#indieweb 2020-06-08

2020-06-08 UTC
[LewisCowles]1, samwilson, wolftune, [fluffy], [KevinMarks], beko, KempfCreative, KindTwo, jussi^, seekr, KartikPrabhu, [LewisCowles], gxt, [jeremycherfas], kensp, [snarfed] and markopasha joined the channel
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petermolnar wasn't in front of the screen yesterday to follow up properly; so: [tantek] added a criticism to squarespace yesterday as: "default blogs do not provide an archives link for browsing archives by year / month etc.". I don't provide that either, and I'd like to understand what makes that criticism valid and if so, what makes archives a requirement.
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petermolnar my stance: strictly speaking blogs are inheritently chronological, but these days sites with say, a series of technical how-tos fall under "blog" category as well, making the terminology a bit blurry. With these kinds of sites archives may or may not make sense at all, because chronological ordering for that kind of content is irrelevant.
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petermolnar (in other news I'm craving for an IRL IWC :( )
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[KevinMarks] Well, knowing when a technical how to was written can be useful too, as tech changes over time
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petermolnar that's debatable - if something was written for a certain specification which is since superseeded, and the versioning is not indicated in the article (eg how do X in HTML), than maybe; otherwise it's not: you can either still do it the way, even if it's oldschool, or the versions are indicated (how to do X on Ubuntu 9.04), in which case it's obviously outdated.
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petermolnar also, I'm not saying the article shouldn't have a date/timestamp
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petermolnar it should
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petermolnar the question is why the lack of year/month/etc archives call for criticism
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nekr0z Hmm. Is it normal that whatever I write in #freenode_#indieweb:matrix.org doesn't show up in IRC, but whatever is in IRC shows up in Matrix?
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b0000p112 hey!
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[LewisCowles] I agree petermolnar, but feel KevinMarks sage wisdom may also serve to catch more people if combined with the context you are suggesting. Personally I am not using date in URL. transitioning is fraught with work to fix-up old articles
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nekr0z The question is: why is archive neseccary? Isn't dt-published (on every page where author thinks it's relevant) enough?
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[LewisCowles] I think it's not necessary, but can see how it could be beneficial
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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aaronpk Yeah I also don't see why archive pages are necessary. That's just one way to navigate to content but there are plenty of others: search, tags, linking, etc
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[LewisCowles] Good morning jeremycherfas . Good Morning IndieWeb 👋
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[LewisCowles] tags++
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Loqi tags has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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[LewisCowles] aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 36 karma in this channel over the last year (228 in all channels)
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jeremycherfas Good morning [LewisCowles]
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[tantek] petermolnar, time based archive navigation pages are not a question of necessary per se but rather are very useful
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[tantek] I ran into this when looking up /silo-quits Future examples that were in the past
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[tantek] Eg one person blogged a while ago about an intent to quit & delete FB on a certain date then in the future but now in the past
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[tantek] If I their blog had archive pages I could immediately nav to the month that they were talking about to see if they did it. But they didn’t so it was a huge pain to keep clicking their sequential nav (previous posts) until I got to the right date range that used a lookup by some long number
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[tantek] They also lacked search which is why I added that criticism also
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nekr0z they could have also done it without explicitly blogging about it, that would be a problem for such a research, I imagine
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[tantek] Another use-case for archive pages, to be able to browse (non-sequentially!) the posts someone was making around the same time as a mother post, to better understand the temporal context of what was happening in their lives
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[tantek] nekr0z maybe. In this case they made a big deal of the specific date and encouraging others to also quit FB on that date and to spread it around
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[tantek] So it’s unlikely they would have missed another opportunity to make a big deal and advocate again
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[tantek] FWIW they chose July 4th of last year, US independence holiday, as a day to declare independence from FB
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[tantek] On a more positive topic, I found another 100 Days attempt!
