#indieweb 2024-03-26

2024-03-26 UTC
rvalue, ttybitnik, [tantek], i0ta, bruh, Maxpm, [dominik], gRegorLove_, gRegorLove__, gRegor, nertzy_, mahboubine, gruetzhaxe, [David_Peach], [contact898], a51 and FakeNukes joined the channel
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FakeNukes what is purpose of indieweb if im banned even in TOR chats
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "purpose of indieweb if im banned even in TOR chats" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "purpose of indieweb if im banned even in TOR chats is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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FakeNukes what Loqi replies even without me hitting enter thats some scary AI
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[Murray] https://mastodon.social/@Edent/112161196933183367
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[tantek] I mean start with universal basic domains
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[tantek] I believe there may be countries that provide some form of this for their citizens
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[tantek] Though I'm unsure if it they allow pseudonymity or multiple sites, or if such government provided domains require use of "real names"
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[tantek] which would be one of the concerns to relate to edent's "what if"
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FakeNukes how will indieweb we affected by Canadas social credit score for example? will it come to US in time?
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redblobgames Instead of real names we could use social security numbers in the US ;)
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[tantek] yep, plenty of default dystopia scenarios there
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FakeNukes I think US uses reverse system like snowden leaked- fake privacy while every android smartphone having backdoor or being able to control with Bluetooth stingray
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[Murray] real names would surely be a terrible approach to domain handouts, unless everyone had the first-name-bunch-of-numbers treatment 😅
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FakeNukes by the way ICANN has mandatory real info provided system but how some websites manage to hide their registered identities, I mena they mask it somehow
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[Joe_Crawford] The idea of every postal address in the US having an associated email address always appealed to me in a naive way. In practice, the way email is, so anonymous, so unfiltered and unregulated, it'd be a vector for all kinds of horrifying shenanigans.
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FakeNukes all emails except deep web ones now require phone verification, yes protonmail included
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[tantek] not on your own domain. and web hosting does not require phone number verification.
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FakeNukes well having own email server is like build your system from scratch, like 0.2 percent of population
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[tantek] no, most web hosts also provide email services at your domain
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[tantek] and I think 0.2% is optimistic for build your own email server 😂
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[tantek] I would put it closer to 0.0001%
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[KevinMarks] Didn't Estonia do a citizenship domain?
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[tantek] no evidence of that on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ee
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FakeNukes lol wut forget estonia now trump in charge, deutsche bank manager that had info on trump died and same bank was caught laundering 120 billions from baltics
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FakeNukes like someone said im trump I changed my mind
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FakeNukes +baltics are extremely racists who would even want to have business with them
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[tantek] FakeNukes, that's starting to sound offtopic for #indieweb, maybe more appropriate for #indieweb-chat?
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FakeNukes well politis are related to web things too but ok +its so hard to find libera chat wider groups list than main chats
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FakeNukes *politics
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aaronpk this is not a general "web things" chat. see channel topic for details
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FakeNukes sorry i didnt see any rules I broke
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FakeNukes or a way to browse indie web
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FakeNukes hard to grasp the concept, how it is different from TOR
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[tantek] what is IndieWeb ring?
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Loqi 🕸💍 Indiewebring is part of the great rebirth of of webrings powered by #IndieWeb technology that made 2018 the year of the webring and not the year of the microsub reader https://indieweb.org/indieweb-ring
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[capjamesg] This channel is for talking about making websites.
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gRegor what is indieweb?
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Loqi The IndieWeb is a community of independent & personal websites connected by simple standards, based on the principles of: owning your domain & using it as your primary identity, publishing on your own site (optionally syndicating elsewhere), and owning your data https://indieweb.org/indieweb
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FakeNukes its very complex for casual users, any way for "platforming" it?
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FakeNukes I still need to register domain with ICANN or indieweb provides this service?
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[tantek] what is DNS?
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Loqi DNS is an abbreviation for Domain Name Server (or Domain Name System) and often used to refer to the configuring thereof on a domain name registrar or on a web host https://indieweb.org/DNS
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[tantek] hmm that's more technical than I intended to reference
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[tantek] what is a personal domain?
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Loqi A personal domain is a domain name that you personally own, control, and use to represent yourself on the internet https://indieweb.org/personal-domain
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[tantek] ^ more answers in there
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gRegor what is getting started
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Loqi 🎉 Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the IndieWeb community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page and other IndieWeb essentials https://indieweb.org/getting_started
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[tantek] you can also try out https://micro.blog/
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[tantek] capjamesg, how's the restarted HWC Edinburgh going?
