#indieweb 2020-05-08

2020-05-08 UTC
marcusr, wolftune, electronicmaji, KempfCreative and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] I'm catching up on the logs still... tantek, WRT your military metaphors blog post, you might appreciate the third segment of the OTM episode: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/episodes/on-the-media-war-what-is-it-good-for
turona, wolftune, KartikPrabhu, kensp, jussi^, nickodd, seekr, swentel and markopasha joined the channel
#
jacky http://www--arc.com/
#
j605 hmm design is nice but I keep stumbling on sites that are really heavy on my old laptop. maybe this is analogous to climbing a beautiful winding staircase when you're really old
[LewisCowles] joined the channel
#
[LewisCowles] j605++
#
Loqi j605 has 2 karma over the last year
#
[LewisCowles] jacky did that "feel shouty"?
#
[LewisCowles] the text is so massive and it has block caps and red text. Hard to read and engage with
#
[LewisCowles] at 33% zoom, it looks magnificent
markopasha, mauz555 and loicm joined the channel
#
Zegnat Loqi << [https://chat.indieweb.org/2020-05-07/1588883907104500 the bot of mischief]
#
Loqi ok, I added "[https://chat.indieweb.org/2020-05-07/1588883907104500 the bot of mischief]" to the "See Also" section of /Loqi https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=69846&oldid=66390
seekr, anotheryou, jjuran, loicm, jussi^, jeremych_ and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
loicm joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] morning
#
Loqi rise and shine!
[KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] [jacky] are you worried about confusion with Google lighthouse? https://developers.google.com/web/tools/lighthouse
swentel and [LewisCowles] joined the channel
#
[LewisCowles] morning
ben_thatmustbeme, cjw6k_ and KempfCreative joined the channel
#
[LewisCowles] Anyone ever re-write history and tear a blog post into several smaller ones?
#
jeremycherfas I don't see that as re-writing history, unless you rewrite. I see that as repurposing.
#
[LewisCowles] I'm considering keeping the publish date the same.
#
[LewisCowles] I'm fixing spelling, grammar, clarity, conciseness, formality (all the microsoft word things)... Someone spell checked something on my site and it's led me down a path that makes me want to bin the whole thing.
#
jeremycherfas I wouldn't do that.
#
jeremycherfas If you're going to all that trouble, ad one extra bit of information or thought and call it an updated version of the binned material.
#
[LewisCowles] I won't. It would be the nth deletion since 2002.
#
annadane i really wish micro.blog wouldn't broadcast by default peoples' replies to stuff
#
annadane no idea how to turn it off
#
jeremycherfas Depends whether it is coming from an external site via RSS, which is the only thing I have experience of.
sivoais joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] I need to go look at the reply context tools in micro.blog, I know I send decontextualized replies. I tried to use network specific hashtags but too much work,
#
[jgmac1106] remembering the hashtag, keeping 3-4 different word counts in my head based on the length of the hashtag (I get 231 with my url)
#
[jgmac1106] people can choose to unfollow though, writing more for an audience of one even if that makes my posts seem confuzzled
#
[LewisCowles] jgmac1106++ just for using confuzzled
#
Loqi jgmac1106 has 15 karma in this channel over the last year (86 in all channels)
#
[LewisCowles] jeremycherfas++
#
Loqi jeremycherfas has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (30 in all channels)
plutes joined the channel
#
amiiboh [LewisCowles] I've done things like what you're describing, I don't see that it's a big deal for the things I do it with. If I make substantial rewrites I will publish it as a new post and maybe take down the old one, but I don't see anything wrong with splitting things up to make them more readable, or making minor edits
#
amiiboh For me personally, I do not mind making those adjustments to my public facing stuff, I have copies of the original on my computer anyway and the stuff on my site is for others so why not try to make it the best experience I can for them
swentel and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] Could you give the sub posts a common tag to thread them neck together at a single url?
