#indieweb 2021-02-26

2021-02-26 UTC
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jacky no it's responding to XML
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jacky hence the nudge to #indieweb-dev
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[tantek] and XMPP
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[schmarty] Apple also added detailed listening stats. Like per-second/segment
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] of course she did. that thread tho
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[tantek] hmm https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/pbworks.com
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Taehl Hello all. Found the site-deaths page. Wanted to add an important bit of history that isn't mentioned there, but can't figure out how to edit the page...
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Taehl So I guess it's up to one of you to add this info: GameSpy was taken down May 31, 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GameSpy#Shutdown
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Taehl Not only did that stop a bunch of videogames' multiplayer to stop working, GameSpy was also, at the time, THE PLACE for distributing game mods. When it wen down, it took gigabytes worth of work for such games as Morrowind and Unreal Tournament, along with content from hundreds of other games. This was back when a gigabyte was a big deal.
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Taehl Fans for each of these games had to scramble to upload any of the missing mods from their personal hard drives to fan sites, but alas, tens of thousands of mods, the culmination of many hours hard work by at least that many people, was gone forever.
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Taehl I'd add all the relevant info to the site-deaths page myself, but I'm not going to sign up for an account just to make a single contribution.
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Taehl I'd add all the relevant info to the site-deaths page myself, but I'm not going to sign up for an account just to make a single contribution.
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[tantek] Taehl, there's no sign-up for an account! Use your existing personal web address to sign-in
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[Murray] Are there any indie web examples of chronological feeds? Thinking like Facebook's timeline; feeds that explicitly highlight month/day stuff, and preferably which pull in a variety of content types i.e. notes, photos, checkins, health data, watches, etc.? I've seen cleverdevil's excellent site, but looking for other similar stuff
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[Murray] Most people seem to have feeds for one thing or another, and might show them chronologically but don't actively display them with things like month/year/day in mind
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[Murray] also tried searching the wiki, but either I'm using the wrong terminology or it's not documented; all I find are silo examples (and very few of those)
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[KevinMarks] Adactio and indiana Jones maps?
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[KevinMarks] https://adactio.com/archive/2019/08
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Revisiting @wordridden’s old dorm at Mount Holyoke (where I was a stowaway for three months 23 years ago). https://adactio.com/images/uploaded/15754/small.jpg
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[KevinMarks] Click the map at the top and hit play
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[Murray] Hmm, yeah I more mean in terms of a diary or journal, but one that captures a wide range of activities. Unfortunately, I want to call this a "timeline" or "activity stream" but both terms appear to have been so heavily co-opted that it doesn't get me anywhere 😄
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[Murray] (coincidentally this is partially inspired by some of adactio's recent blog posts, so I have been deep-diving on his site for other patterns 😄)
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[schmarty] [Murray] aaronpk has day-pages that collect every post for a given day. For example https://aaronparecki.com/2021/02/22
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[Murray] thanks, I'd gone straight to Aaron's site and failed to find this! definitely considering something like this for "day" entries, but trying to come up with a UI that feels intuitive for larger time spans (doesn't need to show everything, just needs to be quick to drill through)
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aaronpk i don't have any navigation that would lead you to that page just yet
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aaronpk i also have month and year pages if you just keep removing URL segments
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aaronpk but i haven't figured out how to set up navigation to be able to find those from my home page
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[Murray] ah nice :thumbsup: this is much more what I've been looking for, will take a look over 🙂
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aaronpk date based navigation is tricky!
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[Murray] this is what I'm finding!
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[Murray] also, I assume this is all just individual posts that are date-stamped, and your site just pulls them all in to the relevant day/month/year, rather than having a specific post for each day?
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GWG I have a lot of URLs that I need to help people find on my site
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[schmarty] i also do month-based archives (with year/month selections in the sidebar), but don't drill down to per-day pages: https://martymcgui.re/2021/02/
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aaronpk all my posts other than a handful of what I call "pages" have a published date, and that's used to create these year/month/day pages automatically
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[schmarty] looks like all i do now is post cats and bookmarks and that is a-okay.
