#indieweb 2022-01-05
2022-01-05 UTC
n8chz, Moosadee, DerEinzigWahreMa, darkkirb, ehmry, sarahd[d], jessealama, strugee, [snarfed], [fluffy]1, Nuve3, KartikPrabhu, petermolnar, Guest6, [tantek], tetov-irc, zerojames[d], hoenir, Murray[d], Jeremiah[d], shaunix[d], tracydurnell[d], MarkJR84[d], corenominal[d], wackycity[d], indieweb-irc-bri, grantcodes[d] and Myst[d] joined the channel
# 
Loqi [indienews] New post: "Overcomplicating post types (and committing to more simple ones)" https://jamesg.blog/2022/01/04/simple-taxonomies/
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# 
[jacky] So I've been reading https://gretchenmcculloch.com/book/ and I think this reminded me of the need of the kind of thing we had with "generations" (there's a concept of Pre, Post, Full and Semi Internet people - we'd probably want to lean more on the concepts of Full + Semi and acknowledge how to work with Pre and Post Internet)
# [jacky] From what I've read so far, the IndieWeb tends to appeal to Full Internet people but it's harder to get on the radar of Post Internet people (full Internet people are people either classed as having being online and using at the latest things like Facebook in 2014 as one marker and Post internet would be those who use Snapchat and/or iMessage as a primary mode of communication versus full out profiles)
nertzy, Saphire, push-f, fcser, boxframes_, angelo_, jbove_, peterrother, nsh, ermahgerddavid[m, reed, rhiaro, jryans, capjamesg, rektide, srushe, benji, toastal, sm2n, njd, Abhas[m], selectri-, tomleo[m], kandr3s[m], sebbu, krjst, joj, vroman, jamesg[m], nekr0z, webmind, samwilson, romangeek0, hackdash, npd[m], Zegnat, SamuelCaraliu[m], wagle, threewordchant, jgee, vilhalmer, benatkin, frittro, Charlotteracracs, rommudoh[m], voxpelli, blahblah441, gerben, willnorris, LaBcasse[m], zwro[m], Kaja, apophys, Tommi[m], sknebel, kloenk, mambang[m], jfkimmes[m], PeterMolnar[m], Dystopia, distopico, moose333, BinarySavior, klez, [KevinMarks], Ruxton, mikeputnam1, wrmilling_alt, Oclair, chenghiz_, jetpack, stevestreza, eco_, GWG, duncanbeevers, bneil, silberfuchs, qa6, alex11, lagash, yar, [tw2113_Slack_], [manton], raghavgururajan, saptaks, vj--, gillytech, Sadale, perro_, strugee, [snarfed], Nuve, Myst[d], n8chz, [jacky], jessealama, KartikPrabhu, rattroupe[d], IWSlackGateway1, Guest5622, [schmarty], darkkirb, lanodan, daiyi[d], [fluffy]1, petermolnar, [tantek], aaronpk, oodani, ehmry, gxt, [JampiDotNet]1, jamietanna[m], vikanezrimaya, hala-bala[m], jeremycherfas, doubleloop[m], raucao, bleb, milkii, zerok, rrix, timdream, Jon, grantcodes[d], corenominal[d], wackycity[d], indieweb-irc-bri, edburns[d], MarkJR84[d], shaunix[d], Ramon[d], tracydurnell[d], Jeremiah[d], hoenir, Murray[d], zerojames[d], tetov-irc, [JampiDotNet], Seirdy, jjuran, doosboox, feoh, rvalue, joshproehl___, ben_thatmust, tetov-irc2 and justIrresolute5 joined the channel
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# 
jessealama apropos: one thing I'm torn about is whether to mark up my site's articles *as* articles (whether that's as schema.org Article). I feel nerdsniped about this issue
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# zerojames[d] [manton] Thanks 🙂
# zerojames[d] I have struggled with having lots of structured post types when my main goal is just to keep track of and share information.
# zerojames[d] I could expand my notes field to do things like automatically add RSVP markup but for now notes are much more sustainable.
# zerojames[d] +1 re: personal goals. I'll take it to #dev though.
[aciccarello], samwilson, jackdaw[d], MatrixTravelerbo, hala-bala[m], Phil[m]12, rommudoh[m], mambang[m], jryans, DerEinzigWahreMa, diegov and Segnoir joined the channel
# alex11 people in [names] are in slack/mattermost, right?
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# alex11 i don't know what [d] is, though
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# 
[jeremycherfas] I think [d] is bridged from Discord.
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# 
[chrisaldrich] What is pbwiki?
