#indieweb 2021-01-26

2021-01-26 UTC
pengolod, [tantek], [KevinMarks], KempfCreative, [Raphael_Luckom], ShadowKyogre, KartikPrabhu, coaltown1, alex11, jjuran, markopasha, anarchivist, bigbluehat, swentel, pikselaxam, rmdes_, moftasa[m], tgys[m], freekurt, Salt[m], pauho[m], BinyaminGreen[m], [pioneer][m], drhitchcock[m], kolaente, nekr0z, reed, marinin[m], astrojl_matrix, lionirdeadman, jamietanna[m], aciccarello[m], fredcy_, PaulB[m], BudaDude[m], perflyst[m], smacko[m], voss[m], cli[m], benpa[m], jdormit[m], sanae[m], Caleb[m]1, JackyAlcin[m], Matthew[m]2, alvinsj[m], Mikaela[meow], nloadholtes[m], coaltown[m], ecrosstexas[m], cbradford[m], johnridesabike[m, cidney[m], calebjasik[m], paulopinto[m], dor[m], sknebel[m], TeeKayZA[m], Jeena, petermolnar[m], Alex[m]10, hadvanX, hs0ucy_, hs0ucy__, elioat, thelounge2447875, [jgmac1106], deathrow1, kensp, schmudde, saptaks, DanC, dckc-, neshpion and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel; ShadowKyogre left the channel
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[tantek] does anyone here actually receive any income from the articles they post or POSSE to Medium?
leg, [Raphael_Luckom], ccchapman, lahacker, ShadowKyogre, [KevinMarks], hs0ucy__, schmudde, Jad, rsheftel8, [fluffy] and [timothy_chambe] joined the channel; leg and ShadowKyogre left the channel
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[timothy_chambe] ↩️ Nope.
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[timothy_chambe] ↩️ Great I'll check it out!
jjuran and [tantek] joined the channel; ShadowKyogre left the channel
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[tantek] what is clubhouse
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "clubhouse" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "clubhouse is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] ^ anyone here on this? seems like a silo that's picking up some steam & drama
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[tantek] e.g. https://www.sfchronicle.com/culture/article/On-Clubhouse-a-conversation-about-the-future-15886586.php
[snarfed] joined the channel
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[snarfed] it’s consistently had steam and drama for a while now, but it’s not very indieweb related
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[tantek] it seems to be positioned as close silo alternative to Twitter
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[tantek] closed* silo
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[snarfed] i thought it was primarily group audio chats, not text posts, and not nearly as public
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[snarfed] are they doing text now?
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aaronpk i haven't seen any text, only audio, no permalinks
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[snarfed] yeah it’s audio, not text
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aaronpk it's definitely interesting
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[tantek] ok so more like an audio-version of NextDoor then?
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aaronpk nextdoor? not really
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aaronpk it's kind of in its own category IMO
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aaronpk twitter is cloning it too now of course
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aaronpk https://techcrunch.com/2020/12/17/twitter-launches-its-voice-based-spaces-social-networking-feature-into-beta-testing/
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[Raphael_Luckom] great, I really wanted the _audio_ experience of twitter.
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aaronpk lol
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[tantek] lol
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[Raphael_Luckom] they should let the author of a tweet set its volume and not let listeners override it
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[tantek] wait it's audio but people can tell what race people are? so presumably has a video component?
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[snarfed] maybe profile pictures
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[snarfed] yup https://twitter.com/TaylorLorenz/status/1349940804052254721
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@TaylorLorenz The only “Future of SF” room listening to https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Erv0ASyW8AU5pD3.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1349940804052254721)
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[tantek] Oh yeah that article even compared it to NextDoor!
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[tantek] > joined the Clubhouse conversation early and says she was immediately struck by the tone. She described it as “Nextdoor on Clubhouse,”
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[tantek] yeah closing paragraphs in that article are kinda the problem
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[tantek] oops not closing, darn inserts in articles
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[tantek] “The conversation was completely tone-deaf and privileged,” said Tinisch Hollins, another co-founder of SF Black Wallstreet. “This really hits home for me because this has been a long-standing issue.”
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[snarfed] sounds like that first quote compared this one specific conversation to nextdoor, not clubhouse overall
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[tantek] right
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[tantek] though that's not a good sign. nextdoor started nice & neighborly too before it descended into what it is now
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aaronpk turns out any platform can have terrible people saying stuff on it
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aaronpk who knew
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[tantek] not just can, but will, without explicit design & community management to avoid it
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[snarfed] tantek++ aaronpk++
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Loqi tantek has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (78 in all channels)
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Loqi aaronpk has 26 karma in this channel over the last year (204 in all channels)
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[tantek] which is why this is *very* relevant to IndieWeb
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[snarfed] true enough
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[tantek] on topic for last weekend's Respectful Responses pop-up even
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[tantek] the least we can do is learn from bad examples of what not to do with IndieWeb tech/services, and frankly what (perhaps invisible to privilege) holes exist that need solving
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aaronpk there's definitely nice corners of clubhouse too
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jacky for sure
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[KevinMarks] clubhouse is Radio Over the Internet
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jacky radio with audience participation capabilities
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aaronpk yeah not radio
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aaronpk some of the "shows" are like radio call-in with multiple hosts, but there's a lot of convos with like 8 or more people talking at once
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aaronpk it's more like ham radio over the internet :)
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sknebel lol, German politics has really taken to it and there's a fair amount of backlash
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[tantek] I don't have a lot of faith in "talk radio" as UX, especially for anything resembling reasonable / rational discussion
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[tantek] (for non-US folks, "talk radio" here in the US is predominantly a bunch of right-wing / conspiracy extremism pretending it is reasonable)
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[Raphael_Luckom] I'd be pretty interested to hear why clubhouse is popular. like it seems pretty different than other social media. what makes that format attractive given the other options
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aaronpk i don't think "rational discussion" is necessarily a goal here
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aaronpk like, there are other things you can do on the platform
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aaronpk Q&A sessions with a panel, or literally just hanging out with friends having a chat
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[Raphael_Luckom] one possibility is that the popularity of new services has nothing to do with the ux differences, and actually it's just people _really wanting_ quieter and less crowded spaces, which every new thing is until it isn't
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aaronpk ^^
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aaronpk especially when those start as invite-only
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[tantek] and this is why it's possible to defeat seemingly undefeatable silos where "but all my friends are there"
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[tantek] hint: don't build for the "but all my friends are there" crowd, they'll be the last to join your service, literally only after all their friends are there
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aaronpk 😂
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[Raphael_Luckom] tbh that sounds like good advice but what characteristics define any other crowd?
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aaronpk "early adopter"
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[Raphael_Luckom] that makes sense...I'm not sure what "building for early adopters" means
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[tantek] it means you, cooking for yourself what you want to eat
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[Raphael_Luckom] thanks, that really helps clarify it. For some reason, when I hear "early adopter" I think about the guy who wants everyone to see his apple watch.
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[Raphael_Luckom] but I can also see how "people building themselves PCs in the 70s are in that category, and I find them more sympathetic.
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[tantek] and welcome to the origin story of Homebrew Website Club
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[snarfed] tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (79 in all channels)