#indieweb 2020-08-22

2020-08-22 UTC
jonnybarnes, KartikPrabhu, rEnr3n, wolftune, KempfCreative, myfreeweb, jimpick, emilbayes_ and mattl joined the channel
#
vika_nezrimaya OH NO
#
vika_nezrimaya I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING
#
vika_nezrimaya oh wait better take this in #dev
ndegruchy, ecobos, [tw2113], wolftune, jerimy and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
jerimy /exit
wolftune, jonnybarnes, rEnr3n5, nickodd, KartikPrabhu, marcusr, dckc, rEnr3n, dhanesh95, [jgmac1106], jeremych_ and [James_Gallaghe] joined the channel
#
[James_Gallaghe] Morning everyone! [aaronpk] referred me to this chat. I'm the webmaster of jamesg.app and a proud member of the IndieWeb webring. I'm looking to talk with new people about the IndieWeb so feel free to reach out if you're ever looking for someone with whom to talk 🙂
vika_nezrimaya and kensp joined the channel
#
Zegnat [James_Gallaghe]: welcome! There are usually people around in these channels that will be happy to always talk IndieWeb :D
#
jeremycherfas Hello [James_Gallaghe] Good to know you. Taking a look at your Aeropress adventures.
#
[James_Gallaghe] [Zegnat] Great! One question I have is: is there anyone here who has experience building Webmentions into Jekyll? I'm thinking about doing it but the Jekyll generator documentation is not as intuitive as I would like (at least from what I have seen).
#
[James_Gallaghe] [jeremycherfas] I must admit that I missed brewing this morning. I've been using beans from the local superstore up until now. A new brew from my local roastery just came which I'm hoping to try out soon.
#
jeremycherfas I do an inverted brew, water heated to 80°C, cup warmed but not Aeropress. I'm getting low on papers though, and considering switching to a metal filter. Any thoughts?
#
Zegnat https://indieweb.org/Jekyll may have some details on how people have been setting up webmentions for Jekyll. Links to some tools, links to several articles of people talking about their implementations
#
Zegnat So that would probably the starting point, [James_Gallaghe] :) I myself haven't touched Jekyll in a long time. But static sites in general are often discussed here. (Or more likely in the #indieweb-dev channel.)
#
[James_Gallaghe] [jeremycherfas] I haven't tried an inverted brew yet. I've been using the Stumptown Brew Guide as a starting point. As long as you rinse the paper filter (and discard any leftover water), I've had no trouble with any paper taste in the brew.
#
[James_Gallaghe] I was put off by how the instruction manual said something about the inverted method being less safe. I'll need to be more adventurous.
#
jeremycherfas I can't taste the paper either.
#
[James_Gallaghe] [Zegnat] Thanks! I'll need to take a look.
#
jeremycherfas Two stirs is one too many for me. I'm lazy. I just want a reasonable coffee.
#
[James_Gallaghe] My trouble with stirring is that the water seaps through so quickly. By the time I've stirred correctly, one quarter of my water has already poured through 🙂
#
jeremycherfas -> #chat
floridafruitgeek, wolftune, [manton], vika_nez`, [tantek], [tb], [fluffy], jonnybarnes, [schmarty] and nickodd joined the channel
#
[schmarty] Bringing some of the "personal domain" discussion here from dev because I think this is more generally relevant, but looking back to when I first got a domain it was a big deal
#
[schmarty] My first website was on AOL hometown for a couple of years because my parents used AOL. The first one on my own server (a hand-me-down 486 that had been the first personal computer in the house) served over my dorm's network on a .dy.kz subdomain. Again for a year+!
wolftune joined the channel
#
[schmarty] Looking back at my links page from those days: it was to a bunch of personal sites, almost all hosted as sub folders or subdomains on cheap/free services.
#
[schmarty] I snagged my first domain before I had my first cellphone and I was not at all confident about making the yearly ~$35 payments.
#
[schmarty] This story spans ~1998-2001 so obviously some of the landscape has changed. However my recollection is that as a huge nerd my barriers were not technical understanding but about being beholden to service providers as someone with no steady income.
