#indieweb 2024-05-16
2024-05-16 UTC
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cophee [0x3b0b]: Ooo thanks!!
# cophee I’m thinking of doing a flowchart guide for options on my guide
# cophee to help people pick
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# cophee [0x3b0b]: yeah not sure if they're still running–just tried it out myself
# cophee another question -> are decentralised social media platforms considered a gateway to IndieWeb?
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# [Joe_Crawford] I think that’s a legit reading. Anything that allows user more overall self-determination tends to do that. Definitions of https://indieweb.org/Mastodon and https://indieweb.org/Bluesky (the two that come to mind when one thinks of decentralized social media in 2024) go into the ways they touch on IndieWeb and empower people to connect via their own sites.
# cophee [Joe_Crawford]: Awesome!!
# cophee I'm thinking of putting it in the flowchart for people who are still hesitant about getting a website
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[aciccarello] Interesting, the developer behind http://pine.blog is from San Diego. https://brianschrader.com/
# [aciccarello] I tried to look on his mastodon account for clues but didn't see anything
# [aciccarello] According to http://archive.org that message was put up on http://pine.blog between December 2023 and March 2024
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gRegor Yeah, Brian (pine.blog) and met funnily enough at /2020/Austin and found out we lived within a few miles of each other back here. Never got a chance to come to an HWC SD because pandemic, but he joined a few virtual events over the years
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# IWDiscord <cophee>
# cophee If anyone has other inputs!
# cophee HAHHA
# cophee Any specific reason? I've never used it heh
# cophee gRegor: OHNO
# cophee ok
# cophee let's not
# cophee LOL
# cophee thank you so much
# gRegor yeah, we redirect and list it on https://indieweb.org/Here_be_dragons :)
# cophee Great list to have
# cophee signups on micro.blog are still broken for me though ):
# cophee wing_wingpang_com_[d]: this error!
# cophee Oh!! It was a Discord reply
# cophee Let me resend the image
# IWDiscord <cophee>
# cophee Thank you!!
# cophee It's from Pangram Pangram 😄
# cophee Would anyone want their site to be featured on this page?
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# cophee capjamesg[d]: Will do!!!
# cophee I'll leave that section for now though–thinking it might be a better idea to let people think of ways they can create rather than what's already been made
# cophee But maybe have a links section elsewhere 🤔
# [Al_Abut] cophee/wingpang: I’m someone that took the route of Fediverse being a gateway drug to Indieweb, so that’s totally valid! I think what the “just make a website” approach misses for a lot of people is the important human element of stoking the desire to contribute in the first place. That’s something Mastodon did for me last year - first it rekindled my interest in any kind of online conversation, then reconnected with my old blogging b
# [Al_Abut] [Joe_Crawford], then started reading blog posts again in a feed reader, by the end of the year I started going to the homebrew zooms and the indieweb camp event in San Diego. At that point the itch to start blogging again was unbearable.
# [Al_Abut] I can see http://micro.blog being a better and shorter version of the path I took - do all your reading and writing in the same place without the hassle of setting up a blog or the pressure to write long form.
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# cophee Yes! This is the results I got from my survey (97 people so far, 43 who are not on the Indie Web)
# cophee [Al_Abut]: In response to this
# cophee whoops it's 34.4% for strongly disagree
# cophee Whoops the pie chart was wrong
# cophee Let me regenerate it
# IWDiscord <cophee>
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# cophee 43/97 surveyees aren't currently on the IndieWeb
# cophee but 87/97 are interested!
# cophee Also double oops the title should read "I post a lot of my own content on social media"
# [Al_Abut] Fantastic experiment cophee! Also I wanted to give you a more detailed critique of the Figma file if you wanted more feedback from a designer, let me know if you still need it for the school project. Love the energy either way.
# cophee [Al_Abut]: Sure thing! Feel free to leave some comments =]
# cophee I'd love to improve on it after I hand it in (due in 3 days 😱 )
# cophee pcarrier[d]: sure thing!
# IWDiscord <cophee>
# cophee oops graph not generated
# IWDiscord <cophee>
# cophee pretty similar in terms of numbers, but even less people posting who aren't indiewebbers
# cophee same
# cophee maybe a lot more people lurk/consume content than produce them
# cophee i'll publish the spreadsheet after i anonymise it when i finish the assignment so you guys can check it out too
# cophee =]
# [Al_Abut] People lurk for sure. Also called consuming or you know, just plain reading 🤣
# cophee [Al_Abut]: 😂 true
# cophee a lot more effort to create than to read/consume
# cophee agreed! it's a lot more rewarding
# [Al_Abut] Like the anti-procrastination timers built into HN
# [Al_Abut] I’m almost never on there for super long periods of time like used to be back in the day, so I forget it’s there and laugh when it kicks in.
