#indieweb 2020-09-20
2020-09-20 UTC
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nekr0z I beautified (a tiny bit) person-mentions on my site - https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/posts/2020/indieweb-glue/ I am very proud of it, being neither a programmer nor a web developer by trade.
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[Chaitanya] nekr0z: that came out pretty good!
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petermolnar [snarfed]++ for that post
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VioletPixel Which post?
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# petermolnar it's an interesting chain of thoughts
# petermolnar and from many perspective, I'd agree with it - had musician had the way of selling every album of their on bandcamp, we won't have a need for second hand music, from which the artists don't benefit
# petermolnar these days, with most music venues still closed in the UK, it'd certainly make a difference
# VioletPixel Ah, yeah, I saw that go by earlier. It is interesting to think about things that way. It would be nice to live in a world that rewarded creative people more for their work by striking a better balance between the work the do and the value people get from it.
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[jgmac1106] not sure artists don't benefit from secondary sales, caveat almost all the artists I listen allow and encourage audience taping and sharing music for fee
# [jgmac1106] but to me right to sell is connected to right to repair. I buy art I want to own it not license it
# [jgmac1106] I buy a tractor John Deere shouldn't be able to tell me I can't repair it, just wrong
# [jgmac1106] physical media IS better for artists currently in 2015 LP sales paid out 416 million in royalties...versus 385 in streaming royalties....the LP sales a fraction of the sales
# [jgmac1106] Streaming is 80% of music revenue, physical media about 9%....but physical media pays out more in royalties.
# [jgmac1106] around 8 billion in streaming revenue in 2019
# [jgmac1106] To me Own Your Media also about feeding our artists
# [jgmac1106] ....now I really need to get me music back on my website and looking for a solution. I was using OwnCloud but they only allow a 1,000 folders.
# [jgmac1106] I might just throw them all in a folder and not even bother with an interface..I use subsonic to stream on Android from my server...I did like the tools the OwnCloud music apps had
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# nekr0z "The author who used to want everybody to hear his song is not destroying his music with his own hands (I've seen the authors throwing "counterfeit" disks under a bulldozer on TV) so that people that didn't pay money to the author wouldn't listen to it. It turns out the music exists only to make money for its author! That's quite a perverted understanding of both authorship and music, if you ask me."
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Leveraging IndieWeb to Avoid Storing Others' Data" https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/posts/2020/indieweb-glue/
# [jgmac1106] nekr0z agree I think openly licensed music can be profitable because the focus isn't on profit.. "Old Town Road" anyone?
# [jgmac1106] nekr0z++
# Loqi [indienews/ru] New post: "Зачем хранить чужие данные, если есть IndieWeb?" https://evgenykuznetsov.org/posts/2020/indieweb-glue/
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jeremycherfas Hello IndieWeb
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# jeremycherfas Howdy zegnat What are you up to?
# jeremycherfas I'm still trying to migrate away from Aperture for photos, with no great success.
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# jeremycherfas Sorry about the cancellation.
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[schmarty] nekr0z: very neat progressive enhancement! as a heads-up, firefox on my machine blocks the injected data URL SVG saying it violates your site's Content Security Policy! 😅
# [schmarty] oops i guess that's -dev talk!
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# [schmarty] nekr0z: seems like an img-src allowing data: could fix it up. from the MDN it kind of makes sense that data: sources would not be allowed by default 😁https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Content-Security-Policy/img-src
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# curiousaboutindi question: how can indie web actually be anti-corporation if Google sponsors their events?
# curiousaboutindi how can we actually trust it?
# curiousaboutindi this is a genuine question, not an attack, I really want to know what the ins and outs of this are and if this is actually legit and independent from the overlords.
# curiousaboutindi Google and Mozilla's logos are listed at the footer
# curiousaboutindi but like, that doesn't make sense does it? why would Google sponsor the Indie Web movement? Who is accepting that money? Who HAS accepted that money? It doesn't line up and is a major red flag
# petermolnar curiousaboutindi hi to you as well. Being anti-corporate is not one of our primary goals, it never was. The goals are on https://indieweb.org/why - we'll leave the anti corporate fight to others.
# petermolnar It's also up to an individual to decide whether or not they want ot use a service.
# curiousaboutindi I did read the why and that's why I am asking about this
# petermolnar To answer your question: I don't know of any indieweb event I've attended to since 2013, that was "sponsored", other than being allowed to some rooms for the indiewebcamps.
# curiousaboutindi If Google is giving Indie Web money and we're trying to break away from the silo, then why are we accepting Google's money? Hod does that make sense?