#
[schmarty] Whew that should have been a blog post
#
[fluffy] Yeah, that’s exactly why I care about shared domains too. Similar history, and for the longest time my homepages were always on tilde pages where I didn’t have control over the server, and certainly wouldn’t have been able to get the admins to add a single blessed IndieAuth endpoint.
#
[fluffy] And that still covers a LOT of internet users today.
KempfCreative joined the channel
#
[fluffy] Even today it takes a lot of steps with technical expertise required to set up web hosting on your own domain and it takes fewer steps on a shared domain.
#
[fluffy] And way less technical expertise.
#
[fluffy] My parents rely on my expertise and patience to run their website on their own domain. Not all parents are so lucky.
#
[fluffy] Or people in general, really. We are in a very privileged minority. It’s easy for us to see how easy it is. For most people it’s not easy.
#
[fluffy] And for a lot of the world, $5/month is a LOT of money.
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] to be fair, there have been and are still good, usable domain hosting options for both free and cheap (order of $5/mo; understand your point): micro.blog, tumblr, wordpress.com, blogger
#
[snarfed] and at least one of those is obviously very indieweb friendly and compatible
#
[fluffy] Sure. And tumblr at least lets you declare your own IndieAuth endpoint.
#
[snarfed] still, strongly agreed, we need more! i like the attempts from people here, eg pine.blog and (forgot the exact name) i can haz website? something like that
#
[fluffy] Domain hosting has gotten way more common but it still isn’t universal. My usual go-to example still being universities.
#
[snarfed] ah https://i.haza.website/
#
[snarfed] manton++ mblaney++
#
Loqi mblaney has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (16 in all channels)
#
Loqi manton has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (64 in all channels)
#
[snarfed] yup, largely due to demand. demand is more for silos due to drastically better usability over the last ~10 yrs. good inspiration for us!
marjolein and [James_Gallaghe] joined the channel
#
[James_Gallaghe] I agree. There’s still a lot of friction when it comes to setting up a domain.
bltavares joined the channel
#
[James_Gallaghe] I’ve always thought that GoDaddy tries to push using your domain with them over using DNS. I always have trouble finding their settings. The terminology “A record”, “TXT record”, etc is quite technical, especially for someone who just wants to set up their first internet home.
#
[snarfed] totally. that’s been by far the biggest usability innovation in domain hosting for imho: integrating the registrar with the host.
#
[snarfed] sounds like godaddy maybe does it, also micro.blog, wordpress.com, dreamhost, maybe blogger, others. non-technical users should never have to touch DNS. (ideally shouldn’t even hear the term.)
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[James_Gallaghe] For sure.
#
[James_Gallaghe] Even if you understand DNS records, not seeing your site update immediately could be a cause for concern. That’s just a natural part of DNS but it took me years after first hearing the term “DNS” to really understand why.
jamietanna, bltavares_, [Joe_Crawford] and KempfCreative joined the channel
#
[fluffy] yeah namecheap and freenom both have pretty-okay integrated DNS hosting as well
#
[fluffy] also dreamhost
#
[James_Gallaghe] I’ve heard good things about Dreamhost.
#
[James_Gallaghe] Which provider do you use for domains?
#
[fluffy] Dreamhost was very good for me until it suddenly wasn’t 😕
#
[fluffy] I use namecheap as my registrar these days (aside from a handful of freenom domains), but I use LiNode’s DNS.
#
[James_Gallaghe] I bought most of mine on Godaddy and then moved them over to Vercel because I started hosting apps using Now. Now I’m hosting domains on my own server but Vercel hasn’t been that bad.
#
[James_Gallaghe] What happened with Dreamhost?
#
[fluffy] I ran into pretty major reliability problems and they kept on trying to sell me on their overpriced VPS service, and when I tried that it wasn’t any more reliable and they had some pretty critical flaws with their resource limitation implementation.
bltavares_ joined the channel
#
[fluffy] Their customer support also went in the toilet for me
#
[fluffy] They’re fine for a lot of things, but they didn’t grow along with my needs.
swentel joined the channel
#
[fluffy] And maybe they’ve gotten better since then, but since I was already hosting my email on LiNode I didn’t really have any reason for Dreamhost anymore. And I’m now realizing this wasn’t in #indieweb-chat, oops.
