#indieweb 2020-08-31
2020-08-31 UTC
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# 
fuzzbomb ni
# fuzzbomb How do I create a user account on indieweb.org? I'm confused because I can't find a sign-up link. I found the Login link, but I'm confused about how to use it. THere isn't much help. Is IndieLogin.com the only option? Can I create a username+password login to indieweb.org?
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jeremycherfas Hi fuzzbomb. Ideally, you have your own website that you use to sign in.
# fuzzbomb I'm not ready to do that yet. I want to set up a user page on indieweb.org to keep public notes on how I build my site. I have not deployed my site yet.
# [James_Gallaghe] You could upload a single webpage on your domain with a basic h-card so that you can use indielogin.com.
# fuzzbomb What can I do on the indielogin.com service? Is there a list of accepted providers?
# [James_Gallaghe] Here are the setup instructions: https://indielogin.com/setup
# fuzzbomb I can't upload a single website yet
# fuzzbomb I've read all of that. I just want to know if it MUST be my own website.
# fuzzbomb Can I use any delegate(?) such as an account on another service?
# fuzzbomb THe problem is that the indielogin.com page is far too sparse. There is no guidance for what to do there.
# fuzzbomb I mean the login form, specifically.
# sknebel yes, you need to set up your website with one the things described on https://indielogin.com/setup to use it
# fuzzbomb Can the rel=me links be provided using HTTP headers, or must they be on the web page?
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# fuzzbomb If I have a github account, can I use that to log in to indieweb.org?
# fuzzbomb or some other service?
# fuzzbomb My problem is that I already have a website on my own domain, and I'm getting ready to replace it. I have my new website in a laptop dev environment. I'm not ready to replace the old one yet.
# fuzzbomb Does the URI entered into indielogin.com
# fuzzbomb get treated as a domain or a page? LIke, can I stick a rel=me on any page on any site?
# fuzzbomb or is it fussy about it being the homepage or such?
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[grantcodes] We should try and get something like about.me or carrd.co to support rel=me if they don't already
# fuzzbomb Indieweb.org used MediaWIki, right?
# fuzzbomb doesn't that have a sign-up form to make a username and password
# fuzzbomb So, If I stick a rel=me on a page using github pages, and put in the whole address to that page...?
# fuzzbomb I must say, I think this is all a big barrier to participating on indieweb.org. If I wanted to participate on any other wiki, I wouldn't have to jump through these hoops.
# fuzzbomb Is the MediaWIki sign-up process turned off?
# fuzzbomb Sigh. If I wanted to participate on wordpress.org or drupal.org, I wouldn't have to put up a website first.
# fuzzbomb I thought a big part of indieweb was learning HOW to put up your own website.
# fuzzbomb There's a chicken/egg problem there. Can't chart your progress on a wiki user page until you've done it.
# [James_Gallaghe] I agree. There should be a way to sign up, even if it is through IndieLogin, without having to have a live site.
# [James_Gallaghe] [grantcodes] I’m not sure if Carrd would work because I don’t know how much control you have over attribute names and classes. Maybe it would.
# [James_Gallaghe] Very true.
# [grantcodes] carrd.co at least has subdomains. There's also hundreds of similar services
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# fuzzbomb I'm stuck. I put a rel=me link on my github pages, pointing to my github profile. Then I entered my guthub pages uri in indielogin.com. BUt indielogin won't let me. in. The indielogin setup instructions say my URL (the github pages one?) must be in my github profile. BUt I don't see a way to do that. The github profile has a bio field, but it strips HTML tags out.
# fuzzbomb SIgh. I give up.
# [grantcodes] There is a link option on github.com
# [grantcodes] Just below the email field
# fuzzbomb I thought indieweb was about getting away from walled gardens, but it's just got lots of barrierse in the way.
# fuzzbomb do you not want participants?
# [grantcodes] You have you're website, you're already a participant 🙂
# [grantcodes] *your
# fuzzbomb I do. It's on github.io
# fuzzbomb I mean participate on the wiki
# fuzzbomb Thanks James_Gallagher, grantcodes, and Loqi. You've been very helpful and welcoming.
# fuzzbomb Oh is Loqi a bot?
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot/digital therapist present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/Loqi
# fuzzbomb Oh no worries sknebel. Please don't distract yourself from a meeting.
# [grantcodes] it would be odd to me if it doesn't work with a github.io address as long as it is a subdomain not a path
# sknebel so yes, of course putting a restriction on the wiki login is a tradeoff. But it's one that generally has worked quite well. i.e. no spam problems at all, unlike other wikis in the community were we had massive issues, it's primary purpose is documenting what people are doing/working on on the websites they have set up - so they can normally access it.
# [grantcodes] Just hardcoded block?
# fuzzbomb Still no success. I found the URL field on github profiles that grantcodes mentioned.
# fuzzbomb so username.github.io has a rel=me link pointing to github.com/username
# sknebel so fuzzbomb please don't take that as a "we don't want you here" or "we want to get in your way", but just see editing the wiki as a not-so-important side thing for now. Get your website up on your domain, then you can write about it on the wiki. If you need help along the way, we are here :)
# fuzzbomb and github.com/username points to username.github.io
# fuzzbomb So those are following the indielogin setup instructions I think.
# fuzzbomb Then I use username.github.io on the indielogin form, and it finds whatever it's looking for, and I walk through the github authentication process.
