#indieweb 2021-01-23
2021-01-23 UTC
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Loqi metrics is in the context of the IndieWeb a type of post or a summary page that documents measurements of a personal activity such as exercise, travel, food, or acquisitions https://indieweb.org/metrics
# Loqi analytics is the collection, analysis and reporting of a websites traffic https://indieweb.org/analytics
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[tantek] analytics << Criticism: waste of your time and your site readers time: https://twitter.com/jessevondoom/status/1352760588175364096
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@jessevondoom I like making websites without analytics. For starters they're noticeably faster to load, but really for some things you just don't need to care, so don't be a snitch to some giant centralized behavioral database? Just...stop caring about things you don't need to care about. (twitter.com/_/status/1352760588175364096)
# Loqi ok, I added "Criticism: waste of your time and your site readers time: https://twitter.com/jessevondoom/status/1352760588175364096" to the "See Also" section of /website-analytics https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=74340&oldid=72946
[fluffy], thelounge2447875, marcusr, coaltown2, pengolod, KartikPrabhu, a_chou, petermolnar, kensp, [jeremycherfas], wolftune, distopico, nickodd, dhanesh, leg, KapiX, deltab, nloadholtes[m], fredcy_, drhitchcock[m], marinin[m], jbove, rinfo, aciccarello[m], voxpelli, Mikaela[meow], zootella, ecrosstexas[m], petermolnar[m], calebjasik[m], sanae[m], Salt[m], smacko[m], cidney[m], cbradford[m], alvinsj[m], nekr0z, Matthew[m], Caleb[m]1, kolaente, voss[m], moftasa[m], lionirdeadman, schmudde, jdormit[m], jamietanna[m], astrojl_matrix, PaulB[m], benpa[m], [pioneer][m], Alex[m]10, swentel, BudaDude[m], freekurt, perflyst[m], BinyaminGreen[m], tgys[m], cli[m], JackyAlcin[m], reed, TeeKayZA[m], johnridesabike[m, sknebel[m], dor[m], Jeena and [colinwalker] joined the channel; leg left the channel
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[colinwalker] [KevinMarks] Thanks. I’m building in PHP and spent some time last night looking at it. I’ve reworked some fo the custom walker that I used on WordPress but am keeping it fairly simple for now.
# [colinwalker] The main issue I have is that my Likes are only sending as normal mentions (I’m using the indieweb mention-client-php). Not sure if there’s something wrong with my mf2 markup or what.
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# [colinwalker] heading there now
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petermolnar (this is a bit of -chat topic, but not completely) There were some news yesterday, namely https://swp.org.uk/press-release-facebook-shuts-down-major-left-wing-group-in-britain/ in which there's a sentence: "They are demanding to be reinstated immediately." On HN, I pointed out that FB is Zuck's website - of the can demand to be able to post there, can I demand to post on swp.org.uk? From the responses it seems there's a weird consensus
# petermolnar among a lot of tech people on the notion of "Facebook is the Internet equivalent of a public accommodation" - but as far as I understand, that is no legislaton around any kind of public facility or place online or virtually. Question: am I wrong, does anyone know of an online service being officially classified as public space?
# petermolnar *s/of the/if they/ ( I don't know why that typo happened)
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# petermolnar From a real world approach, I'd classify FB like the Royal Parks in Britain: it's not actually public space, but normally open to the public, as long as they follow certain rules, like, for example, no commercial photography on the grounds.
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[Raphael_Luckom] I think that's an interesting open question, like you described. From a pragmatic perspective, I wouldn't try to shut down anyone making the argument that it's a public utility--I notice that bigcos usually employ a strategy of "push as hard as you can and see what you can get away with", and by those rules of engagement, sure, why not try to get FB classified as a utility--but personally I don't think that's a fight worth having. Making
# [Raphael_Luckom] that argument goes against a huge chuck of legal precedent and even if you win, what next? facebook still controls _what facebook is_, and that's the next thing you'd need to fight about.
# [Raphael_Luckom] I think that the dynamics of big social media companies tend to distort conversations about private property and free speech. On the one hand, the fact that content is user-generated gives the companies a shield against regulations that apply to publishers (at least in the US) and the platform dynamics amplify the most hateful and inflammatory speakers who might not otherwise be able to take advantage of network effects. The result is that
# [Raphael_Luckom] any party can plausibly say that they're not responsible for the outcome of the combined system.
# petermolnar Related, and quite indieweb sounding: https://lincoln.metacannon.net/2021/01/facebook-disabled-my-account-after-i-criticized-them.html "Just after 8:54am, I copy-pasted the content of my latest Twitter post into a new post on Facebook. At 9:06am, a friend received a Facebook notification indicating that he needed to update his trusted contacts because I was no longer available." - do we need to get careful with manual POSSE to FB?
# petermolnar probably, though the mere existence of automatted, no appeal bans is bloodcurling
# petermolnar (one could even read that entry as an ad for decentralisation, as in "see, social media even banned me for saying it", but I don't want to go down that alufoil covered rabbit hole :) )
# [Raphael_Luckom] If you look at the ways that AI can amplify bias (by using patterns of biased behavior as input to recommendation systems, etc), it's plausible to imagine that even without human intention a recommendation might notice that certain types of content (sentiment analysis plus subject matter) are highly correlated with reduced engagement and therefore shadowban them.
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[schmarty] the room is open for the Respectful Responses Pop-up! zoom link here: https://events.indieweb.org/2021/01/indiewebcamp-pop-up-session-respectful-responses-SoijMaY9KH7P
# [schmarty] we'll be organizing and note-taking from the etherpad here: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/RespectfulResponses-Popup
# [schmarty] we'll give folks another 5 minutes or so to filter in
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# maxwelljoslyn I only knew half of these terms @schmarty
# maxwelljoslyn so at least for me, we're are off to a good start, learning wise
# maxwelljoslyn so at least for me, we're are off to a good start, learning wise
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# [schmarty] jacky: i'm not too familiar with it yet but i am excited that so much effort is going into it. possibly a lot of good ideas to learn from!
