petermolnar"A physical book of IRC quotes we had professionally printed and bound many years ago is, ironically, likely to outlive whatever bit-rotting homepage we once built to make permanent the same quotes online." https://www.datagubbe.se/fleeting/
[snarfed]"However Camp 4 is also a walk-in camp. You need to haul everything on your back. That immediately filters out a lot of wannabes." https://kk.org/thetechnium/scenius-or-comm/ ...reminds me of the small bits of builder-first gatekeeping we have, eg requiring IndieAuth to edit the wiki
[Ed_Beck]↩️ I joined this slack last week. The auto-join channels are #indieweb #indieweb-meta and #indieweb-dev. Hopping in the middle of those conversations is intimidating.
[Ed_Beck]I’ve been looking at the directions to getting started sideways for a week. I think I’ve set up my h-card and formats but I’m still not exactly sure why.
[tantek]snarfed, requiring your own site and that you spend the time to set it up is less gatekeeping (which usually implies a particular gatekeeper actor), and more “proof of positive investment”
[snarfed]I do get the broad negative connotations of the term "gatekeeping." there's plenty of useful accepted gatekeeping in the world, eg drivers' licenses, tickets for events, etc...but if we decide that the term itself is negative and we want a different one, ok with me
[tantek]Very few communities if any are open to “anyone” having that degree of editing trust for something they can setup without asking anyone for permission
[tantek]Snarfed, I’d disagree again, the examples you gave, driver’s licenses, tickets for events, all require explicitly asking a gatekeeper for permission
GWG[Ed_Beck]: If you need help, step into our WordPress room. Also, you don't need to link to Facebook or Twitter at all, WordPress has an indieauth plugin. Just install and go
[snarfed][tantek] right! my point wasn't that those examples had no gatekeeper, my point was that they're positive (ie net good), not negative, just like ours
aaronpk[Ed_Beck]: aha that is helpful thanks! I will rearrange that page to move the "Your IndieAuth Server" on top! the rel-me stuff should be the fallback option if your website isn't already an indieauth server
aaronpkeventually i want to run a similar service to it that makes it more obvious you're signing up for a service that someone else is running, whereas right now i feel like that is kind of confusing
capjamesg[d]I probably need to document my projects on the wiki now I think about it. I can’t wait to add “Micropub” as the name of my server and client 🤦
[tantek]snarfed, yes language matters. It sounds like maybe an unintended conflation of “barrier” and “gatekeeping”, when the latter is a subset of the former
[tantek]GWG, preventing/minimizing harm in many ways is much more important to creating a safe & productive community than helping everyone do everything they can possibly think of or feel like
[tantek]also it is correct to *not* be welcoming to those whose intentions are harmful directly to others or the community, or indirectly such as entitled "do everything my way", or "hey you're doing everything wrong let me teach you" type folks.
GWGThe community stands for something. People may question what that is, but if you fundamentally disagree with it, why would you want to be in it except to agitate?
[tantek]"don't want to be part of our community" is not the point, they do, they just either don't care about others in the community, or only care that others follow them and their opinions
LoqiDeleteFacebook is a popular hashtag on Twitter (#DeleteFacebook) used by people to proclaim when they leave Facebook (to varying degrees), an encouragement for others to leave as well, and on a 2021 Time Magazine cover as Delete “Facebook” https://indieweb.org/DeleteFacebook