# Loqi PBWorks is a wiki content-hosting silo that was originally called "PBWiki" https://indieweb.org/PBWiki
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# [chrisaldrich] PBWorks << 2021-12-30 [https://cogdogblog.com Alan Levine] [https://cogdogblog.com/2021/12/claiming-reclaiming-pbwiki/ Claiming and Reclaiming a 15 Year Old PB Wiki], some nostalgia and discussion related to [[why]] own your own site along with some details about how he archived his wiki to his own site
# Loqi ok, I added "2021-12-30 [https://cogdogblog.com Alan Levine] [https://cogdogblog.com/2021/12/claiming-reclaiming-pbwiki/ Claiming and Reclaiming a 15 Year Old PB Wiki], some nostalgia and discussion related to [[why]] own your own site along with some details about how he archived his wiki to his own site" to the "See Also" section of /PBWorks https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78925&oldid=32878
# [chrisaldrich] Or maybe have more examples like that ^^?
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# [chrisaldrich] What is sitesucker?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sitesucker" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "sitesucker is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# [chrisaldrich] tantek, It would help, but there's the bigger issue of collecting that data in a world where many (most?) don't know they want or need to escape?
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# [chrisaldrich] Alan Levine's article also brings up the pattern, which we've discussed before but which doesn't have a good name, of silos emailing users that they're going to lose their data if they don't log in and use the service on an ongoing basis.
# [chrisaldrich] In his case it's a 12 month cycle.
# [chrisaldrich] I went there to compare export ideas from his version to the ones that might be there.
# [chrisaldrich] I'd suspect most IndieWeb users would visit those sorts of silo pages for ideas about how to export and move away from them. Also potentially with ways/means of self-hosting alternatives and potential projects related to that.
# [chrisaldrich] If I'm leaving PBWiki, where could I go? How could I have a similar site with similar functionality? What options are there? What other wiki or wiki-like projects exist?
# [chrisaldrich] In Alan's case it looks like he originally liked the fact that PBWiki was editable by a group, but not needing that functionality now he's exported it to a flat HTML page on his site.
# zerojames[d] alex11 [d] is Discord, [m] is Matrix, [username_here] is Slack, and no [] at all is IRC.
# zerojames[d] It's a bit confusing haha 🙂
# alex11 i thought mattermost was [] too though
# [chrisaldrich] I haven't heard anyone bridging mattermost to the chat here before.
# [chrisaldrich] What is discuss?
# Loqi Join the #indieweb discussion via the web, Slack, IRC, Discord, or Matrix clients now with additional channels for dev, wordpress, and meta specific chat! https://indieweb.org/discuss
# [chrisaldrich] What other silo services send annual pings to users threatening potential data loss? I know I get reminders from yahoo and aol occasionally about loss of data or accounts. I'll have to check, but there's at least one other silo that I've archived to my site that does this from time to time.
# [chrisaldrich] This practice also seems like a dark pattern meant to create FOMO and get you to re-engage with their service (potentially to improve their numbers for surveillance capitalism purposes.)
# alex11 has yahoo even been relevant since like 2008
# [chrisaldrich] alex11, it's relevant to people who have their data stored there and may want to keep it certainly. Equating number of eyeballs or users to "relevance" is a toxic framing that primarily applies to silos. I prefer the idea of relevance as discussed in the Velveteen Rabbit or tending one's rose in The Little Prince.
# [chrisaldrich] What is digital humanism?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "digital humanism" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "digital humanism is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# 
Murray[d] I'm still angry with Yahoo for deleting my first email address because I didn't log in frequently enough. I lost a bunch of old emails from a friend who moved to another country. When the account went down, I lost contact completely, and never managed to get back in touch (this was several years before even MySpace) 😦
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# alex11 i completely agree with both of you btw i was just making a general statement
# alex11 yahoo is a garbage company
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# zerojames[d] I am thinking about making an automated blog roll. Does that seem too impersonal?
# zerojames[d] I have a planet on my site and can easily generate a blog roll along side it.
# zerojames[d] https://planet.jamesg.blog/
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# [chrisaldrich] How does one automate a blogroll? I've been doing mine manually for the longest time. It would be useful if WordPress had created a browser bookmarklet that would pull in all the data from someone's personal site to put it into their old Link Manager that many used to create a blogroll. It might be more interesting now to do /follow posts that are automatically aggregated into a blogroll.
# [chrisaldrich] What is a list?
# Loqi list is a feature on some silos such as Twitter for collecting a set of people you want to follow for a specific reason such as a topic or area of expertise https://indieweb.org/list
# [chrisaldrich] wishes there was a more user friendly tool for syncing my old school blogroll with my social reader.
# [chrisaldrich] zerojames[d], I'd love to see a blogroll of who you're following in the coffee space. That would be a cool discovery feature I would "drink" up.
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