#indieweb 2021-08-26

2021-08-26 UTC
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GWG I think my next website project will be marking up my resume finally with mf2, and updating it for the 2020s
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GWG And no Loqi, not using jargon yet
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GWG Now I just need a consumer
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[snarfed] clearly that means you need to quit your job and start a new job search
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[snarfed] good mf2 takes sacrifices
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GWG [snarfed]: I just hate doing it so much, making it a Microformats project makes it more palatable
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[tantek] I can relate to that GWG, I haven't updated mine in a long time, and making it into a "microformats publishing project" makes it more interesting
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GWG [tantek]: Exactly. And pairing it with a retheme of my entire site
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GWG Put my best foot forward
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Murray[d] it baffles me that there isn't a simple file format for CVs, one that you can just upload to jobs boards and they know they can extract the data and prepopulate forms
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Murray[d] back when I first started looking into the indieweb and microformats, I was working at a recruitment firm who were considering creating a jobs board; a microformats consumer was in active discussion at one point, but I imagine (even if that project had gone ahead) the lack of real-world CVs that could have been extracted that way would have sunk the suggestion 😄
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Murray[d] another potential issue would have been GDPR, though I do wonder if you could argue that microformats are an explicit permission for data gathering? Has anyone thought much on that/know of any use cases where that kind of logic has been applied?
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Loqi hey Murray[d]: we try to keep jargon (Microformats) out of this channel to make it more inviting to newcomers, can you move this to #indieweb-dev?
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Murray[d] (damn, thought I was avoiding that 😅 )
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[snarfed] I've worked with GDPR a fair amount, and I've never heard that the presence or absence of any specific technical plumbing mattered at all
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[snarfed] more like the opposite, it applies *regardless* of how you do things under the covers
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Murray[d] no, but public accessibility does matter. For example, we were legally allowed to manually scrape data from places like LinkedIn, even if it were normally considered to be personally identifiable data, because there was an explicit assumption that the individual had made that data public
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Murray[d] so making your data readily available for copying might matter? dunno
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[snarfed] sure. public is the key part there, not file format etc
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[snarfed] (also that sounds less GDPR specific?)
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Murray[d] that's true, I guess the fact that the CV in this instance is part of a public website would be sufficient enough 😄
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GWG I don't need to hide my life experience
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GWG It lacks references to the Indieweb though. Maybe I should ask [snarfed] for a letter of reference.
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GWG "Shows promise...but doesn't do enough unit tests."
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GWG Not serious, but we never got Indieweb endorsements off the ground
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Murray[d] what are indieweb endorsements?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indieweb endorsements" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "indieweb endorsements is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Murray[d] (was hopeful)
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sknebel what is endorsement?
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Loqi An endorsement is the approval/support of someone or something, typically used to endorse someone's skills in an area https://indieweb.org/endorsement
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GWG What are assertions?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "assertions" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "assertions is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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GWG What is assertion?
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Loqi An assertion is a relationship where one individual/organization makes a statement, asserts, or endorses that another’s statement is accurate in their opinion https://indieweb.org/assertion
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GWG assertions << assertion
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Loqi Sorry, I couldn't find a page named "assertions" or similar
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GWG Oops. I always forget my loqi markup
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capjamesg[d] Me too GWG 🙂
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GWG Loqi, help?
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capjamesg[d] I love the discussion from above. I do wonder about endorsements. I see on /endorsements someone used webmentions to collect them on projects.
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capjamesg[d] Interesting use of webmentions.
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capjamesg[d] What is Loqi?
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot/digital therapist present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/Loqi
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capjamesg[d] assertions is assertion
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capjamesg[d] Loqi?
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GWG Either way the idea you could endorse or assert something that could be used for badges or recommendations or such was very interesting m, but hasn't caught on
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Lohn <Murray[d]> "another potential issue would..." <- I talked about this with my wife, which is a LGPD expert (Brazilian GDPR). I her opinion, the CV contains personal and sometimes sensitive data. So, the data treatment authorization should be opt-in and we cannot use any kind of implicit permission, even with the use of microformats.
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[tantek] Murray[d] the formats / ecosystem start-up questions are worthy of discussion in #indieweb-dev
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GWG [snarfed]: I like the color in yours
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[snarfed] GWG my...resume? in the company logos?
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GWG Yes, makes it pop
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[snarfed] thanks!
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GWG I never thought of pictures in a resume/CV
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Murray[d] Lohn++ thanks for the info 🙂
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Loqi Lohn has 1 karma over the last year
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adi1 hi
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[tantek] in reviewing https://indieweb.org/person_mention and https://indieweb.org/person-tag I can't find any mention of discussions of using a domain (not full domain name) as a qualifier in a visible @-mention (to distinguish @-mentions for different domains, perhaps in the same post)
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[tantek] e.g. @github/tantek vs @twitter/t — does anyone remember when we last may have talked about using this kind of syntax (in actual displayed text in posts) ?
