#indieweb 2023-01-17

2023-01-17 UTC
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[tantek] aaronpk, please upload that screenshot, that's so worth documenting on /mute — it's a great real world example!
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[KevinMarks] Scalzi has been indieweb for 15 years this year https://whatever.scalzi.com/2023/01/13/whatever-twenty-five-part-one-introduction-scene-setting/
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[timothy_chambe] The Post announces that it will support #ActivityPub and be Mastodon interoperable in 2023: https://twitter.com/noelbaron/status/1605063762922409984
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@noelbaron If you’re trying to decide between Post and Mastodon, it’s all good. Post will formally support ActivityPub protocol mid-2023. Visit both! (twitter.com/_/status/1605063762922409984)
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[KevinMarks] Feels like Anil is describing bridgy's consent model https://anildash.com/2023/01/16/a-fediverse-search/
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[KevinMarks] [tantek] another service for omitting reposts is https://github.com/cookiemumbles/justmytoots.com
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[KevinMarks] Requires link based opt in
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[snarfed] [KevinMarks] hah, yes! not deliberately though, mainly just due to the way the APIs worked, at least initially
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[snarfed] at least Facebook's
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[snarfed] the cultures are definitely different though. here we maybe come from more of an open web culture, we might ideally love to see webmentions sent for everything on the public web, and in public on silos, eg all public tweets
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[snarfed] whereas fediverse culture obviously isn't that
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[TMichelleMoore] [KevinMarks] [snarfed] Can you confirm my understanding of the issue? Fediverse people don’t want search? The reason I am questioning my understanding is that you can search almost every post/toot that is public even without logging in. Just trying to understand what the real issue is.
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[KevinMarks] There's a substantial contingent of fediverse users who have seen how search has been used on twitter to target people and want to avoid that happening on mastodon, and are being clear that any search indexing should be opt-in. Anil's and Janl's posts talk about this, and I have seen that reaction from a lot of mastodon instance admins.
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[KevinMarks] They recall the path that twitter took, (which I have written about before https://www.kevinmarks.com/twitterhatespeech.html ) and want to avoid the affordances that drives that
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Loqi [preview] [Kevin Marks] How did Twitter become the hate speech wing of the free speech party?
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[snarfed] Also [TMichelleMoore] Mastodon search doesn't search all posts, it only searches users and hashtags on the local instance. https://docs.joinmastodon.org/user/network/#search
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[TMichelleMoore] [KevinMarks] and [snarfed] Thank you! I got it. I will read Kevin’s article also.
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[tantek] Has anyone used or found anything with alternativeto.net ?
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starrwulfe[m] Sure-- I use Jitsi -- found on there as an alternative to Zoom.
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Loqi Sure has -1 karma over the last year
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starrwulfe[m] I also found Owncast there as an alternative to Twitch as I was looking with some gamer friends as an alternative to self host something for ourselves
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starrwulfe[m] Loqi: Sure++
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starrwulfe[m] Keep forgetting not to emdash here. 🤦🏾‍♂️
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[tantek] Sure++ emdash++
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Loqi Sure has 0 karma over the last year
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Loqi emdash has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] good to know starrwulfe[m], and glad to hear it. Maybe worth documenting somewhere on our wiki as another place to look for alternatives
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starrwulfe[m] I'll put something together if needed. It's a very well trafficked and referenced site especially for those of us using Linux that are always needing something equivalent to certain desktop software
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starrwulfe[m] Or when looking for FOSS alternatives to closed source software
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[aciccarello] I'll occasionally look at alternativeto.net but if I recall that was more useful when looking for software to download.
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angelo is /unlisted a solution to search consent?
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Loqi angelo: [snarfed] left you a message 1 week, 4 days ago: saw you had trouble with Bridgy Fed yesterday, sorry! it was a bug, I've fixed it and pushed your post through, hope you don't mind. https://indieweb.social/@ragt.ag@ragt.ag/109644123476808177
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[snarfed] kind of, but I expect many people on the fediverse will want them decoupled, ie they'll want to be able to post public (listed) posts and still not have them search indexed
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capjamesg What is unlisted?
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Loqi unlisted are publicly visible posts that are not included in a homepage or feed(s), and are typically excluded from site search features and broader web search services https://indieweb.org/unlisted
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[tantek] what is unindexed
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "unindexed" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "unindexed is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] I thought we had a prior discussion about separating not-indexed-for-search and not-on-homepage-or-feeds
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[snarfed] somewhere in https://indieweb.org/unlisted#Brainstorming ?
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[tantek] hmm, apparently not. unstreamed is different from unindexed
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[tantek] interesting, in 2020 I did use /unindexed as a wiki-linked term in chat despite the page not existing
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[KevinMarks] So unindexed was unlisted?
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[tantek] more like unwikified
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[0x3b0b] There also might be cases where people would like something they posted as unlisted to be searchable. And as a lot of people have emphatically (in some cases vehemently) pointed out, on top of the many problems there would be with making it opt-out, making it opt-in based on something that is already in place would run the risk of treating existing users as opted in who did not expect what they opted into to mean that.
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[snarfed] this is entertaining: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/resolving-the-note-vs-article-distinction/258
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[0x3b0b] I think Anil's idea has some merit - on a technical level it seems like you could get a long way toward the goal just by driving it off a bot that automatically follows its followers and unfollows anyone who unfollows it. Except I feel like there are probably people who would expect "followers only" posts not to be indexed.
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