# [schmarty] jacky: agreed (on your interpretation and on the idea itself!)
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gRegorLove what is blockparty?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "blockparty" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "blockparty is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# coaltown2 any reason why I shouldn't be able to join #freenode_#indieweb:matrix.org from my own matrix homeserver? It says "Server returned 504 error" when I try
# maxwelljoslyn Let's take an event photo
# petermolnar coaltown that has been brought up before, and that is a question to ask from the matrix.org people
# coaltown patermolnar: Oh you know what? You're right. It should have occurred to me that the indieweb people don't run the irc bridge on matrix.org. Thanks!
# coaltown rereading my above comment, it looks sarcastic. But I assure you it is not
# maxwelljoslyn jacky: I got one, will upload
# maxwelljoslyn candid though :p
# [schmarty] haha oops sorry jacky. i just saw your note about intro! 🙈
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# gRegorLove what is filter bubble?
# Loqi A filter bubble is a narrowed personal perspective caused by algorithmic filtering of the content in one's social feed and the feedback mechanisms which are part of those loops https://indieweb.org/filter_bubble
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# gRegorLove "more popups", my how the web has changed XD
# [schmarty] gRegor 😂
# gRegorLove Great session! Thanks for organizing, [schmarty]
# [schmarty] tantek++ likewise and agreed about broader perspectives next time! also thanks for emceeing our zoom experience gwg++
# gRegorLove I'm gonna actually post on my site for the first time in I don't know how long with some thoughts about this session. Woo!
# [schmarty] gRegorLove++ yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas
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[chrisaldrich] [schmarty]++ Thanks for hosting us. And thanks for helping run the show GWG++
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[KevinMarks] If you know the blockparty team, can you encourage them to think about how they can provide the same kind of utility for non twitter sites? (I signed up, but as a privileged person I don't get enough harassment to test their tools)
# Loqi [indienews] New post: "webmention.js 0.4.0" https://beesbuzz.biz/blog/12555-webmention-js-0-4-0
# [KevinMarks] I am thinking mastodon and webmentions
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aciccarello[m] Is there an issue with the events ics feed? Google calendar showed today's event as 1 PM PT instead of 1 PM ET
# lahacker it was originally posted incorrectly.. maybe the updated time didn't bubble up to Google
# aciccarello[m] That could be it. I'm going to try subscribing and see what google does
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# gRegorLove aciccarello[m], I think that's it. Checked the current .ics file and the start time is correct.
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# [KevinMarks] i just got an alert for it too
# aciccarello[m] gRegorLove: I tried deleting and resubscribing but it still shows thee wrong time. But I'm inclined to blame that on GCal being lazy rather than the feed.
# gRegorLove Hm, odd
# [chrisaldrich] In trying to clean up my Twitter following list I've noticed that apparently some time in 2019, Twitter removed access to the parts of their API that allowed tools to do mass analysis of one's follower list. None of them seem to exist anymore, so it's all a massive manual slog now.
# [chrisaldrich] There's probably 1500 accounts I would unfollow, but there's no easy way to do that Spring cleaning now.
# [chrisaldrich] I'm noticing to a large extent that close friends and family aren't actively posting on Twitter anymore and large portions of others I'm following are mostly just retweeting content (and the largest part of that is politics related).
# aciccarello[m] Twitter got really noisy when they started pushing "Someone liked this tweet" "Tweets from people you follow follow" posts.
# aciccarello[m] Really reduced the amount of control you have over the algorithmic timeline.
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# [chrisaldrich] aciccarello[m]: Try some filers for your Twitter time line perhaps? https://twitter.com/search?q=filter%3Afollows%20-filter%3Areplies&src=typed_query&f=live
# [chrisaldrich] Some earlier this week were talking about including/not including notes in their main sites. Here's an interesting take: https://twitter.com/zachleat/status/1353075180415799300
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@zachleat Retired the Notes section of my web site and rolled all of the content into the main blog. If I’m being honest with myself, I think I implemented this because I felt like everything that went into my blog needed to be super polished. I’m outgrowing this feeling 😅 https://twitter.com/zachleat/status/1084822055110037504 (twitter.com/_/status/1353075180415799300)
# gRegorLove ^ I've felt tension around that separation myself, but haven't gotten around to building an alternative
# gRegorLove A lot of it was structural CMS separation when I first added notes, but I've since migrated and have a lot more control
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# [Raphael_Luckom] same. I also find that the solution is to care less about polish rather than separate stuff
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# gRegorLove Especially when I added the ability to give my "notes" a title, which basically makes them an article, in post type discovery terms
# [Raphael_Luckom] yeah. It's weird because I _do_ think that there are different types of content, but I don't think "notes vs posts" is the choice I want
# gRegorLove Last time I was thinking about it, I was thinking my homepage would have the latest article, pinned note(s), and say 10 latest notes, with a link to a stream of everything
# gRegorLove But I dunno, still feels too complicated so haven't acted on it, haha
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# [Raphael_Luckom] like sometimes I have an idea that seems interesting but I have this creeping feeling that it might be stupid or offensive in a way I haven't noticed yet, and what I really want is a way to say "I think this is interesting enough to want comments on, but I don't want to represent that this is a thing that I 100% endorse" Sometimes the things in that category can even have a pretty high level of polish.
# [KevinMarks] Certainly my old blog used to be much more like that
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[jgmac1106] The more you publish the faster bad ideas float down stream (says from recognized place of privilege).