#
[KevinMarks] The only time I got pushback for changing a post was this one http://www.kevinmarks.com/htmlversustex.html
bear joined the channel
#
amiiboh Yeah that's what I'd do too, either tag them or add a note inline at the top and a link to the next part at the bottom
#
amiiboh and pushback on something like that is a question of who you're okay with annoying imo because you can always find a nitpicker
markopasha joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] I add a dt-published and a dt-update if if it makes sense to let the audience know I made edite, like substantial corrections or position changing, minor edits...dig through github if you are that weirdly interested
#
[jgmac1106] updated*
electronicmaji, jussi^, [tantek] and wolftune joined the channel
#
[tantek] before the markup, I think it's important to figure out how to communicate it in visible text, as amiiboh suggests
#
[tantek] what is updated
#
Loqi An updated is a post that has been edited by the author https://indieweb.org/updated
jolvera and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[LewisCowles] Yeah, I think I'd got a bit lost in a few ways. I'm manually authoring each post and quite often putting down and coming back over the course of one or more days for some of the longer ones.
#
[LewisCowles] Now I'm reviewing they seem like they'd fit in better as tags
#
[LewisCowles] I'd just started my first tag / series of posts the other day, so luckily I'd kind of started.
#
[LewisCowles] It would be wholely more comfortable to have word support all html features and output the html I want
#
[LewisCowles] I'm really impressed with their "Editor" although a little upset that they deprecated spelling and grammar without sign-posting
#
[chrisaldrich] !tell annadane There are a few settings that may help you at https://micro.blog/account. Look at Timeline setting which should help a bit, and separately the Replies setting for yourself.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
annadane thanks [chrisaldrich]
#
annadane still, i can't believe websites do that at all in the first place
[rjpc] joined the channel
#
jeremycherfas !tell [LewisCowles] Do you have to write in Word? Also, pandoc?
#
[LewisCowles] I've not been writing in word, I've been reviewing in word because p-spell apparently has failed me
#
jeremycherfas Ah. What is p-spell
#
Loqi [LewisCowles], jeremycherfas: that's a lot of dev jargon! can you move to #indieweb-dev?
#
jeremycherfas Come off it loqi.
#
[LewisCowles] basically 4 things were picked up and every post I copied and pasted (from browser) to word showed me lots of information I'd missed that I do think improved my writing
#
[LewisCowles] sure Loqi, it's not dev jargon, but I'm fine to move
#
[LewisCowles] 🙄
#
jeremycherfas That's all to the good then. Off to #dev we go.
#
[chrisaldrich] For updating content on old posts in the past I've used something like <ins datetime="2020-05-08T15:41:09+00:00">This is the update</ins> with a snippet of CSS to make it more visually obvious on the page. Here's an example page with two of them with the date stamp that appears visually on the page instead of within the tag: https://boffosocko.com/2012/06/17/big-history/#Added%20material
seekr joined the channel
#
[tantek] [chrisaldrich] add yourself! https://indieweb.org/updated#IndieWeb_Examples
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] also, unrelated, [chrisaldrich] the reading progress section on that page is cool!
#
GWG [snarfed]: There were some great progress discussions on the HWC on Wednesday. You should pop on next week
#
[snarfed] i should!
#
[snarfed] not a personal itch, but fun too see
#
GWG [snarfed]: We would love to have you regardless
#
[chrisaldrich] tantek, already on it with a tab open, but it may take a bit until I've got the house moving and coffee brewed. 🙂
plutes, wolftune and fuzzyBear joined the channel
#
fuzzyBear Hey guys, Iw as wondering if someone would like to explain a couple of things to me that I am just not understanding
#
fuzzyBear (im really new to all of this )
#
fuzzyBear So, studying JS atm, and I am coming accross fundimental issues in my own understanding, I think I just need someone who know their shizz to tell me how to change up my approach
#
[LewisCowles] fuzzyBear, the best place to ask is #indieweb-dev channel
#
[LewisCowles] if you're on IRC it might be called indieweb-dev
KapiX joined the channel
#
fuzzyBear cheers dude
funwhilelost and markopasha joined the channel
#
[LewisCowles] Btw fuzzyBear it wasn't a brush off. I notice I've not seen anything in #indieweb-dev
wolftune and gRegorLove joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] This thread feels like it belongs somewhere, but I'm not sue which page https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1258796153681833985?s=20
#
@seananmcguire Every time I go viral--even semi-viral, where something tops out around 1k rather than going over--social media becomes a nightmare hellscape filled with people being assholes just for the sake of being assholes. (twitter.com/_/status/1258796153681833985)
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] What is abuse?
