#indieweb 2024-03-11

2024-03-11 UTC
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[aciccarello] I've never seen this before. A site's terms and conditions makes restrictions on who can link to the site. That doesn't seem enforceable.... https://www.artbycaroljean.com/terms-conditions/
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[aciccarello] I was about to add a post linking to the site but I think I'd rather not if that's the tone they set.
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[lcs] That's the... strangest thing I've read all week.
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[lcs] Seems like a waste of words to write something so entirely unenforcable and, frankly, entirely at odds with the spirit of the medium you're using
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[contact898] huh
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[contact898] reminds me of https://bikobatanari.art/posts/2023/east-west-website-culture
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capjamesg The right to link freely is a cornerstone of the web. The web is the web because of links.
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capjamesg I think it is okay to have preferences (i.e. my site isn't ready / might be down, please don't quote it in your blog posts right now), but such conventions are based on trust.
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[contact898] one thing that i've wondered a lot about is dead links
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[contact898] i used a really good blog post as a source for my writing for an upcoming article, but the blog was then taken down. i don't know if it's classic link rot or if the author doesn't stand by their words anymore and i'm afraid that quoting them (using an internet archive link) would not make them happy. on the other hand, it's a great post, it's not like i'm going to link it to dunk on it by digging someone's past
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[lcs] I think that's a great consideration. Generally, I wouldn't link to an off-site archived version of a post on a personal site, even if it's a good one.
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[lcs] I would think they've probably deleted it for a reason.
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[Ana_R] Yeah, In those situations I personally wouldn't link it. If it was really important to the story I was sharing, I think I would say something like "I once read this take x" and go from there. But not mentioning author/origin.
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[Ana_R] I feel for the art folks 😕 the linking thing can't technically be enforced but i'm sure there was a painful experience behind that decision and attempt to control.
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[Ana_R] I would like to share my art experiments on my blog but I don't understand copyright enough to protect myself.
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[contact898] for a single post same, but the entire blog went down which is why i had more of an ethical dilemma. thanks for your opinions, i'll remove it! 🙂
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[contact898] [Ana_R] i'd say creative commons licenses are pretty cool because they're understandable by humans and pretty modular (you can allow what you want). https://chooser-beta.creativecommons.org/ they also have a « chooser » that helps you figure out what you want from your license, i love that tool.
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[contact898] (I personally am a big CC-BY person, meaning everyone can use as long as they say the original content is by me. but if you don't care about being reused on wikipedia (i do, for my photos), then you might be interested in adding the non-commercial clause too, which says anyone can use as long as they say the original content is by you, _and_ they don't make money with it.)
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[Ana_R] Thank you [contact898]! I will have a look!
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[contact898] i want to post a nice guide to creative commons one of these days, preferably that adds something to what they already put on their website. not sure how i'll do that, but i'll try 😄
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capjamesg [Ana_R] Creative Commons has an interactive wizard you can use to decide on a license.
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capjamesg https://chooser-beta.creativecommons.org/
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capjamesg I have used that in the past to decide on a license for a project.
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lazcorp I use a CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 license on the *text* of my blogposts (with the additional note that "Images, videos, or other media used in this blog post, whether as creative works discussed by the text or for illustrative purposes, are not covered by this license and may be subject to different licenses or restrictions - please contact the copyright holder.")
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lazcorp For my artwork, that's published on my site with a "© 2024 Paul Watson. All Rights Reserved" statement, because I do sell it in various formats
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capjamesg I believe if you don’t specify a license it defaults to all rights reserved too, right?
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capjamesg (I say this because I haven’t specified a license because I want all my words to be all rights reserved.)
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lazcorp @capjamesG - that's correct, as far as I'm aware
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capjamesg Excellent.
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capjamesg I have used CC licenses for code and datasets.
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lazcorp A license to use something only exists if the copyright holder explicitly displays one
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lazcorp And for the record re. the T&C link shared earlier, it looks like 99% of it is unnecessary legal stipulations which exist anyway
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lazcorp I think there was a case a decade or two back about some site claiming they could dictate who could link to their site - I can't remember the outcome
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lazcorp I'm guessing (hoping) it was thrown out of court as laughable
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[Ana_R] lazcorp++ thank you! that is good to know!
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[Ana_R] also thanks Alex++ and capjamesg++ for the chooser link! really helpful!
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Loqi lazcorp has 9 karma over the last year
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capjamesg bows
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[qubyte] Little late to the discussion, but also a big CC licence fan. They convey intent very well. If I ever get around to splitting my static site generator and the content into different repos I’ll likely use one for the content.
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[jacky] same here re: licensing content (as much as I hate licensing as a concept)
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[jacky] I already have my representation layer separated and licensed that liberally
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[jacky] (theming and assets)
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[Joe_Crawford] what is Sacramento?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Sacramento" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Sacramento is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[Joe_Crawford] Sacramento is a city in California that will host an IndieWebCamp in 2024.
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Loqi ok
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capjamesg Sacramento++
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Loqi Sacramento has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] Oh wow commitment!
