#indieweb 2020-08-20

2020-08-20 UTC
vivaria, rEnr3n0, jonnybarnes, kensp, kensp1, wolftune, jeremy, [tantek], KempfCreative, maxwelljoslyn, beko, [Emma_Humphries], KartikPrabhu and KempfCreative1 joined the channel
#
[tantek] in tonight's HWC, GWG showed off his IWC logo'd mask!
#
[tantek] the next logical question of course is can we take the eat your cooking, cook what you want to eat metaphor into sewing/clothing
#
[tantek] do you sew what you want to wear? do you wear what you sew to try it out and iterate on it?
#
[tantek] added to the Etherpad: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2020-08-19-hwc-west-coast
jonnybarnes joined the channel
#
maxwelljoslyn AFAIK there aren't wiki pages for individual HWC nights anymore, so I put the West Coast screenshot in a reply to the event page
#
maxwelljoslyn the <img> has u-photo, and gets picked up correctly with Monocle's parser preview, but doesn't show up on the events page -- is it b/c my "notes" are actually articles? :*(
rEnr3n joined the channel
#
[tantek] https://twitter.com/brb_irl/status/1296285641756434432
#
@brb_irl i made minor updates to my personal website. i hope you don't mind me sharing ~ i plan to update intermittently over the next month or two with other small tweaks a website is like a bonsai . . . http://katherine.land https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ef1TfIFUEAAkIN4.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1296285641756434432)
nickodd and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
aaronpk maxwelljoslyn: Strange, I'll have to take a look, I thought that should have worked
seekr, lucasban, jonnybarnes, rEnr3n1, gRegorLove, gxt, nickodd, markopasha, dckc, swentel, loicm, willnorris, voxpelli, genehack, mclemens, bigbluehat, ramsey, rEnr3n, raucao, jeremycherfas, KartikPrabhu, hirusi, anotheryou and [Murray] joined the channel
#
[Murray] Wow, on npr declining the GDPR/cookie request serves a page with just text, not even CSS. That's kinda great actually (and loaded _so fast_ compared to what I'm used to 😄 )
#
jeremycherfas Sure. A great feature.
jonnybarnes and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] I love that site
shoesNsocks, markopasha, KempfCreative, rEnr3n, [jgmac1106], wolftune, [schmarty], lucasban, dckc, nickodd, jonnybarnes, hirusi_, [fluffy] and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] Some great design resources here: https://twitter.com/yuuuanw/status/1295125412461256704
#
@yuuuanw 👋 Design Twitter, recently I started researching and saving design books written by women and people of color. It has grown into a collection that also includes books about research and content strategy. http://yuanwang.design/resources Spread the word if you find it useful. ❤️ (twitter.com/_/status/1295125412461256704)
wolftune, jonnybarnes and kensp joined the channel
#
mayakate[m] <[Murray] "Wow, on npr declining the GDPR/c"> https://text.npr.org/ for anyone curious who's given them cookie permission
wolftune, jonnybarnes, KartikPrabhu, [KevinMarks] and maxwelljoslyn joined the channel; nickodd left the channel
#
maxwelljoslyn aaronpk: thanks for offering to take a look, i was surprised too :)
Nuve joined the channel
#
Jeena1 I totally forgot about the fact that I have events on my website so I didn't host any event there since 2017 but today I remembered! https://jeena.net/events/26
#
Loqi The World's Largest Coffee Tasting https://jeena.net/system/events/header_images/000/000/026/big/wlct.png?1597955036
kensp, [tantek] and [schmarty] joined the channel
#
[schmarty] haha, very nice, Jeena!
jonnybarnes joined the channel
#
Jeena1 I also joined here via Matrix because IRC was getting more and more messy, now I at least can scroll up to reread what you guys talked about :p
#
[tantek] Jeena++ !!!
#
Loqi Jeena has 1 karma over the last year
Nuve joined the channel
#
[tantek] here's the idea I just had (needs some thinking through but pretty sure I wanted it, inspired by ndegruchy
#
[tantek] )
#
[tantek] public drafts
#
[tantek] among other things, while something is a draft it explicitly does not show up in feeds
#
[tantek] or streams in general, e.g. on the homepage
#
[tantek] it may show up discoverably in *archives*
#
[tantek] maybe even called out (with an icon or something) as a draft
#
[tantek] so in that way it's different from unlisted posts
#
Jeena1 it would need to somehow allow comments to be useful wouldn't it? But I guess it wouldn't be a problem with versioning, etc.
#
ndegruchy A sort of status field, or just a kind of "rough cuts" idea?