#
[James_Gallaghe] Oh no. I’ve been hosting my VPS on DigitalOcean and I’ve not once had an issue.
#
[fluffy] yeah I hear good things about DigitalOcean.
bltavares_, bltavares, jonnybarnes, kensp, [tantek], [dmitshur] and [tw2113] joined the channel
#
[tw2113] another approval of DigitalOcean from me, i've been hosting on them for years at this point
wolftune, jonnybarnes, leg, bltavares, [chrisaldrich], anotheryou and [tantek] joined the channel; leg and nickodd left the channel
#
[tantek] would be interesting to see the price of domain+webhost rental (min-mean-median) over time, as compared to say, the price of cell phone service rental (min-mean-median), and the price of smart phone service rental (min-mean-median)
#
[tantek] oh and throw cable/sat-tv in there too just to make the point. while there is some privilege to paying for a domain/hosting, it is a fraction of cable/sat-tv which doesn't seem to provoke as much criticism
#
[tantek] and domain+webhost is far more useful than cable/sat-tv
#
sknebel hm, our ISP in the late 90s had webspace included with the normal internet plans. <phonenumber>.at.<provider>.de (translated)
#
sknebel which is how I could toy around with HTML on the internet for no additional cost
#
[tantek] that's amazing
#
sknebel (or really early 2000s? let me dig out my first and only web development book, that should give me a clue)
#
sknebel hm, the book is from 2000.
#
sknebel praising this newfangled thing, the <div>s we all can use soon
#
sknebel yeah, okay, has to be 2000 for me personally
#
Zegnat I think I got rid of my HTML for Dummies during the last move.
#
sknebel I should probably post some bits of this book, its really fun
#
Zegnat Hmm, actually, I think I may have had "Web Design for Dummies"
#
[tantek] Zegnat, I would totally use a browser add-on that turned a set of tabs into a list of links
#
jacky hmm
#
jacky you can't register a domain or get a rented server at home if your home doesn't have service (and that's an unavoidable cost for most esp now)
#
Zegnat I have tested a few, but noticed too much flakyness, and I really do not want to risk losing any tabs. Thus writing my own, [tantek]. (OneTab comes to mind otherwise.)
#
jacky that's part of the reason why it's considered (or rather _should_ be) a utility
#
sknebel Zegnat: https://www.svenknebel.de/uploads/0/f/4/3/0dcc5d650d32ec675fbda827f60f0ca82808c504e7cdb2bb6fa79f9ba3ec.jpeg design very much of its time
#
Zegnat "HTML-Tuning" :D
#
[tantek] back in 1995-96 I think I used a "Learn in HTML in 24 hours" book by Laura Lemay
#
[tantek] maybe it was "Teach Yourself HTML in 24 hours"
#
[tantek] I think I've long since donated it
#
sknebel hm, no references to actual domain costs in there. Looked up a few issues of a dutch computer magazine in the archive from the time and there is a noticable lack of ads by hosting companies
jonnybarnes joined the channel
#
sknebel ok, 1&1 has press releases back to 1999 on their press website
#
sknebel 1999: internet package for 2.90 Deutsche Mark with DE domain and 10 MB webspace included
#
sknebel (internet for 0.049 DM / minute)
#
sknebel 2000: .com/.org/.net for 4 DM/month (+99 DM initial)
[Joe_Crawford] joined the channel
#
[Joe_Crawford] I carried around “Teach Yourself Web Publishing With Html 3.2 in 14 Days: Premier Edition” on the night shift working as a respiratory therapist in 1996/1997. Would write out HTML to try on a computer when I got home to the Mac I bought.
#
sknebel october 2000: they start offering SSL
jonnybarnes joined the channel
#
sknebel and com/net/org go down to 0.39 DM too
#
sknebel files idea for blogpost
jonnybarnes and kensp joined the channel