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aaronpk 😂
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[Murray] 🐱 🔖 🐱 🐱 🔖 <-- this is a feed I can get behind 😄
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GWG I have some auto generated archives I need to refine
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GWG Like /location, /photos vs /kind/photos, /onthisday and a few other really specific archive pages
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GWG Like /photos/kind/checkin which is only check-ins with photos
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GWG Or https://david.shanske.com/photos/location/bg/ Photos taken in Bulgaria
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GWG Hmm..that doesn't go down two levels..need to fix that
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[tantek] what is chronological feed
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Loqi chronological feed is a stream of posts in time order, typically in reverse chronological order of their published date (newest first), popularized on the web by journals and blog home pages, feed readers, and social media, until the latter switched to algorithmic feeds, frustrating many users https://indieweb.org/chronological_feed
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[tantek] ^ [Murray] (that was your question in your first sentence right?)
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[Murray] yeah, that's effectively what I'm after (checked that and /timeline out first)
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[Murray] but it's more than simply displaying in date order; it's more like whan Aaron is doing. It's about associating it with date AND displaying in date order (if that makes sense)
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[Murray] so, like, Twitter's chronological feed isn't what I'm after 😅 (what little is left of it)
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petermolnar e https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/feb/26/twitter-to-launch-paid-super-follow-function-that-lets-users-charge-for-content - ::insert 'the what' meme::
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[tantek] [Murray] do you mean something stylistic then? Like a big solid border between days in a chronological stream, so you can see the stuff in one day separated from other days?
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[tantek] or are you looking for something more calendar grid like rather than a stream?
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[tantek] petermolnar, despite the awkwardness of Twitter's design, I do feel there's something about being able to make individual posts a "paid" thing
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[tantek] especially if there were mechanisms for either paying one-off for posts or subscription, because some folks don't want to be bothered with "signing up" for one more thing to manage, and others don't want the cognitive load of deciding per article or not
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[tantek] there are other models too, like placing a "buyout" value on a post, and when folks have in total donated/contributed/paid that "buyout" level, the it opens up the post to everyone
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[tantek] that could be incentivized by then automating the "Thanks to patrons ... " which would link back to the folks who donated to "unlock" the post for everyone
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[tantek] perhaps while still allowing folks to "tip" for the post even when it is "free", and then recognizing them as "supporting" the writing as well
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[tantek] I feel there is some amount of this kind of good will / reputational incentivizing that merits some design experimentation
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[tantek] add more sparkly badges for higher donations/tips etc.
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[tantek] people like being recognized, and seeing their names on things they support.
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[tantek] museums have been using this model for ages (with donors, donor lists clustered by contribution amounts etc.)
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petermolnar I've never seen a tweet I'd individually pay for
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[tantek] right, I'm thinking IndieWeb here 🙂
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[tantek] I feel I've seen some tweets that make me want to say "lots more of this please" which tipping would be one way to express
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[tantek] like
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[tantek] what is delete your account?
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Loqi delete your account is an encouragement to delete your (silo) account, e.g https://indieweb.org/delete_your_account
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[tantek] I like the idea of being able to patronize a particular post though. That way you can express support for a particular topic / useful document without having to have it be support for anything/everything the person does
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[tantek] drive-by patronage as it were
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aaronpk youtube has that for videos too, they call it "applause"
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[KevinMarks] and medium has that for posts
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[jgmac1106] morning all
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[KevinMarks] [Murray] does 'logbook' fit for what you're talking about? Thats what I think of when I see aaron's day pages
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[jgmac1106] @petermolnar there is some weird hive/crypto network drives to pay for engagement...toook two minutes to turn into bad pryamid scheme
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[manton] Another advantage to tipping instead of members-only posts is that the posts can still be on the public web… I worry a little that a lot of “good” tweets will be inaccessible. (Newsletters often solve this by publishing members-only emails to a blog some number of months later.)