# fuzzbomb Then I was redirected back to indieweb.org but I am not logged in. It fails silently.
# fuzzbomb Measures to avoid spam are fine as far as they go, but if it keeps a real person from joining in, I'd say that's a poor tradeoff.
# jeremycherfas Sorry you are having difficulties fuzzbomb I would only say that the point about editing the wiki that sknebel makes is that currently you cannot edit the wiki. I understand you wanting to document the details of how you are setting up your site, and there is nothing to stop you doing that on your current development site. When that goes live, you will be able to either syndicate to the wiki or else, possibly more useful, point
# jeremycherfas to it as an example on the wiki.
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# fuzzbomb Well I've enjoyed reading other people's indieweb user pages. That's why I thught it would be a good place to do it.
# jeremycherfas It will be!
# jeremycherfas And it will be much more useful to the rest of us when we can go and take a look at what you have done instead of reading about it.
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# [tb] Good morning folks!
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# [James_Gallaghe] Morning, [tb]!
# [tb] o/
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[jgmac1106] I never saw this group as "reinventing the wheel" https://meow.social/@claude/104770735804495147
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# [jgmac1106] it's more recognizing the wheel works fine but everyone building on top of working technologies makes our wheels less effective...we need to get back to the wheel
# [jgmac1106] fluffy++ for posting positive in the replies
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aaronpk there's barely any references to real names on the wiki at all https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?search=%22real+name%22
# [jgmac1106] we should change the dfn on https://indieweb.org/anonymity you can buy a domain under pseudonyms correct?
# aaronpk https://meow.social/@claude/104770808005804503 "Maybe it doesn't seem to insist so much on real names (and photos) specifically..."
# Loqi [Claude LeChat] @fluffy Right here: https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started#Set_up_your_home_page Maybe it doesn't seem to insist so much on real names (and photos) specifically, but it's very much implied throughout. See the /h-card page, or better yet /homepage
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# [tb] Speaking of h-card — going back to the GPDR/privacy discussion from before, what would folks here consider to be an acceptable subset of an h-card to persist to your own database during things like citation lookups and whatnot?
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[fluffy] Also looking back in scrollback, the conversation with fuzzbomb i think points out that the whole indielogin.com thing is a pretty big source of confusion. People seem to often have the impression that’s the one and only way to set up IndieAuth, and then there’s confusion over what IndieAuth even is.
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# [fluffy] When I took a UX class in college the professor started the semester with a pretty cool demonstration: he showed us a picture that was just s as bunch of random blobs and asked us what we saw. Nobody could see anything meaningful. Then he overpaid the image with an outline showing that it was a cow. Then he took away the outline, and nobody could un-see the cow.
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# aaronpk https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started does a pretty good job tho
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# aaronpk some interesting design changes in Twitter's signup UX that suggest they are seriously deprioritizing the concept of usernames https://tinysubversions.com/notes/twitter-usernames/
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jacky a case for using your own domain as a link aggregator: I type in https://jacky.wtf/books more than I type in https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/11273359-jacky
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# Loqi [indienews] New post: "How IndieAuth works" https://blog.taoetc.org/how_indieauth_works/index.html
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[chrisaldrich] For those building and consciously designing social readers, Nicholas and Robin frame some interesting design questions in these two related articles: http://www.roughtype.com/?p=8724 and https://www.robinsloan.com/notes/orthographic/
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[tantek] E.g. people are using it: https://twitter.com/search?q=sites.google.com
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# [tb] My wife is a HS teacher but isn't allowed to use sites (the district does use G Suite) because they want them to use the main LMS they have
# [tb] Huh they don't seem to be banned from my work's G Suite but I've never had anyone at work link me to one or come across one myself
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# [tb] Ah yeah I've heard of that
# [tb] IIRC back in my home state, the CS courses at the state universities were all .NET/C#/VB instead of Java for a similar reason
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# kevinsan I am looking for directories of indieweb sites - I can't find anything on indieweb.org. How do you guys address the problem of discovery?
# Loqi Discovery is a variety of methods for finding content, websites, communities, or people to follow on the web including search, directories, recommendation engines, tags, or other serendipitous methods https://indieweb.org/discovery
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# [snarfed] kevinsan: also for indieweb specifically, https://indiemap.org/ and https://indieweb.org/chat-names . (neither is really for discovery UX though)
# kevinsan thanks all. a few interesting links in there. the indiemap project looks like a good basis for building an index
# kevinsan are there any licensing restrictions on this data?
# [snarfed] also see https://searchmysite.net/ , cc [michael_lewis]
# kevinsan thanks [snarfed], that's pretty much what I had in mind when I asked.
# jacky https://dnsimple.com/dnsound is my favorite toy
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# [chrisaldrich] Is anyone interested in committing to help organize or volunteer for an IWC East? We're chatting in #indieweb-meta about potentially either November 7/8 or 14/15 /Planning#North_America_East_.28Online.29
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# [chrisaldrich] I tinkered around with Google Sites a year or two back, just to see what they offered. I think I've only come across a few sites in the wild using it (two graduate students in the humanities, and one PI with a lab-based website if I recall).
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