# [Al_Abut] That was also the premise behind the RescueTime desktop app, before they abandoned the individual productivity angle and followed the enterprise money into being a generic time tracking app for work.
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SM" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "SM is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# 
[tantek] sm is /social_media
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# [Al_Abut] Hahaha, love the drug analogies. Especially since we had a fun discussion about Trainspotting at HWC EU yesterday. Perfect timing :pinched_fingers:
# [Al_Abut] Speaking of static sites, I also really love the “just make a single html page” approach.
# cophee [tantek]: Thank you for IndieWeb
# [Al_Abut] And then grow that page and add others and etc, don’t worry about apps or complicated software to create your pages.
# [Al_Abut] Worked for me for like a decade
# cophee [tantek]: Thanks for the feedback! I'll make some changes to the chart =]
# cophee [tantek]: that would be omg.lol right? 😆
# cophee or do some simple html
# [Al_Abut] Yep! I still have to force myself to remember that indieweb does not necessarily mean blogging.
# [tantek] cophee, I think omg.lol is more like http://micro.blog
# cophee [tantek]: Oooo ok!!!
# cophee i really like their branding
# cophee it's so cute
# [Al_Abut] This Louis guy is my current web nerd equivalent of a punk rock poster up on my teenage bedroom wall. So DIY it hurts and yet the work is also gorgeous. Just plain HTML/CSS can be so fun and slick.
# cophee So would Blogger be easier to set up than Wordpress?
# cophee Or same issues?
# [Al_Abut] If you’re ok with a slightly dated look and just want to put a lot of words up, then blogger’s fine and doesn’t have wordpress’ drawbacks of plugins, maintenance, security, speed, etc.
# [Al_Abut] It’s a retro choice that I kinda respect actually!
# [Al_Abut] Blogger was like the OG version of a static site generator, it would ftp files to your own host. Not sure that’s an option anymore, it might be all just plain google hosting at the http://blogger.com domain.
# cophee pcarrier[d]: Maybe blogger wouldn't be the best option in this case?
# cophee For longevity
# cophee But if they already have a blogger site
# cophee Ooo okay awesome
# cophee I'll keep it on the list
# [Al_Abut] It feels like one of the dividing lines in what to choose is whether you want to learn or already know html, vs whether it’s just about the info or writing
# [Al_Abut] On the one hand it’s empowering and fun to learn how to make a website, but to others it’s like saying a driver’s license requires you to learn how to build an engine.
# cophee [Al_Abut]: yeah this is big
# [Al_Abut] I should point out a positive of WP that came up yesterday - you can easily post from mobile.
# [Al_Abut] As opposed to the static site stuff I do and was just advocating.
# [Al_Abut] I think a LOT of corporate social media usage comes from them having slick mobile apps that encourage people to quickly capture moments as they’re happening, rather than waiting to document it later on desktop like it’s some kind of book report
# [Al_Abut] [marksuth] demoed his mobile setup with Laraval (sp?) and helpfully made his site’s repo into public.
# [Al_Abut] So cool to see his photo posts from the stands at a soccer stadium
# Loqi [preview] [Mark Sutherland] LCFC 5-0 win LCFC 5-0 win
King Power Stadium, Leicester UK
It’s the football, watch the football, the constant never ending football! Ther... https://marksuth.dev/storage/photos/HrtoE1fi3SPcCRq1QPDe57atunhT5eSHh6CmqNRk.jpg
# cophee [Al_Abut]: that is true
# cophee my website's made with 11ty + netlify cms
# cophee only reason why I got the cms was for mobile :"]
# cophee but the mobile layout wasn't responsive and I had to get this on top:
# [Al_Abut] Oh that’s cool, I use netlify too but haven’t played with their CMS.
# cophee @[tantek]
# cophee Updated the flow chart! Will add the dev route after I submit my assignment since I feel like it might take me down some rabbitholes
