#indieweb 2022-06-23
2022-06-23 UTC
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# 
petermolnar thought experiment: should we write excerpts that are good enough for dall-e to generate relevant to the topic images?
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# 
sknebel hm.. I've seen for generic images (https://xeiaso.net/blog/site-update-hero-images), but post-content specific is ... interesting. would with technical topics etc be hard
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# petermolnar sknebel: "do I need illustration?" is part of the question to be honest
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# petermolnar sknebel: the software used in the article you linked is impressive and slightly terrifying
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AramZ-S[m] @sknebel are you a payign user for MidJourney?
# AramZ-S[m] I like your process and I can see how it could be made to work for SSG process
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[tantek] This feels like there is an IndieWeb angle/opportunity here, the phenomenon of intermediaries taking a loss on transactions between individuals or individuals & small businesses as a method for gaining adoption and "training" individuals to use / depend on intermediaries: https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/06/uber-ride-share-prices-high-inflation/661250/
# AramZ-S[m] I feel that most of these intermediaries establish both protocol and UI standards that then get adopted pretty easily by the prexisting systems they intend to replace because the incumbent companies have stable budgets and are capable of internal development. There is no replacing the 'low' cost created by VC subsidy though, because it was always artificial. These systems create convienance but through explotation of the underlying
# AramZ-S[m] systems in order to attempt monopolies at scale. Each system has its own unique issues which is why there is even an interest in startups in that field to begin with.
# AramZ-S[m] But at the end of the day these startups self sabatoge by building money losing operations because it makes them more expensive to aquire then for some other entity to in-house development, especially as the number of available engineers continues to rise.
# AramZ-S[m] It would be interesting to take each use case and think what is the open and connectable version of this, a common protocol for indie local taxis services for example. But I don't think there's enough similarities to have say an indie run-a-marketplace-for-services setup b/c the shape and requirements of something like Taxis and Grocery Delivery are different enough that the very fact that Uber is trying to merge them is causing them
# AramZ-S[m] significant problems and opening up competition. Not all markets are the same and Uber's attempt to try and capture any market available sort of shows that there really isn't a good single-fit solution
# [tantek] my fave example of this kind of lifestyle-convenience intermediary was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozmo.com which frankly, having been in SF and used it, it was kind of like magic
# AramZ-S[m] Yeah, and it's basically back, just split over Uber and a few others
# AramZ-S[m] Yup, even markets are different! I've seen this concept explored before, the consumer subsidy idea as an explanation of the past and present and how things are changing... it often misses the other half of the story. While these VC-funded battles are to huge disadvantage to users... they also hollow out their communities. It's the same thing with Facebook Ads. It isn't just that they are trying to artificially create monopolies but that
# AramZ-S[m] the switch is flipped on the flow of capital from internal circulation in these communities to external and into VC coffers, it empties out the communities in ways that make it much harder for them to survive or retain their character. If there's an interesting opportunity in finding ways to enable locals to run things themselves it is in flipping that flow back. But I think a lot of companies put a lot of hidden person-hours into making
# AramZ-S[m] that switch that have nothing to do with automation or technology that is hard to compete with. Facebook gives its employees $300 and instructions to go out to local bizs and teach them how to use Facebook Ads. The biggest problem we face in fixing the market problems created by FB is that it isn't just a technology company, but also perpetually turning every employee into a sales person.
# AramZ-S[m] And if we wanted to present an alternative (which I agree, is interesting as an idea) we can't just approach it as tech. Very few local buisnesses are left in a state to embrace tech. It also must become a sales effort for indie/open soruce alternatives. Which is never easy.
# AramZ-S[m] It just especially sucks because the nature of something like Uber Everything is (to your point about different urban regions) that it doesn't just extract cash out of the regions in which it runs, in order to create efficincies it attempts to deform them to make them all the same thing.
# AramZ-S[m] It turns out it is far easier to incept ideas about structure and communities towards a monoculture into politics and through sales then it is to write software that serves more than one different type of community.
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[aciccarello] I had a friend come to me wanting to make websites with online ordering for restaurants just before the pandemic. IIRC wix had some steep fees.
# [tantek] I still believe the web and web technologies have the potential to empower individuals and businesses to represent themselves directly to each other, and I think a big part of what's missing are not underlying technologies (maybe a few topic-specific microformats for specific goods & services), but rather improving both the "authoring experience" and the user interaction experience
# [tantek] similarly as a local, I'd like to share (perhaps more) information with local businesses in a "protected way" (i.e. not public to the planet / search engines) as a way to provide feedback, provide my interests / needs and offer local businesses the opportunity to contact me directly with what they can help with
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# [aciccarello] Are you talking about simpler WYSIWYG website editors for restaurants a la Squarespace or something else?
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# [Scott_Jack] Buenas, amigos
# [Scott_Jack] [tantek] [aciccarello] This is where I think Square Online really shines. Their money comes from card processing so they're interested in making it easy for businesses to use their web authoring tool
# [Scott_Jack] Honestly, I think it's easy enough for most business owners - but I think most fail to prioritize their site and would rather offload the work on someone else
# [Scott_Jack] and then they wonder why we want paid adequately for piecing together their entire online ordering system hahaha
# [Scott_Jack] I agree that Wix seemed expensive. But it offers greater flexibility than Square Online. I haven't looked at Squarespace in quite a while but I feel like they got greedy
# [Scott_Jack] ehhhh I know I'm tech literate but it's pretty darn easy already
# [Scott_Jack] And for many businesses, it's really not the owner's best use of time to be putting their own site together
# [aciccarello] I think a lot of people wouldn't even know where to start. A lot of website builders are either blank slate or too restrictive. The closest thing I've seen to "signing up for a social media account" in terms of ease would probably be the Google Maps generated websites since those pull in already entered data. But those have a host of other problems.
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# [aciccarello] Thats true
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[tonz] it’s a bit shocking to me that my first instinctive reaction to “easiest way to make a small site” is “write it in notepad”. That answer is almost 30 yrs old, that was how I made my first webpage. And that handwriting html is still my answer. Mind you I wouldn’t want to hand write my blog in html, but ‘small site’ as in a few simple pages, yes I’d still do that by hand I think.
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# [tonz] blogged it, to see what reactions it gets on Mastodon and Twitter https://www.zylstra.org/blog/2022/06/after-3-decades-notepad-cant-still-be-the-answer-can-it/
# AramZ-S[m] [tantek][aciccarello] I agree Square Online is easily creating the most impressive experiances in this space and have really figured out the 'order delivery' use case in a very effective way. I was super impressed the first time I saw it at https://www.blp.nyc/s/shop?page=1&limit=60&sort_by=shop_all_order&sort_order=asc - it's smooth, easy, and can be customized in a way effective to the shop. When I order delivery from there I go to
# AramZ-S[m] their site instead of an aggregator like Uber or GrubHub.
# AramZ-S[m] I really like Beaker
# AramZ-S[m] I think that is the right way directionally, especially for the Dweb
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