#
Loqi Report abuse (AKA report inappropriate) is a feature in many (most?) silos for notifying the silo owners that a specific user, post, or comment is abusive https://indieweb.org/abuse
#
[chrisaldrich] related, but maybe not there...
#
[chrisaldrich] What is viral?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "viral" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "viral is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
[chrisaldrich] what is moderation?
#
Loqi Moderation is the process of holding comments for review by a human, and sometimes a source of frustration when a comment is written on another site that the commenter has no control over https://indieweb.org/moderation
#
[chrisaldrich] I would think we'd have a UI related page about the burdens placed on people by poor design decisions or lack of functionality in social media or other products.
#
[chrisaldrich] something with a solid pejorative name... nothing is coming to me....
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] active neglect for a standard of care... or a dramatically more proactive version of _insouciant_
#
[chrisaldrich] iniquitous or reprehensible design?
[tw2113] joined the channel
#
[tw2113] out of curiosity, how many of you have jobs that allow regular focus on all this self ownership and indeweb based things? Asking because I feel like it’s a side task for me, and I don’t get to put a lot of focus on it daily, unless I was to very actively force it in my daily life
#
[tw2113] i’m here, but yeah, not much routine focus
#
aaronpk i don't get to spend as much time on it as i'd like for sure
#
jacky [tw2113]: so I always take like my lunch time to hang/relax and usually use a bit of it for this
wolftune joined the channel
#
jacky but when I'm done with my day and don't have anything else, I def get into it
#
jacky it was def easier when I was consulting (I worked only four days in the week so that last day was whatever)
#
[tw2113] i can always go “i’ll get some focused work this weekend” but then i just end up reading and listening to podcasts or some other media
#
jacky yeah, I've found it helpful to treat it like how I treat work - find something narrowish and use that to drive something out (to get that kick to keep working on things)
#
sknebel heh, back in uni I was a lot more productive re indieweb things too :D
#
[snarfed] i only realized how much free time i had after i had a kid and it all disappeared
#
jacky 😅😅
#
aaronpk oh no
#
nekr0z My job and other life endeavouts sometimes keep me from updating my site for half a year. I can't call myself a big participator in IndieWeb.
#
nekr0z But I figure: I'd blog and engage in social interactions via the net anyway, why not do it the IndieWeb way then?
#
nekr0z I mean, once you've set up the basics (markup, auth, webmentions, websub) you can just keep using it. You don't need to send every request by hand, that's what automation is for. And once you're set up, there's hardly any extra maintenance.
#
jacky ^
#
jacky automation++
#
Loqi automation has 1 karma over the last year
#
nekr0z automation needs more karma!
#
nekr0z automation++
#
Loqi automation has 2 karma over the last year
#
[tw2113] i’m liking the metaphors about sites being gardens, that i’ve read lately
#
[chrisaldrich] [tw2113] Have you seen the metaphor in relation to websites in general or is it in relation to wikis in particular?
sensiblemn and drkokandy joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] Some of them may relate back to this post: https://hapgood.us/2015/10/17/the-garden-and-the-stream-a-technopastoral/ which has references to Mark Bernstein’s 1998 essay Hypertext Gardens that you might appreciate.
#
[tw2113] website in general, though i can see how a wiki would fit in well
#
[tw2113] this is the one that i actually put up as a “bookmark” on Pirate Life https://joelhooks.com/digital-garden
#
[tw2113] bookmarking that one above [chrisaldrich] so i can get to it later
#
[chrisaldrich] [tw2113] If you want to delve deeper, there's also the recent IWC session: https://indieweb.org/2020/Pop-ups/GardenAndStream
#
[tw2113] ooh
#
[chrisaldrich] Which, in part, ties in with some earlier conversation of Tom Critchlow's posts who Joel Hooks also credits in his post. Small world...
[jeremycherfas] joined the channel
#
[jeremycherfas] It is curious, though, how the garden and the walled garden are a word and a world apart.
#
[chrisaldrich] I feel like the gardeners in the so-called walled gardens have all abandoned their work....
#
sknebel public park has very different tending needs than private garden?