# [Al_Abut] Very helpful!
# [Al_Abut] What’s the link for Mirror?
# cophee mirror.xyz
# cophee !
# cophee Oh wait
# cophee OOPS
# cophee https://mirror.xyz/
# cophee But this is web3
# cophee not really indieweb
# cophee lemme remove it
# cophee thanks for pointing it out!
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# cophee [tantek]: I personally love Tumbl
# cophee [edit] [tantek]: I personally love Tumblr
# cophee and neocities
# cophee people are so fun on there
# cophee and i feel that the anonymous side of it keeps a lot of the oldweb vibes
# cophee I heard the parent company is selling data to ChatGPT from a friend doing their project on tumblr though :\
# cophee but it does seem like there is an opt-out option
# cophee [tantek]: I haven't used it myself but front page doesn't seem that bad (just a big focus on cryptocurrency, but also some really nice articles here and there)
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# [tantek] Tumblr << How to opt out of training AI: https://help.tumblr.com/privacy-options/#h_01HQP3KFE5TB8MQE0JRW29W86T
# Loqi ok, I added "How to opt out of training AI: https://help.tumblr.com/privacy-options/#h_01HQP3KFE5TB8MQE0JRW29W86T" to the "See Also" section of /Tumblr https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=95287&oldid=90007
# Loqi ok, I added "^ <blockquote>"This option will prevent your blog’s content, even when reblogged, from being shared with our licensed network of content and research partners, including those that train AI models."</blockquote>" to the "See Also" section of /Tumblr https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=95288&oldid=95287
# Loqi Small Web (or smallweb) is a term used in a 1999 article, a hosting service, two consulting services, a May 2020 article, a Aug 2020 blog post that describes (without citing) a subset of IndieWeb principles, most recently a HackerNews summary of Gemini, and has recent variants smol web (smolweb) and smol net (smolnet) https://indieweb.org/small_web
# [byJP] ↩️ I would absolutely _love_ a tool for the UK like this. (Or even just London). Tonsky’s design principles are awesome — no nonsense, no clicking through — just what you need in a user-accessible way.
# [byJP] ↩️ I also love the idea of “local first” — design it all to work offline with cached data — but get incrementally better with more recent data. (and/or only less useful the further in time you get from you cached copy)
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# cophee [tantek]: yes you can!
# cophee using your own domain would cost a tiny bit but it’s a good taste of the small web
# cophee This was the first site I made 😄
# cophee https://bomby.neocities.org/
# cophee there's this too https://webmentions.neocities.org/
# cophee + I wonder who made this one haha https://indieweb.neocities.org/
# cophee maybe i should add a flow to the chart for people who want to start coding
# cophee my journey to indieweb was:
# cophee - university lecture about the oldweb -> neocities afte seeing geocities in the lecture -> indieweb (somehow)
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# cophee ooh yes but you can use your own domain for $5/month
# cophee yes!
# cophee not personally
# cophee but
# cophee https://melonking.net/
# cophee their home page has a bunch of sites that are hosted through them
# cophee but most are static HTML pages
# cophee I think sorting by neocities supporters would show more people with their own domains
# cophee [edit] I think sorting by neocities supporters would show more people with their own domains
# cophee ^ this guide is awesome
# Loqi NeoCities is a free website hosting silo in the spirit of defunct silo GeoCities (Yahoo shutdown in 2009) that looks like a stepping stone to getting started on the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/NeoCities
# cophee I think so too! It's more like a hosting server
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# cophee [Murray]: It's just an FTP server when I used it!
# cophee i think you just upload a .zip file of HTML/CSS/JS
# IWDiscord <cophee>
# cophee yes! can download it + mount to computer
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# cophee capjamesg[d]: That is a scary future indeed
# ryokagriffin > it was hard to escape the feeling that the web as we know it is entering a kind of managed decline
# ryokagriffin Agree. but also, the smallweb/indieweb is still there
# ryokagriffin A silly metaphor is like a solar system - a ball of dust at first, chaos, billions of lumps of rock form, which then merge into bigger but fewer bodies (generally). These merge into planets, a star forms in the centre. I feel like maybe the little rocks are like websites, many have merged onto platforms which continue to get swallowed up and absorbed into other platforms and soon there will be a few dozen huge platforms (planets) that r
# ryokagriffin It's sad to see the consolidation but it's kinda inevitable IMO. However if regulation appears preventing you from hosting stuff in your own way (like, death of net nuetrality for example) then I'll be worrying more and more.
# IWDiscord <ryokagriffin>
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# cophee thinking will turn this guy into a secret link to my notes page when i get it set up 🤭
gerben, bterry, Guest6_, [jeremycherfas], [snarfed], Guest6, jeremycherfas, jacky, bloot7, petermolnar, sebbu2, rjomara580, ancarda, shreyasminocha, chenghiz__, Guest1350_, wasp_, anarchivist_, javivi, darreninthenet, rvalue, arieh, vikanezrimaya, eb, mcepl, darylsun, victorneo, toastal, Saphire, capjamesg, suki, paulgrmn, oxtyped, root, streety, RapidRotator, mald0r0r, Saphir, timdream, [Paul_Robert_Ll], gRegor, sohrab, ttybitnik, [KevinMarks], sp1ff and [0x3b0b] joined the channel
# cophee also this:
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# Loqi EchoFeed is a service to cross post from feeds to other services and includes support for sending Webmentions https://indieweb.org/EchoFeed