just wish it was slightly more clear immediately from the homepage that we are not always offering the full on solution for every platform. Going to check out the tweak you did now :)
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Zegnat I think that link to /IndieWeb is great! That is definitely a nice page
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Zegnat aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 32 karma in this channel over the last year (212 in all channels)
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Zegnat KartikPrabhu++ for reminding us all of /IndieWeb
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (8 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] It tempted to use CSS to write "Get a Website" in a shiny way
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[jgmac1106] and the level of get started for that "newbie" is light years beyond "newbies" I am reaching..so it is relative
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[prtksxna] [jgmac1106] I couldn’t resist https://codepen.io/prtksxna/full/wvKaLMd
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[jgmac1106] beet me too it, but I am waiting for the GitHub action
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[jgmac1106] https://jgregorymcverry.com/shiny
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[jgmac1106] prtksxna++
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Loqi prtksxna has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (8 in all channels)
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aaronpk what is this magic
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "this magic" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "this magic is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jgmac1106] log all magicians...copy and paste of someone's else's trick
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[jgmac1106] like*....long day sorry
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swentel haha
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[prtksxna] Can’t find where codepen saves what you forked from 🙇‍♂️
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swentel the shiny css is awesome :)
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swentel instead of that naked css day, we should introduce a shiny css day too :)
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[prtksxna] Haha, yeah 😅
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[jgmac1106] someone made a CSS called framework called Shiny that slowed me down a bit....totally gonna write some weird CSS shiny poems now
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[jgmac1106] people can mess with this one a bit as well but it is all gifs....I want to do it CSS and HTML alone: https://jgregorymcverry.com/poetryisastretch
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[jgmac1106] need to fide webmentions on that one....but adding webmentions to hugo...one javascript file and one line of code..thanks fluffy
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[jgmac1106] (okay you have to sign up for webmention.io and copy to lines in your HEAD) as well
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[KevinMarks] SVG can work for poetry as you can accurately position text, though you may need some font care
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jacky aaronpk: re: simplicity at where they are; I think this is a new phenomenon (but this might be me being younger and not noticing trends)
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jmac Reminder that the next NYC online meetup's happening Wednesday evening (Eastern time) and y'all're invited: https://events.indieweb.org/2020/04/online-indieweb-meetup-nyc-xzPxXTK5HGbe
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[jgmac1106] I need to learn SVG kevinmarks haven't spent the time yet
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[jgmac1106] getting closer but then power ran out: https://jgregorymcverry.com/shinywebsite
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jmac Ahhh SVG
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jmac I spent years with my head in that particular bucket. It can be fun
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[jgmac1106] a bit of overlap between my two animation timers I need to resolve, but I can't burn my phone battery on a hot spot....I don't want to hook up a generator in this weather...but I really want to fix...
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[snarfed] getting close to 3M webmentions sent in the wild! bridgy's currently at 2.8M, adding ~2k/day, and bridgy is ~95% of total in the wild, so we should hit 3M in ~25 days.
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[LewisCowles] aaronpk, surely you could just avoid them and set a CoC for how they communicate in IndieWeb channels?
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[LewisCowles] Zegnat++
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Loqi Zegnat has 14 karma in this channel over the last year (55 in all channels)
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[LewisCowles] > I think that once again it is a problem of IndieWeb not framing itself in a sentence or two, combined with people looking for a product (maybe?).
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[LewisCowles] KartikPrabhu, I'm unsure if
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[LewisCowles] > The IndieWeb is a people-focused alternative to the "corporate web"
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[LewisCowles] Is not misleading as many of us use corporate web to keep our personal sites up
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aaronpk let's keep that convo in #indieweb-meta
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