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[tantek] That is, in lieu of using a "full name" like /person_mention and /person-tag say to do.
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[tantek] Use-case: when the person is "only" on a particular silo
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[snarfed] would have guessed https://indieweb.org/nicknames-cache, but evidently not
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[snarfed] ah https://indieweb.org/person-tag#silo_only_person-tags
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[tantek] Use-case: in a /reply post in-reply-to a silo post where you really do mean to *only* reference that person's silo-handle because that's the only place they made that post.
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[tantek] Use-case: in a post POSSEd to a silo where you are citing (and want to @-name the author of) another post in that silo by someone who only made that post there
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[tantek] snarfed++ whoa I had forgotten about hashpersontags
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Loqi snarfed has 23 karma in this channel over the last year (48 in all channels)
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[tantek] that's definitely good related work. I thought somewhere we had noted results of discussions of the @-platform/name method
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[tantek] just as a plain "@-mention" in text can be auto-linked to someone's Twitter profile, I'm now consider the value of doing the opposite, that is, if you use a profile URL in text, as link it and replace the display text with a "more friendly" @-domain/text equivalent
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[tantek] e.g. https://github.com/tantek in a plain text note would be auto-linked and then display text converted to "@github/tantek"
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[tantek] (I realize that's skirting the #indieweb-dev edge, however I am specifically asking about the *experience* of writing a post and having it display like that)
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[tantek] would such auto @-naming the display text be desirable, meh, or undesirable?
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[tantek] real world example that inspired this "want" from a auto-display perspective: https://tantek.com/2021/238/t3/web-sign-in-existing-specs-users
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] https://github.com/stpeter gave me a heads-up about this. tl;dr: All the same reasons for not re-using WebID apply to Web Sign-in (and Sign-on is too similar), and thus we object to the proposed re-use. There’s already an existing set of related ...
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aaronpk i almost hate to say it, but I would actually prefer to see the username before the domain name
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[tantek] oooh
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[tantek] I like preferring the user over the platform
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aaronpk yes but...
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[tantek] sth like @tantek(github) ?
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aaronpk while @tantek@github does make sense, the double-@ is kind of annoying, and @tantek/github doesn't make sense
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[snarfed] posts like that (eg replying to a silo post) are single-silo-specific, so you could consider omitting the silo entirely
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aaronpk @tantek(github) is a reasonable compromise
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[snarfed] it's implied
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rockorager tantek@github?
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rockorager (Looks too much like malformed email)
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[snarfed] and only include the silo when it's an original post or syndicated more than one place
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aaronpk oh yeah good point [snarfed] if you're talking about the text to send to the silo then remove the silo scope
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[snarfed] eh I was even talking about on your site
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aaronpk oh interesting
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[tantek] except when you view it on my own site, the context of the silo is lost
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aaronpk well it's not lost entirely
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[snarfed] the reply context is pretty clear that it's github
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aaronpk since the post is a reply to something on github
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[tantek] lost enough
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[tantek] unless you make the background of the entire post look like the silo or something
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aaronpk no i agree with [snarfed], looking at that post on your site, i see that it's a reply to something on github, so it wouldn't be confusing to see just @username that link to github profiles
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[snarfed] the link is also a clear clue, hovering shows the destination domain
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[tantek] those are both compelling points
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aaronpk i would think of the domain/silo as a disambiguator
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aaronpk and if there's no ambiguousness then it's not neede
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aaronpk d
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[tantek] so maybe in a *reply* to a silo-post, it's ok to shorthand @-names of that silo to just plain @-names
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aaronpk which then makes sense that it's in parens
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aaronpk yeah i think the post being a reply is a good switch for that
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aaronpk now if you happened to also to mention a twitter profile in the github issue, then I would actually expect to see a clarification that it is not a github username both on your site *and* on the github copy
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[tantek] right. so we have two cases of upgrading a profile mention URL to @-mention text: if there is silo-context to the post (like it's a reply to a silo-only post) then links to those silo profiles should have a plain @-name mention. for other silo profile links, or lacking any silo-context, some form of @-name(with-platform) makes sense consistently
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GWG watches with interest
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[tantek] I believe I have also seen (as prior art) something like "IG @/name" or "@/name on IG" e.g. on Twitter, as a way of blocking the auto-linking of the @-name to that silo profile
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[tantek] the challenge is that @name(Instagram) would still link "name" to the local profile on Twitter (I'm pretty sure) in a tweet
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