#
[jeremycherfas] The manor house can not afford to pay them.
#
jacky yeah and usually isn't tended by the patrons
kensp joined the channel
#
jacky more like not by _every_ patron
#
[jeremycherfas] That’s a good extension sknebel. I hope to pick this discussion up again when I wake up tomorrow.
wolftune joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] As I'm looking at his post, Joel Hooks also mentions egghead.io and I recall that his colleagues Maggie Appleton and Ian Jones joined us on that Gardens & Streams session.
#
[chrisaldrich] Maggie had a great thread about gardens and streams recently which I've bookmarked: https://twitter.com/Mappletons/status/1250532315459194880
#
@Mappletons Nerding hard on digital gardens, personal wikis, and experimental knowledge systems with @_jonesian today. We have an epic collection going, check these out... 1. @tomcritchlow's Wikifolders: https://tomcritchlow.com/wiki/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVrIC7WXgAMh96-.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1250532315459194880)
swentel, sensiblemn and drkokandy joined the channel
#
[tw2113] [chrisaldrich] since i’m sure you post it to your general RSS, i likely saw this at the time and checked it out then
#
[tw2113] plus i recognize the avatar right now
#
jmac Heh, I had just now wandered in hee to mention Hooks' post actually, but I see it's a current topic
#
jmac The website-as-garden metaphor is strong stuff. I like it
#
jmac Props to [chrisaldrich] for helping to push it. :)
#
jmac I've lately had thoughts -- crazy thoughts -- of making a webpage -- just a webpage! Not a blog entry, not anything with an <h2>-tagged timestamp right at the top! -- about a topic I'm interested in. I haven't had this desire since before 2010. (And I've been hosting my own blog since 2014.)
#
[chrisaldrich] I've slowly begun to realize that I've been mis-using (?) my blog like a wiki and alternately my TiddlyWiki sort as a blog. I am quite interested in coming up with ways to blend the two together in a more natural manner.
#
[chrisaldrich] I'm reminded of the Reeces Peanut butter cups commercials https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwGQ_w9lgHw
#
jmac "like a wiki" being your "commonplace book" concept?
#
[chrisaldrich] I want a melange of all of them honestly....
#
jmac My friend Brian indie-trolled me a few days ago by sending me a webmention in public, using my own software https://randomgeekery.org/note/2020/05/pondering-my-indieweb-guinea-pig/
#
jmac And I'm sitting here fretting because I have no way to respond other than hand-editing an HTML page on jmac.org and waving back. Which I could do, certainly!
#
jmac But all my automated tools are geared for my blog, which isn't set up for anything other than article-sized posts
#
jmac Really I should just put my head down and finish my own dumb toolset first and ignore the Kicks Condor in my head who is muttering in disapproval that I'm cowardly hiding in protocol implementation instead of *writing on the world wide web* which this whole thing is supposed to be about
#
[tw2113] for a moment i thought that was Merry and Pippin from Lord of the Rings
#
Zegnat That is sort of what doubleloop has been talking a lot about, right, [chrisaldrich]? Where the stream meets the garden and vice versa. Stuff we create goes in so many different forms that no single medium is right
#
[chrisaldrich] Indeed, it's been a conversation going off and on in a variety of places and people over the past year or so? (Or at least that I've noticed.)
#
[chrisaldrich] It feels like we're inventing something new, but it hasn't crystallized yet and doesn't have a name.
#
[chrisaldrich] jmac, sounds like Kicks Condor to me!
#
[chrisaldrich] The web seems to be a good base medium, but we're too constrained by the ideas of blogs and wikis... reframing it as gardens and streams is a bit more freeing.
#
[chrisaldrich] One does sort of have to love the idea that https://stackingthebricks.com/how-blogs-broke-the-web/ has no published date shown on the page, but I only noticed because I wanted to know what it was...
wolftune joined the channel
#
jacky https://stackingthebricks.com/how-blogs-broke-the-web/
Hory joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] doubleloop++ for the whimsy of the name "Neil's Noodlemaps" for https://commonplace.doubleloop.net/
#
Loqi doubleloop has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
[KevinMarks], kensp, xsteadfastx, wolftune, [tw2113] and fuzzyBear joined the channel