#indieweb 2020-06-22

2020-06-22 UTC
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jmac Hi folks, I spent all evening writing a new resource page about Webmention, scratching an itch. I very much welcome thoughts & critique on it before I actually start linking to it from anywhere! https://jmac.org/webmention/
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Loqi [Jason McIntosh] Webmention: introduction, examples, and resources
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GWG Hi, jmac. Will have a look.
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Loqi jmac has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (11 in all channels)
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jacky jmac++
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jacky definitely will check it out
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[fluffy] jmac++ looks good and also I wasn’t aware of https://webmention.net/implementations/ — how can I get Pushl listed there?
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Loqi jmac has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (12 in all channels)
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sknebel [fluffy]: https://github.com/w3c/webmention/blob/master/implementations/index.md
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[jgmac1106] morning IndieWeb
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[itsjustk] morning!
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jmac [fluffy]: thanks! And yeah, I rediscovered that page myself, and made a note to add some of my own work as well
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jmac And, good morning IndieWeb, or “I chewed” as my phone’s autocorrect calls you
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jmac Looking forward to the online summit this weekend!!
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douno Sweet, I did not know there was a summit coming up this weekend
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jmac douno: https://events.indieweb.org/2020/06/indiewebcamp-west-2020-ZB8zoAAu6sdN
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jmac Technically not a summit, but standing in for the annual Portland-based summit that's normally around this time every summer
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jacky anyone heard of https://cloud68.co/?
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jacky the IndieWeb is mentioned
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jacky hmm I don't see Known on there or any IndieWeb "services"
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[KevinMarks] https://indieweb.org/write.as
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[georgenancejr] Does anyone know if there are any attempts at making a “Internet v2” ? Just curious to see someone try to rethink the use of HTML/css/js
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[georgenancejr] I guess I should clarify, any attempts that gained a little traction in the indie community
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[KevinMarks] what would it consist of?
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[KevinMarks] there are things that use those over different transports, like DAT
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[georgenancejr] Maybe something similar to SwiftUI.
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[georgenancejr] Never heard of DAT
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[georgenancejr] I’m more curious to see how someone would reimplement the entire http protocol given how much we learned about it since the 90s
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[snarfed] they have. QUIC, SPDY, HTTP/2
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[KevinMarks] what is dat?
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Loqi Dat is a protocol for transferring files peer-to-peer https://indieweb.org/Dat
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jacky SwiftUi doesn't seem too user friendly
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jacky I don't immediately see how that'd replace something like HTML/CSS (complimenting? sure)
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[georgenancejr] SPDY was built on top of http. Http2 needs to stay backwards compatible with 1 I believe ?
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[georgenancejr] [jacky] swift ui has much less markup then HTML. Imo it looks a lot cleaner .
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jacky But they'd still have to learn Swift, have a compiler that supports it and what not
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[georgenancejr] Plus the fact that the language is type safe
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jacky whereas with HTML and CSS; you can just open a browser on your computer; no compiler or type safety needed
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[georgenancejr] I was using swift ui as an example . I’m looking for just implemtaions of someone trying to rethink how the web could be .
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jacky totally
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vilhalmer it would have been neat to see some alternative browsers develop in the early days before it all solidified around moasic permanently
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vilhalmer since the intent was that you could display html in different ways as appropriate
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[georgenancejr] I love HTML/ CSS. Don’t get me wrong . But I think the idea of an XML like markup is a bit dated at this point
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jacky I think the closest "Web 4.0?" thing I've seen so far is probably from the Dat/Hypercore people (moving the 'control' to to user agents)
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[georgenancejr] In a perfect world , you would write in a single language for all UI .
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jacky Something being "dated" isn't a reason to toss it out completely though
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vilhalmer UI is rarely actually simple though
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[KevinMarks] that SwiftUI looks like Jade http://jade-lang.com/
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vilhalmer a new attempt something more wysiwyg for building web ui would be interesting
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vilhalmer I really liked using interface builder when I was doing mac dev
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[georgenancejr] Right . Html isn’t going anywhere . But it does use a lot of mark up to achieve something that could simplified . For example json is a better format then xml for apis. XML still exists . But 99% of all api is now json.
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petermolnar > In a perfect world , you would write in a single language for all UI - but you are. It's called CSS. HTML is a data format, not UI.
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[georgenancejr] Jade is interesting.
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Zegnat I see a lot of word in this discussion that feel very #indieweb-dev to me. Could I nudge people in that direction? :) Lets keep this channel focussed on people’s personal websites!
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[georgenancejr] HTML is a UI format too . <center> tag is proof of that
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[georgenancejr] Okay :)
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petermolnar _was_. center is deprecated, and not supported in html5
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aaronpk how did that not trigger loqi's jargon detector
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ndegruchy <blink><marquee><font size=12>OMG</font></marquee></blink>
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jacky lmfao
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ndegruchy I think that those are somewhat supported, even today. Lots of UI can have some level of abstraction through ShadowDOM, IIRC. Make your own widgets.
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ndegruchy Ah, depreciated.
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ndegruchy oop, level 0 is, level 1 is good
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petermolnar none of those are supported in html5
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KartikPrabhu how did this go from UI to markup so quickly!?
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petermolnar well... supported vs deprecated is an interesting topic
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ndegruchy Markup dictates the UI
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ndegruchy you can't make a form in CSS
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petermolnar KartikPrabhu: I stated that HTML is not a UI language, and forgot to add "any more" at the end of the sentence
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KartikPrabhu you can't make a form in JSON or plaintext either
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KartikPrabhu the UI for HTML form elements is something that browsers do
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petermolnar ndegruchy: http://www.csszengarden.com/ ;) (I never thought I'll link to this site in 2020)
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ndegruchy petermolnar: I used to love that site, back when I was a kid playing around with CSSv1/v2
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petermolnar yep, same here
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ndegruchy I say we all go back to gopher and render UI with Emacs Lucid
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KartikPrabhu also in an ideal world there would a lot of diversity in tools to build UIs. monoculture is not the "ideal"
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[snarfed] KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (10 in all channels)
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douno Thanks jmac for sharing the link
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yeet1 hi
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yeet1 </titLe><HTmL/+/OnpOintErENteR+=+a=prompt,a()%0dx//
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[schmarty] !kick yeet1
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vilhalmer yeeted
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[schmarty] 😆
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[tantek] Who else is excited about an IndieWebCamp West Week?
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[tantek] Anyone posting about it?
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jmac I'm excited! I haven't posted yet!! I will!!! After I do all this dumb work!!!!
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[tantek] Wait what I thought you were the one that posted about IndieWWDC? Did I misread that?
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gRegorLove I proposed a session for it! Might post some more notes beforehand. https://gregorlove.com/2020/06/i-am-proposing-a-session/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] I am proposing a session for IndieWebCamp West Coast: “Keeping Track of Books and Reading Progress.” I would like to discuss the use-cases and experiences of using our websites to: track books we want to read categorize (or “shelve”) books...
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gRegorLove More details about session proposals: https://indieweb.org/2020/West/Proposals
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