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[tantek] [matthiasott] https://twitter.com/m_ott/status/1269728318221438979
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@m_ott ✍️ I’m writing a post every day. For 100 days. Day 10: Designing and Making https://matthiasott.com/notes/designing-and-making (twitter.com/_/status/1269728318221438979)
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[tantek] Kinda meta but figured I’d ask here, what do people think of adding his example to /100days?
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[tantek] Obviously [matthiasott] himself if he’s around should be the one to decide :) question is, how comfortable do people feel with adding someone as an (IndieWeb) example to page(s) who has blogged about the IndieWeb quite a bit yet isn’t a regular in chat
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[tantek] (Happy to take this thread to #indieweb-meta especially since another 100days example just showed up there)
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nekr0z I'd say chat participation is not a requirement to be a proper IndieWeb-netizen, so if the page is meant to reflect IndieWeb examples, restricting those to chat participants kinda defeats the purpose
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[tantek] Not a matter of restricting
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[tantek] But rather do you add someone without getting explicit permission?
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nekr0z [tantek]: I know it's a strange comparison, but you don't ask a scientist, or a politician, or a Formula-1 racer for their permission to add a Wikipedia page about them, do you?
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nekr0z I mean, adding their home address would be a little overboard, I agree, but really, I mean, I'm not asking anyone's permission to put a link to their page or post in my blog, do I? They have, presumably knowingly, made something available online to the unrestricted number of people, didn't they?
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nekr0z If you don't want people to read and link to what you have written, you save it to a thumbdrive and lock it in a vault instead of actively putting it online, don't you?
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[tantek] The Wikipedia example if valid and yes those are “notable” people
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[tantek] See the distinction at /silo-quits#Who for example
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[tantek] *is valid
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aaronpk this conversation definitely should have been started in #indieweb-meta ;-)
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nekr0z Given the current state of IndieWeb affairs I'd argue that anyone who does it can be qualified as notable ;)
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nekr0z that's why we're discussing adding them in the first place, right?
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[tantek] Not really no. Point was to use the Wikipedia sense of notable
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[tantek] And that’s not a requirement but rather why your examples of scientists etc make sense but don’t extend to “everyone”
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[grantcodes] Me and some work colleagues are currently in the middle of 100 day challenges
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[tantek] [grantcodes] if it's public, please consider adding your 100 day challenge to /100days!
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[jgmac1106] I may resume my 100 day challenge even if that kinda breaks the rules, I was reading and quoting 100 scholars of color, but got worried my time on COVID-19 related teaching stuff would lead to a tokenazation
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[jgmac1106] like I wouldn't have the time to deeply interrogate the meaning or my privilege and just start copy pasting quotes...exact opposite goal
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[jgmac1106] https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/tag/quote
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[jgmac1106] I do wonder how close my poetry podcast is, must be near a hundred 100 episodes but I didn't do it daily until start of National Poetry Month
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[jgmac1106] though weekends often get uploaded on Mondays...bc my kids matter more than meaningless metrics
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[jgmac1106] https://jgregorymcverry.com/mypoetry#audiopoems
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[jgmac1106] ooh at 71 consecutive audio poems....as soon as I hit 101 I will declare doing a 100 day challenge
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[matthiasott] [tantek] Thank you, Tantek, for sharing my adventurous attempt here in the chat! 🤗 You have my permission to add it to /100days, of course – which I wasn’t aware of until now. (Although this adds a bit of pressure to actually complete the challenge… 😅) I could also add it by myself over the next days, if you want. Regarding the discussion around permission, I’m generally with nekr0z: Putting work on the Web implies the possibilit
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[matthiasott] others might link to it. I think what Tantek meant, though, is that adding someone as example to indieweb.org is more than a simple link but sort of an endorsement that some people might not be comfortable with. But although I’m not a regular in this chat, I’m an indiewebber at heart, so no worries. 😊
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[tantek] [matthiasott] welcome back! Definitely prefer you add your project yourself to /100days and speak up here if anything about doing so is non-obvious or otherwise challenging :)
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