#indieweb 2021-09-08
2021-09-08 UTC
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@mnot Seeing dark patterns in Twitter UI, along with signs that they're closing the ecosystem more (have you tried to get a developer account recently?). Time to look at alternatives, I think... (twitter.com/_/status/1435393350253776896)
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[snarfed] ok npdd [chrisaldrich] [tantek] aaronpk et al, done with the rough draft Satellite contest entry. feedback is welcome! https://snarfed.org/bluesky-satellite-contest-entry
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[KevinMarks] Rel-me is also mitigation for domain clawbacks - you could rel-me link pirate bay or scihub roving domains for example.
# [KevinMarks] Both of those are interesting alternative decentralized resolvers for URIs, come to that
# [KevinMarks] DNS is fungible in useful ways - you can change registrar and hosting with established ways to do so
# [KevinMarks] And as Brian pointed out ICANN is pragmatic dispute resolution
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@brianbehlendorf @rabble @harper @ensdomains ICANN is my go-to example for minimum viable governance. They have not been perfect, but if we need a system for balancing subjective interests between domain-holders and trademark-holders it's hard to think of an obviously better way. And yes, I have seen all the cryptos. (twitter.com/_/status/1434988937030762498)
# [KevinMarks] This is good from Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/blog/2021/06/21/standards-competition-governance
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astralbijection[ <[KevinMarks]> "that looks like a colophon" <- admittedly, that one is a colophon. this post https://astrid.tech/projects/quadfrost-leds/ is of a different project, though.
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capjamesg[d] Welcome [Justin_Walsh] 👋
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# [timothy_chambe] ↩️ As someone running a mastodon stance I have heard Palerma is that, and less resource intensive. I’m staying with Mastodon though as it seems to be evolving a bit faster.
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# cmnky I started reading the "indiweb project info" page, and this is just a general chat/support for admins who operate their own webservers ?
# cmnky ( did not intend to word it such that its value is minimized, just trying to get an idea of scope )
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petermolnar > and this is just a general chat/support for admins who operate their own webservers ? - it really is not :)
# capjamesg[d] cmnky Not necessarily. While a lot of community members know how to code / have built their websites with code, there are many people who use platforms like WordPress, Known, or another CMS who are part of the community.
# cmnky thats why I used the term "admin" and not "programmer"
# capjamesg[d] There are no qualifying factors for membership / participation other than wanting to have your own site 🙂
# capjamesg[d] So you can consider us a community of people who own websites, not operate servers.
# cmnky yes, poor choice of wording, but that was the implication
# [KevinMarks] it's a little more focused than that - do you have a personal site, and do you want to connect to other sites (we have protocols for that in various ways)
# capjamesg[d] +1 to KevinMarks' wording.
# cmnky okay, so the "indieweb" project has code / templates then ?
# petermolnar hush, Loqi
# petermolnar cmnky: we have protocols. There are implementations, guides, plugins which one can use, but we believe in plurality, so instead of a fixed way of implementing something, there are protocols.
# petermolnar what is webmention?
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Loqi Webmention is a web standard for mentions and conversations across the web, a powerful building block that is used for a growing federated network of comments, likes, reposts, and other rich interactions across the decentralized social web https://indieweb.org/Webmention
# petermolnar what is websub?
# Loqi WebSub (previously known as PubSubHubbub or PuSH, and briefly PubSub) is a notification-based protocol for web publishing and subscribing to streams and legacy feed files in real time https://indieweb.org/WebSub
# petermolnar what is micropub?
# Loqi Micropub is an open API standard (W3C Recommendation) for creating, editing, and deleting posts on websites, like on your own domain, supported by numerous third-party clients, CMSs, and social readers https://indieweb.org/Micropub
# petermolnar ^^^ there, please check these
# petermolnar what is indieauth?
# Loqi IndieAuth is a federated login protocol for Web sign-in, enabling users to use their own domain to sign in to other sites and services https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth
# cmnky sounds good, should get me oriented, thanks :D
# capjamesg[d] Also, this page should help:
# capjamesg[d] What is getting started?
# Loqi Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the indiewebcamp community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page and other indieweb essentials https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started
# capjamesg[d] You have already accomplished the first step: connecting with us 😄
# capjamesg[d] There are plenty of implementations for key protocols like Webmention that don't require much / any code or starting from scratch and having to learn everything about the spec.