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btrem Multi-message question: on my site, I post my ferments (sauerkraut, pickles, etc.), marked up as h-recipe. When I open them, I rate them in an addendum to the post (more or less like a comment, and in fact I mark them as a review comment). The idea is to use the site as a kitchen notebook.
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btrem I can note what I did in a particular jar (1 tsp. mustard seed vs. 2 tsp., this jar has ginger, that one doesn't, etc.), then compare the results.
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btrem It works ok, but I find that I repeat myself a lot. For example, if I make a jar of pickles one week, and make another jar a week later, most of the recipe is the same. I could make a single recipe for each type (a pickle post, a sauerkraut post, etc.). But then I lose the variation which can affect the result.
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btrem Any thoughts on what I should or could be doing? I don't see any obvious solution. I either go DRY and lose the variation, or I repeat myself.
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[tantek] great questions!
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[tantek] in physical cookbooks, I have seen recipes for components (e.g. a recipe for a sauce) referenced from recipes for dishes
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btrem Yes, but these aren't really components. They are variations.
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btrem I do have a cookbook that has variations as separate entries. Like "Pasta with Tomato Sauce" as a main recipe, and following it, "Pasta With Olives and Tomato Sauce," where the second one says "follow the first recipe, but add olives."
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gRegor Kind of sounds like an /edit, something that keeps track of individual lines that changed over time
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btrem Trouble is, the vast majority are slightly different.
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[qubyte] I would tend toward repetition personally, but I see your point. It’s like you want a way to express and mark up a sort of diff.
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btrem Yes.
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btrem Probably I'll have to stick with repetition. In fairness, it's likely what I'd do if it /were/ a physical kitchen notebook.
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btrem It just kills me every time I create a new post, and the first thing I do is copy and paste from a previous one.
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gRegor You could also reply to the original recipe with notes of what you changed before updating the original recipe. That way there's a datetime attached "Switched from 1 tsp to 2 tsp"
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gRegor Still a bit of repetition, have to update the original post, but your replies note what you changed and when
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[aciccarello] btrem, I have a few recipes on my site. Usually I only post one recipe and note some variations in the description
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btrem gRegor: I have thought of that. Don't know if it's feasible, but maybe.
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gRegor My idea does make it harder to re-create a past version of the recipe exactly
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btrem [aciccarello]: And you link to the earlier, base recipe?
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[aciccarello] If it's my own recipe, I usually just update that page. If it's someone else recipe I've altered, I'll link to it.
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[aciccarello] But most of my variations aren't very exact
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[KevinMarks] a lot of cookbooks I have do subroutine calls eg having ingredients like "1 cup fried shallots (see page 9)", could you restructure your recipe like that, and maybe transclude bits of it?
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btrem I'm probably over thinking this. I've been doing this for a couple of years now. I'm diligent about posting each jar's recipe, and then reviewing it. But I can't honestly say that I consult it to decide what to do when I'm starting a new jar. :-/
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[aciccarello] I can relate to the over-thinking piece 😅
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[aciccarello] Here's an example of a more loosely defined recipe (no amounts) that has a section on optional variations https://www.ciccarello.me/recipes/2021/01/29/change-your-life-chicken/
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btrem [KevinMarks]: This is veering toward #dev. I use 11ty to build my site. I dunno. I can link to previous recipes. Maybe I can auto copy bits.
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[aciccarello] I would probably stick with links to start
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btrem [aciccarello]++ that is at least worth considering.
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Loqi [aciccarello] has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (23 in all channels)
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[qubyte] One of my pet peeves is not having everything in one place when following a recipe. Having to refer to more than one page (physical or otherwise) really raises kitchen stress (thus my vote for repetition).
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[qubyte] But absolutely link recipes together etc.
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btrem [qubyte]: I can sympathize with that.
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[aciccarello] I've been playing around with showing amount in the recipe instructions so you don't have to look back to the list https://www.ciccarello.me/recipes/2024/01/16/chicken-ramen-noodles/
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btrem As I said, when making a new jar of pickles, or sauerkraut, or whatever, I don't usually need to consult a recipe. I go from memory.
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[aciccarello] The tool I'm using (cooklang) doesn't have the best formatting thought
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[aciccarello] *though
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[aciccarello] What is cooklang
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "cooklang" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "cooklang is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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btrem My problem is that I want to review each jar separately.
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[qubyte] I also want recipes to be more like schedules. Maybe with a gantt chart like thing in there. That way I know what’s on the go and what’s coming up at a glance. I keep meaning to do this in some SVG with some recipes I’ve perfected the process of.