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[Joe_Crawford] ↩️ “Act as if” they say.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Indie webbing" https://adactio.com/journal/20968 (from https://aaronparecki.com/2024/03/11/10/)
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[daveletorey] Thanks to everyone at #indieWebCampBrighton both in person and online I felt welcomed and had the best
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lazcorp daveletorey - it was great to meet you!
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[daveletorey] ↩️ Time
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[Scout] ↩️ me too! what a great weekend and community. and good meeting you :)
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lazcorp you too, Scout!
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lazcorp For all those who enjoyed #indieWebCampBrighton, the Homebrew Website Club Europe/London zoom chat happens most Wednesdays. More info
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lazcorp at https://events.indieweb.org/2024/03/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-GV5lp1Q1B6nz
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[qubyte] ❤
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[chrisaldrich] An interesting data point about identity on Mastodon and related platforms: https://mastodon.social/@J12t@social.coop/112078481644721993
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Loqi [preview] [Johannes Ernst] I'm observing the community has some work to do to promote the consistent use of Fediverse user handles. I'm going through the registrations for #FediForum, and note that attendees use all sorts of variations on their handles, including @user@server...
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[snarfed] oof, painful
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[tantek] speaking of identity, direct link to that post rather than in a "viewer" on masto .social: https://social.coop/@J12t/112078480397199442
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Loqi [preview] [Johannes Ernst] I'm observing the community has some work to do to promote the consistent use of Fediverse user handles. I'm going through the registrations for #FediForum, and note that attendees use all sorts of variations on their handles, including @user@server...
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[aciccarello] So many pain points the fedi community needs to figure out
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[tantek] [snarfed] maybe? I think it's a data point, and one we can use to point out the mistaken assumptions of folks that designed/propagated new approaches to identity "it seems safe to say that the world is confused about fediverse handles."
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[tantek] also IMO points to an opportunity to specify a set of possible approaches and a canonical way of handling them (i.e. a specification) which I may say more about in #indieweb-dev
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[snarfed] ...sure? sounds like we're agreeing
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[tantek] and no the answer has nothing to do with finger plumbing
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[snarfed] oh I see. I wasn't necessarily agreeing in detail with [j12t]'s proposed solution, just observing that the problem itself is painful and unfortunate
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[tantek] [snarfed] I didn't see any proposed solution in that post nor replies thereto
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[snarfed] "work to do to promote the consistent use of Fediverse user handles" sounds like (lightly) arguing for education, vs revisiting the identity/handle design itself
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[snarfed] regardless, this is much deeper than I initially thought about the post 😆
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gRegor Maybe we should get everyone on their own instance and remove the username part. 😏
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[snarfed] gRegor++
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Loqi gRegor has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (106 in all channels)
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[tantek] right, that assumes there *is* a "consistent use of Fediverse user handles", which I would argue, there is not, and it's a very narrowminded viewpoint, that is, why fedi only? The right answer is the broader "consistent use of user handles" across the web
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[tantek] fedi-only tunnelvision does not serve users
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capjamesg [Joe_Crawford] Did you do anything with your personal website this weekend?
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[Joe_Crawford] Short answer: yes. Long answer: a guestbook https://artlung.com/guestbook/ updated my contact page with a form http://artlung.com/contact/ I gave my blogroll its own page (with opml export) and I downloaded an archive of all my facebook posts because I was frustrated not to have photos of some of my cosplay in my site. I am rather torn at how I'll end up doing the Facebook import bit. It may be too heavy, and the contents might be wrong
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[Joe_Crawford] for the blog as such. Oh and the cosplay page: https://artlung.com/cosplay/
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[Joe_Crawford] Bloroll is at https://artlung.com/blogroll/
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vete so... what is indieweb?
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[Joe_Crawford] what is indieweb?
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Loqi The IndieWeb is a community of independent & personal websites connected by simple standards, based on the principles of: owning your domain & using it as your primary identity, publishing on your own site (optionally syndicating elsewhere), and owning your data https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
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vete oh sweet
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vete i knew it had something to do with hosting, but didn't know it was like this
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vete awesome.
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gRegor Welcome, vete. o/ Do you have a personal site?
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[snarfed] interesting social app UX etiquette question: Bridgy Fed currently shows unfollows in its notifications, but I guess it probably shouldn't...?
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[snarfed] example: https://fed.brid.gy/web/snarfed.org/notifications
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[tantek] I think it's fine
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[tantek] [snarfed] it's a feature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_therapy
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[tantek] keep it
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[snarfed] lol wow
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[tantek] it's also about the story you tell yourself. e.g. "maybe they (the unfollower) is now directly following my website and skipping the fedi-middleman!" 🙂
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gRegor haha it's good to dream
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[tantek] gRegor or: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronoia_(psychology)
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gRegor I'm neutral on it. I know there were services that told you how many/who unfollowed, so maybe some people like it.
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[tantek] [snarfed] assuming you show the precise follower count anyway, people may notice when it goes down, and that might make them MORE anxious like awwww WHO unfollowed me?!? The uncertainty can *add* to the anxiety whereas once it's demystified, much of the impact is gone, oh it's just that one specific person or account that I've never heard of, whatever, cool.
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