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[jgmac1106] I tipping too as it isn't just one more monthly bill, when my wallet would get empty I can decide to add more or not
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[jgmac1106] schmarty my cat pic for the day...probably my only cat pic: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2021/02/26/i-love-two-wrasslin-cats-easthaddams-little-coffee-and-ice
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] #easthaddam https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/file/9ca30d505d702804e33842d79ae6703a/thumb.jpg
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GWG [jgmac1106]: Nice to see you
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[cleverdevil] Woo! I've synced my health data into my site all the way back to when Apple started collecting it with HealthKit back in 2015 or so. The data doesn't really get interesting until they started doing the Apple Watch Activity Ring thing.
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[cleverdevil] Still, happy with progress 😄
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GWG [cleverdevil]: What other data do you want to get out of where?
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[cleverdevil] My aim is to start tracking my fitness a lot closer. I don't really use the workouts feature of iOS right now, and my plan is to start doing that.
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[cleverdevil] I have a new bike on the way, and want to do a ride at least 4-ish days a week.
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[cleverdevil] Once I start gathering that data, I should be able to record workouts as posts.
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GWG Fun
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GWG I should see how many APIs I can get data out of
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[jgmac1106] GWG nice to see you, feel like i [cleverdevil] everyday as our work streams have crossed paths on LinkedIn
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[jgmac1106] I am looking for sensor advice if I applied for some bat boxes grants
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GWG [jgmac1106]: Hope life returns you to us soon
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[cleverdevil] Heh. LinkedIn is a biiiiig marketing thing for us.
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[cleverdevil] I don’t really enjoy being on it all that much but if you have the right strategy you can leverage it for free marketing.
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[jgmac1106] funny I was just about to send you somethiung, yeah I decided not to syndicate through microblog bc i did not want to kruff up that place
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[jgmac1106] I think you could write a satire novel of someone taking over the world liking things on LinkedIn
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[jgmac1106] @gwg I am still running tech4teens camp. Came again to conclusion only way to keep WP going is to force them to use a theme but then give every kid a page builder on top
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[jgmac1106] with all your taxonomies you actually get a ton of design freedom with something like Elementor
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[jgmac1106] doing this cybersecurity training stuff kickig me butt too, trying to read up on the stuff you folks known for years
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GWG I do like freedom
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GWG [jgmac1106]: Stay safe
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[jgmac1106] so do they...without a page builder they switch themes in 10 seconds
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GWG Re cyber security
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[jgmac1106] its manufacturing and higher ed now, scary part will be when it is every federal contractor soon....thats when everybody won't be ready..but more chat than this channel
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[jgmac1106] teaching campers how to write value propositions and reflect that back in their designs: https://tech-4-teens.club/2021/02/12/creating-value-through-digital-storytelling/
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Loqi linkedin has -1 karma in this channel over the last year (0 in all channels)
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[tantek] massive adoption != success, or at least != good for the world. E.g. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/pranavdixit/koo-muslim-hate-india
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[Murray] [tantek]: I guess stylistic is a part of it. Content discovery is another part of it. I want to be able to quickly capture a birds-eye view of my activity (say at a month or week level) and then drill down to a daily or even individual activity-type view. I want it to be chronological and very clearly linked to the relevant date for that reason.
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[Murray] Most silos seem to do this with (classically) a chronological feed, but I'm not interesting in endless-scroll stuff. That only makes the current activity accessible; I want to be able to quickly find a trip or review or photo from any period. I also just feel like there must be _better_ ways to solve this problem from a UI perspective and was hoping some people had seen independent sites that were experimenting with different ways of displaying
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[Murray] date-based content. Aaron's is a good example, my own site is probably about halfway between that and a Facebook timeline at the moment, but I want to expand it considerably.
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[Murray] [KevinMarks] thanks, "logbook" is a useful term and has helped surface at least a few more intersting concepts on Dribbble already 🙂 might do some wider searches with that over the weekend
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[Murray] I guess most sites are looking at feeds as ways to boost engagement or community. I'm looking at them as an archival method, and that makes data retrieval a pretty important aspect of the UX. Right now, chronological feeds as many have them don't feel intuitive for that. I think Aaron's setup is much closer to a proper "archive feed", but I'm just trying to find as many different patterns as possible right now to see what others have come up with
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[Murray] at any rate, thanks for the various pointers :thumbsup: much to think on