# capjamesg[d] You'll find out more on the pages petermolnar kindly linked above! petermolnar++
# cmnky <-- longtime software engineer, understands :D
# Loqi Micro.blog is a website and social service started by Manton Reece, which natively supports IndieWeb building-blocks like microformats2, Webmention, and Micropub https://indieweb.org/Micro.blog
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# cmnky 'going out for dinner and a drink' example is nice
# cmnky good luck :D
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# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "cookie fatigue" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "cookie fatigue is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[aciccarello] same
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[tantek] Cookie fatigue is when a user becomes tired of dismissing seemingly useless [[cookie banner]]s; simple solution for IndieWeb sites to avoid adding to cookie fatigue, don’t set cookies on your personal site.
# [tantek] cookie fatigue << 2021-09-06 TechCrunch: [https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/after-years-of-inaction-against-adtech-uks-ico-calls-for-browser-level-controls-to-fix-cookie-fatigue/ After years of inaction against adtech, UK’s ICO calls for browser-level controls to fix ‘cookie fatigue’]
# Loqi ok, I added "2021-09-06 TechCrunch: [https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/after-years-of-inaction-against-adtech-uks-ico-calls-for-browser-level-controls-to-fix-cookie-fatigue/ After years of inaction against adtech, UK’s ICO calls for browser-level controls to fix ‘cookie fatigue’]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Cookie_fatigue https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=76842&oldid=76841
# [snarfed] (even if we set cookies, we're generally not subject to the banner/consent req'ts anyway. https://brid.gy/about#gdpr )
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# npd[m] could gateways/bridges be improved so that there isn't as much silent loss of functionality between systems?
# npd[m] maybe bots/bridges/user data should have provenance style fields, so we can know how someone is connected, rather than using bracketed [usernames] or extra [letters]
# npd[m] are emoji reactions reaching across the different systems, or not? is there some way for the user to know that in advance?
# [snarfed] sure! we already do that a bit, eg slack threads are sent as normal messages. https://indieweb.org/discuss#Differences_between_chat_services
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# capjamesg[d] Going off topic a bit… I am iterating on IndieWeb Search as I run queries for myself. The crawler is going on silently in the background. Would love feedback on results if you use it for anything 🙂
# capjamesg[d] I’m open to any feedback but I’m particularly interested in relevance. Not sure if the updated ranking algorithm is open sourced yet but it will be soon. I will start taking into account page links.
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# capjamesg[d] Hm…
# capjamesg[d] Can you check your meta descs? I did notice quite a few were boilerplate if I remember. If I’m wrong that’s totally my fault.
# capjamesg[d] For posts? Oh, that’s definitely not right.
# capjamesg[d] I’ll investigate.
# capjamesg[d] Hm. Super odd.
# capjamesg[d] That needs fixed. Will get on that!
# capjamesg[d] Anything else? Thanks for taking a look 🙏
# capjamesg[d] aaronpk++
# capjamesg[d] Yeah. I haven’t thought of a good fix yet for thin content.
# capjamesg[d] Or, rather, aggregate pages in this case.
# capjamesg[d] It’s hard to distinguish between say a list of links in posts and a wiki page for example on the basis of link quantity.
# capjamesg[d] I can actually haha. Already in the codebase.
# capjamesg[d] I probs didn’t help with “codebase” 😄
# capjamesg[d] Will do.
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@simonw I've released the first version of Datasette Desktop - a macOS application version of Datasette https://simonwillison.net/2021/Sep/8/datasette-desktop/ (twitter.com/_/status/1435683901389750272)
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# astralbijection[ despite having never lived in the 90s, i wanna add some 90s elements to my website for fun, like a hit counter or a guestbook. what else could i add?
# astralbijection[ good question, all i know is they had funky web design
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vilhalmer under construction gif http://textfiles.com/underconstruction/
# Loqi The 1990s was a decade that saw the invention and growth of the web, dominated by independent websites, as well as nascent silos like Geocities, with a particular aesthetic that would come to define the era like under construction graphics, dancing animals, site counters, and guest books https://indieweb.org/1990s
# astralbijection[ oh yeah, these definitely look 1990s
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# npd[m] [snarfed]: this is a great write up of the rel-me stuff, thanks for doing that!
# npd[m] my suggestions:
# npd[m] * I had been thinking that linking directly to the XFN description/spec/etc. would be useful: http://gmpg.org/xfn/ it provides some history/context that might be useful
# npd[m] * I think it's important to emphasize how symmetric links (rel-me or otherwise, in both directions) provides additional verification
# npd[m] anyone can put a link to any Twitter account or reddit profile page or whatever on their homepage, and anyone can point to any web site from their Twitter bio, but having the links in both directions gives much higher confidence
# npd[m] oh, I forgot what channel we're in, I followed up in the wrong place
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# npd[m] my mistake. I really like the practice of splitting the channels for discussion, but I just had both of them open and then hit reply over here