# petermolnar yes, that is sponsoring, but we never received money, did we?
# curiousaboutindi Interesting
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Zegnat I think monetary sponsorship is all going through https://opencollective.com/indieweb now and you can see there who are the top contributors.
# curiousaboutindi Thank you for the link
# petermolnar curiousaboutindi now, about money: https://youtu.be/cKA35IrcEvo?t=19
# curiousaboutindi petermolnar -- love it and loved that guy!
# petermolnar :((
# petermolnar :D
# petermolnar double + and double - are karma indicators here
# [schmarty] petermolnar++
# curiousaboutindi Zegnat Thank you, yeah I'd be really interested to know what the explanation is. It's just that from my understanding the Indie Web is pretty much an alternative to everything Google, Facebook, etc -- so I was weirded out to see the logos and that does not line up. Because again... why would Google support the Indie Web unless there was something in it for them (even if it's just buying lunch -- there had to be hoops for that money to go
# curiousaboutindi through and you KNOW that all of that is tracked and monitored and there is nothing that does not have an agenda) We need to be vigilant if we are trying to start a legit Indie Web revolution! These corps and people are powerful, otherwise there wouldn't be an Indie Web to begin with
# petermolnar A story from my life: many moons ago I used to go to parties where the music ranged from gothic through industrial to aggrotech. At one point some of our resident DJs were asked to play at a mainstream music venue in the heart of the city - it was a surprise to everyone. When it happened, I ended up sitting facing the door, watching the horror sinking in to the vanilla crowd getting in, realizing it's not the usual thing going on. I do
# petermolnar n't even know how many people I had to tell that no, this really not a satanist event.
# petermolnar Think of companies sponsoring something like indieweb the same: a venue, that was too lazy to understand what they signed up for - or, on rare occasions, their taste is somewhat aligned.
# petermolnar In the end, at the 4th DJ, they were told to tone it down a bit, so they went for some less gory techno. The lesson here: our DJs were paid, the venue seemed to have no idea what they signed up for, yet we still got to introduce some really out of the normal music to people who'd normally never had faced it.
# petermolnar as for the technicality: no, indieweb is not the opposite of silos. Silos can be useful as hubs, as boosters; many here syndicate (cross-post) to silos.
# curiousaboutindi Ah ok, I didn't realize that. I thought it was more radical than that
# petermolnar if it was, I believe we'd have a manifesto around it. As far as I know, we don't :)
# curiousaboutindi I get it, I just don't believe Google is as ignorant as that club
# curiousaboutindi Cool, well, I'll leave you to it
# [schmarty] what are principles?
# Loqi The IndieWeb Community is largely based on principles (AKA tenets) such as own your data, scratch your own itches, build tools for yourself, selfdogfood, document your stuff, open source your stuff, UX design is more important than protocols, visible data for humans first and machines second, platform agnostic platforms, plurality over monoculture, longevity, and remember to have fun! https://indieweb.org/principles
# [schmarty] closest thing to a manifesto here, probably
# [schmarty] and re: organizations like google - an organization is a super-organism run by human beings. google is enormous and there is not a single united mind there keeping track of everything it does.
# curiousaboutindi A thought: you might be giving them too little credit, but that is just a thought-seed
# curiousaboutindi Anyway, thanks for your info and responses, I appreciate it
# petermolnar curiousaboutindi: btw, do you have a website?
# jeremycherfas Personally, I am not anti-corporate although I am against surveillance capitalism.
# curiousaboutindi petermolnar why do you want to know if I have website? am I that interesting to you
# curiousaboutindi jeremycherfas corporations are all surveilling you. your sentence contradicts itself. ya'll gotta wake up. ok goodbye!
# petermolnar the whole goal of indieweb is to have a website.
# jeremycherfas Only that having a domain is a starting point for most things indieweb
# curiousaboutindi you don't think I got that?
# petermolnar I don't know, that is why I've asked if you have one :)
# jeremycherfas See ya.
# petermolnar > corporations are all surveilling you - that is a bit too radical view, don't you think? I'm pretty sure there are still corporations out there, just going by, doing business, manufacturing goods. Things like Patagonia (the outdoor gear maker) comes into my mind; Lowa, Alt-berg, both shoe & bootmakers, etc.
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# lahacker curiousaboutindi: what browser do you use?
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[chrisaldrich] Zegnat++ for encouraging people to syndicate to news.indieweb.org and for listening nekr0z++
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# [chrisaldrich] Does anyone post about studying on their websites?
# [chrisaldrich] What is study?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "study" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "study is ____", a sentence describing the term)