#
[tantek] if I do this it'll likely "force" me to make them have a URL date that is based on when I started it (created it?) not "published date", and I think I'm ok with that
#
[tantek] yes, like rough cuts
#
[tantek] jeena, yes it should still accept comments via webmention
#
[tantek] but that makes me wonder if I want a way to mark a comment as "resolved" (ala Google docs) on such "public drafts"
#
[tantek] which then gets to questions of /issue status!
wolftune joined the channel
#
Jeena1 I would like them to be able to somehow be connected to the version of the draft they were commenting on
#
ndegruchy Yeah, giving comments a status requires a bit of engineering, unless you're marking it on your own system and not trying to send it back ala webmention
#
[tantek] jeena yeah! we touched on that capability (but for wiki-like "pages") in HWC this past week!
#
[tantek] ndegruchy is your post in github and do you do that partly so you can accept pull requests for typos and such?
#
ndegruchy Comments with a pointer to a git/md5 hash of the draft
#
[tantek] or heck even people "helping" with adding links etc
#
ndegruchy [tantek]: Eh, more of "versioning", but yeah, those are things that could be useful
#
ndegruchy You could even just send in a mail formatted patch from git and I could apply it
#
[tantek] not sure about the strictness / fragility of being bound to a hash (e.g. in Google Docs, changes in other parts of a document don't make comments in one part less true / relevant)
#
ndegruchy document fragment, then?
#
ndegruchy That makes repeated areas kind of tricky to identify (think lorem ipsum)
#
[tantek] or maybe fragmention? that way when the linked to text changes, presumably the comment no longer applies!
#
[tantek] repeated areas tend to be rare in typical prose writing
#
ndegruchy True
#
ndegruchy (at least one hopes...)
#
Jeena1 I think UI wise it's ok to show the comments in the latest version but there should be a link to show the post how it looked like when that comment was made.
#
Jeena1 hopefully even with a diff ;)
#
ndegruchy well, hence the idea of comment at a diff/hash, but visually linked via fragment
floridafruitgeek joined the channel
#
ndegruchy so temporally, the diff/hash point, but fragment bound. Then you can layer the diffs on top, and as the fragment still exists, bring it forward
jonnybarnes joined the channel
#
ndegruchy I feel like we're in MediaWiki territory, but with Office style comments
#
ndegruchy I wonder if you could bundle up that kind of document into a gzip of git history or similar, and just parse out the latest revision with any comments
#
ndegruchy New document format :p
#
ndegruchy layer in Git LFS for pictures and attachments
#
ndegruchy HyperVersionText or suchlike
#
[schmarty] dev dev dev!
#
Jeena1 Hehe smells a bit like overengineering ;)
#
ndegruchy Jeena1: Obviously all the other standard document formats are terrible, lets make a new one
#
mayakate[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/UobdFgYnAcYOMEoqiUNpsEXd/message.txt >
#
ndegruchy I imagine corruption of said document would be pretty ugly to try and untangle, though depending on how bad, you could parse out commit entries and recover that
#
Jeena1 I like how Confluence handles inline comments.
#
ndegruchy mayakate[m]: Quotebacks are really cool. Though I wish they didn't have so much JS
#
ndegruchy mayakate[m]: Yeah, trying to link to fragments is one of those holy grail kind of things, though. Since content changes so frequently, it's usually not a reliable linking mechanism
#
ndegruchy As you mentioned with Chrome, you can get close, but if any of that text changes, it's broken
#
Jeena1 you could add nonvisible markers in your text.
#
ndegruchy Jeena1: Yeah, but that way lies madness
#
Jeena1 :D
#
Jeena1 The nice thing is that those would just move with the text if you insert something in front of them and they would be removed with the text if you remove the text etc.
#
ndegruchy I think I like quotebacks so much because they're a point-in-time copy of the information with a link to the source
#
Jeena1 yeah that is really a lowfi solusion
#
ndegruchy it works with how reality is. in an ideal situation, we'd never have to worry about the information being gone, because there would be some sort of ephemeral copy floating around with our reference point.
#
ndegruchy you could hide the referenced data in with the reference link... though you run into storage and complexity issues, as well as hidden metadata
#
ndegruchy OOOF, beaten to the punch by 5 years: https://academy.realm.io/posts/altconf-wil-shipley-git-document-format/
#
ndegruchy (Git Document Format0
#
[schmarty] this is fascinating but definitely pretty deep in dev land. can y'all continue it in #indieweb-dev ?
lucasban and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
[tantek] ^
#
[KevinMarks] Fragmention is good for this as it both moves with the text, and shows the text that you were commenting on for later drafts
lucasban, pierre[m]3, cjw6k, KartikPrabhu, jonnybarnes and ludovicchabant joined the channel