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[KevinMarks] Here's an example from the Dishoom cookbook: Tamarind drizzle: This is used as a dressing for vada pau (page 174), salads and chaats. To make it, simply mix 4 tsp chilli drizzle with 3 tsp tamarind chutney (page 377). Makes 35ml
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[KevinMarks] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2024/03/indieweb-20240326-201645-pxl_20240326_201436393.jpg
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btrem [aciccarello]: I just clicked your "how to respond." Good idea to provide an email options. Might have to nick that.
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btrem [KevinMarks]: [tantek] mentioned the idea of recipe components. But I'm not repeating a sauce that used on multiple dishes. It's a million variations on a fermenting theme.
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[aciccarello] Go for it!
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btrem [aciccarello]++ for the email idea.
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[KevinMarks] Also a "simply" example that assumes that you have already made 2 sauces that take 45 minutes and 2 hours respectively (I sometimes think this cookbook is designed to make you decide to visit the Dishoom restaurant instead)
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btrem Only one kudo per person per day, apparently. :-D
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[aciccarello] Implementation details in #indieweb-dev
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Loqi [qubyte] [aciccarello]: it seems like this conversation is more appropriate for #indieweb-dev (SVG, implementation)
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[qubyte] 😑
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btrem Sooner or later, Loqi was bound to complain. :-D
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[KevinMarks] [aciccarello]++
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Loqi [aciccarello] has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (24 in all channels)
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btrem I like the fact that was offering to move the #dev, but still got scolded. :-D
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btrem [aciccarello]
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[aciccarello] haha, right?
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btrem Ah Loqi. Always ready with the ruler.
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[qubyte] It took a little while to moan at me there. Usually loqi is a little less tolerant of me.
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btrem I have scores of ferment recipes on my site. So many, that I'm in the process of spinning them off into a new site (probably a subdomain of my main site). Hence why I'm asking. While moving them, I'm wondering if there's a better way.
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btrem But while there are scores, many are mostly (sometimes exactly) the same. Last summer, I did a lot of fermented whole pattypan squash.
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[aciccarello] It almost sounds like you're beyond a recipe. It's almost like you are tracking inventory or logging activity.
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[aciccarello] What is food?
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Loqi Food is a post type that represents eating or drinking particular food or drink https://indieweb.org/food
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[aciccarello] That's not quite the same but might have some inspiration.
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btrem [aciccarello]: In fact, one recent addition to the site was creating a feed of current ferments, that is, ferments that I made but haven't yet opened. And I named the page "inventory"!
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btrem I didn't complete that page, but it will most certainly be a feature of the new spin off site. Likely that the inventory will be the home page.
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btrem The food page might be something to try to track my wine inventory. I have a small collection, some going on twenty years old.
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btrem But I have to say I *hate* the idea of taking photos of food. Because I work in a restaurant, and we (my co-workers and I) find it annoying when social media intrudes on us.
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btrem Like when I deliver plates to a customer, and the first thing they do is take a photo, for Instagram or whatever. I find it kind of sad, really.
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[aciccarello] I totally get that. I feel silly photographing my recipes.
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[aciccarello] But I try to have lower standards
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btrem It's disturbing to see a couple out for dinner, and *both* of them are on their phones instead of talking to each other. Updating their Facebook et. al. status instead of talking to the human being that's sitting /directly opposite/ them.
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[aciccarello] Yup
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btrem By contrast, I do take photos of my ferments, but that's really to track them.
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btrem And of course almost every restaurant employee **hates** Yelp.
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[aciccarello] One thing about my site not having the smoothest posting process is that I tend to wait till later to post.
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[aciccarello] I also consider that better for location privacy
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btrem My posting process is, like yours apparently, slow. I don't really understand micropub, and haven't taken the time to learn it yet. I'd explain why, but that's a discussion for #dev.
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btrem When I post photos, the location is automatically stripped out. I decide whether to manually add it in. I usually do, but I can make it as general as I want, e.g., "Seattle" instead of a precise address.
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[aciccarello] I did finally get IndieKit set up so I can post photos considerably faster but that doesn't work for recipes.
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[aciccarello] I've settled on defaulting to no location information
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[aciccarello] Or at least metadata. If I want to describe a location I put it in the description.
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btrem What is IndieKit
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Loqi Indiekit (GitHub repo) is “the little Node.js server with all the pieces needed to own your content and share it with the wider independent web” https://indieweb.org/Indiekit
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btrem Thanks, Loqi!
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Loqi you're welcome, btrem
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btrem Just found this via aaronpk 's site: https://www.troyhunt.com/thanks-fedex-this-is-why-we-keep-getting-phished/
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btrem The second to last sentence had me rotf.
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[tantek] btrem, from what you described I'm imagining a forking tree of variants of a recipe
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[tantek] this is the key flaw here: "they land smack bang in my SMS inbox"
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[tantek] don't use SMS for an inbox. full stop
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